MZR DISI Heat Management

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Alpha I see, but it looks like a PITA to install while requiring more of the driver's attention due to the lack of a thermostat switch. The benefit of that way is complete control anytime, but you'd have to be constantly monitoring coolant temps to know when to flip the switch. I'd rather just drive an know I'm at 200 or less at all times lol Cool work though!

you would be incorrect sir...let the master complete his work. I apologize for saying anything.

[box here] ----------> bluestreak's solution over here ---->

[Dano]

Originally Posted by erevlydeux The lack of it being plug-and-play is what detracts from its value in my eyes. Having to pull out your radiator fan assembly and scrape/solder to wires? Eek. I'm surprised that was the approach taken over tricking the on-board fan controller into thinking it needed to be on.

mod cars much?

Cobb couldn't/wouldn't do it...but hey feel free to take a shot.

IMO Dave is on v 1.0...just like the MAP sensor upgrade of year ago....we all spliced a new bosch sensor into the OEM harness....then mattjackson came up with a plug-n-play harness and the rest is history.

patience is a virtue..but knock yourself out....we can't have too many players developing new go fast products...

[erevlydeux]

Originally Posted by Dano mod cars much? Cobb couldn't/wouldn't do it...but hey feel free to take a shot. IMO Dave is on v 1.0...just like the MAP sensor upgrade of year ago....we all spliced a new bosch sensor into the OEM harness....then mattjackson came up with a plug-n-play harness and the rest is history. patience is a virtue..but knock yourself out....we can't have too many players developing new go fast products...

The problem seems super approachable. If I had the time/access to tear apart the shrouds and what not, I wouldn't be posting here asking for pictures. I get home too late in the day and this stuff is my escape when I want to take my mind off work.

It's clear to see you have a soft spot for BlueStreak and the things he makes, and that's totally fine. He's not the only person that can sit down and create a solution for a problem, though, so yes.. patience is a virtue, but if I have the ability to make a plug-and-play harness, why wouldn't I?!

[Dano]

didn't say you shouldn't....my point is that things are not as easy as they seem on the surface.

we have had zero fan control since 2006...Cobb attempted it in 2010 and failed due to part of the fan control being outside of the ECU. I am sure the processor cycles would have totally overloaded our 32 bit ECU yet Mazda in their wisdom choose to choose an external controller.

please do jump into the game.

[Voltwings]

When me and my buddy are talking shit at the gym we have a phrase we coined, but i feel it applies here: "Dont talk about it, be about it."

[erevlydeux]

Originally Posted by Voltwings When me and my buddy are talking shit at the gym we have a phrase we coined, but i feel it applies here: "Dont talk about it, be about it."

Trying to pass out a Busta Rhymes line as your own? Tsk tsk.

Popped the hood yesterday and got some pictures and measurements off the connectors. All my searching so far hasn't turned up much of anything. Gonna see if I can send the information over to Ballenger Motorsports and hopefully they will be able to identify it.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by erevlydeux Trying to pass out a Busta Rhymes line as your own? Tsk tsk. Popped the hood yesterday and got some pictures and measurements off the connectors. All my searching so far hasn't turned up much of anything. Gonna see if I can send the information over to Ballenger Motorsports and hopefully they will be able to identify it.

He's not a good enough rapper for me to acknowledge haha, but in all seriousness, it would be cool if yall could make something happen with this.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Dano didn't say you shouldn't....my point is that things are not as easy as they seem on the surface. we have had zero fan control since 2006...Cobb attempted it in 2010 and failed due to part of the fan control being outside of the ECU. I am sure the processor cycles would have totally overloaded our 32 bit ECU yet Mazda in their wisdom choose to choose an external controller. please do jump into the game.

Versatune does not have the ability to control the fan either.

It must be really difficult to get the ecu to jive with the fan controller.

[Mizzle]

I'm curious... has anyone considered going to a 70/30 water/coolant mix with something like Water Wetter added in? Tests have shown temperatures to remain about the same overall, but increases in horsepower and decreases in the psi required to make it which seems to indicate a reduction in hot spots inside the engine.

[phate]

I JUST switched to a 75/25 (water/coolant) mix while I was adding the fan controller in the upper radiator hose. It has worked well in the past with other cars, so I'm doing it again (no water wetter, though).

I'm trying to finish the controller wiring tonight, just need to splice into the fan motor wires. Everything else is done.

[Ziggo]

Que?

I used about half the recommended fl22 the last time I flushed. IIRC it was 3gal of di water and 1 gal of fl22 concentrate. No water wetter.

Zero impact on power though, I just wanted extra heat capacity in the system. Water is a much better heat transfer fluid than coolant with the only downsides that it's a shit lubricant for the water pump and it has high surface tension, causing large bubbles when it boils.

Water wetter breaks down the surface tension of the water, making it less likley to bubble when if it starts boiling around hot spots and is also not as slick as coolant when dumped on the track so some track orgs, particularly motorcycle ones, require it's use instead of coolant.

Coolant does the same thing except it's like ice when dumped, so I have always been a bit dubious of people dumping water wetter into water/coolant mixtures.

Zigatapatalka

[Dano]

sold!

I'll go with the 75/25 during my motor swap this weekend.

[erevlydeux]

Ziggo; hit the nail on the head, but just for people who enjoy reading, here's the white paper by Redline for Water Wetter's performance: http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...ech%20Info.pdf

It specifically addresses heat transfer, cavitation and slipperiness. Yay for water.

[Ziggo]

Make sure to get the concentrate, only available from ford. I think it's part VC-10A2

The premix is a ripoff, mazda wants more for a gallon of premix than ford charges for a gallon of concentrate.

The other concern of course is the freezing point, at a 50/50 mixture it's ~-30F, at the 25/75 mixture it's ~10F

My car is garaged and there have been two nights in the last 3 winters that it's been below 10F so no big whoop for me, but it's something to keep in mind.

Zigatapatalka

[Lex]

The issue here I believe is that a lot of the control is in the fan controller box.

[Dano]

fairly sure Advanced Auto has the concentrate...its Peak IIRC...blue jug...99% sure but thanks for the clarification.

edit: nevermind that stuff is just some universal coolant that can be mixed with any other type.

Originally Posted by Ziggo Make sure to get the concentrate, only available from ford. I think it's part VC-10A2 The premix is a ripoff, mazda wants more for a gallon of premix than ford charges for a gallon of concentrate. The other concern of course is the freezing point, at a 50/50 mixture it's ~-30F, at the 25/75 mixture it's ~10F My car is garaged and there have been two nights in the last 3 winters that it's been below 10F so no big whoop for me, but it's something to keep in mind. Zigatapatalka

[Todd98SE]

I'm finally taking my Gen2 radiator up to AWR when I do the clutch in 2 weeks. Anthony will take measurements and see what he can do for a Gen2 radiator.

[Mizzle]

Originally Posted by phate I JUST switched to a 75/25 (water/coolant) mix while I was adding the fan controller in the upper radiator hose. It has worked well in the past with other cars, so I'm doing it again (no water wetter, though). I'm trying to finish the controller wiring tonight, just need to splice into the fan motor wires. Everything else is done.

What is the capacity of our system?

[phate]

Originally Posted by Mizzle What is the capacity of our system?

The 6 took between 1-2 gallons. Idk without looking at the manual. I mix in a jug before pouring it in to make it easy.

[silvapain]

I believe the spec on the 3 is just under 2 gallons. It took me under 2 gallons to fill my cooling system after my engine swap as well.

[ms3blackmica]

I've been running a 30/70 mix with purple ice from RP since I've bought the car new. At 68k now no issues. It helps a lot in the summer I can attest to that.

I flush the coolant every ~15-20k miles just for good maintenance.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[superskaterxes]

FL22 is just some long life BS marketing coolant. Prestone non-pre-mixed is just fine.

[ms3blackmica]

I've been using prestone full concentrate for 3.5 years now.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[phate]

Prestone here, as well.

[Mizzle]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes FL22 is just some long life BS marketing coolant. Prestone non-pre-mixed is just fine.

Not at all even true. The makeup is completely different. In fact, Prestone says to use Extended Life coolant in cars that call for coolants that are silicate, phosphate, and borate free. Funny how they blame Europe's water hardness for this spec lol, but whatever - you shouldn't use regular coolant.

Also, FL22 doesn't have 2-EHA in it.. which is part of why DEXCOOL is a big pile of shit.

Issue Many Are Ignoring: Most Coolants Contain 2-EHA (which 'eats' silicone) - RX8Club.com

p.s.
Some "long-life," coolants rely on borates, but aluminum and borate don't get along.

[jmhinkle]

If you have an FL-22 Mazda, which they all were not, you should not run Prestone at all. It has the EHA-2 in it. Peak long life is the tricky one because it has never been proven either way, but is believed to have it based on who makes it and other products they make with it listed. I've seen it put in Mazda's without issues though. There is a Zerex for Japanese cars which works or get the FL-22 from Ford because they sell it cheaper. They are H-OAT based coolants. I do not have one of these FL-22 cars. My 6 was void of all stickers, while Dustin has them on his car. This was common practice on the Speed6 although there seems to be more FL-22 than not. I've always topped off or refilled with the Peak stuff to this point. When I tore my car apart for rebuild the coolant system was clean and I never had EGT problems. Going forward, H-OAT is much better for the system than the other chems so I'll probably swap in FL-22 from Ford when I put the car back together.

[802MS3]

I swapped in my Koyorad OEM fit radiator last week before I went to MNM. Also filled up with 25% Zerex Asian coolant, 75% water. The radiator fits great, but I do think it pushed the fan back ~1/8" or so. I have the cp-e fmic with the 2.25" IC pipes, so if you have any pipes bigger than that, and that run between the block and the fan shroud, it may cause issues. The koyorad is a really nice piece though, fits perfectly.

The fan issue will be figured out soon, for proper cooling after we run down the 1320 and are waiting in line again...now, where can we get a thermostat that is fully cracked at 190° for the road course?

[ms3blackmica]

I deff hear you guys on the FL-22 statements.

I flushed my coolant around 15k/3.5 years ago for the first time and its seen the prestone/purple ice (equivalent to water wetter) mix ever since.

No issues up at 68k (Too late now right? lol). Everything is fine and i'll be flushing again soon for normal maintanence.

[super_pablo_]

Originally Posted by Mizzle I'm curious... has anyone considered going to a 70/30 water/coolant mix with something like Water Wetter added in? Tests have shown temperatures to remain about the same overall, but increases in horsepower and decreases in the psi required to make it which seems to indicate a reduction in hot spots inside the engine.

No fucking clue what my mix is, but I flushed my radiator when i replaced the hoses, without flushing the engine (yes, because im lazy, fuck you), then added water and water wetter... I still get coolant temps around 235 on track with a TMIC... :/

[phate]

Originally Posted by erevlydeux If you still have that radiator fan of yours out, you should check if there is a part number on the 3-pin connector that goes into the fan controller. I'd love try and find some mating pieces to build a harness and dink around on it.

What all do you want pics of?

[erevlydeux]

Originally Posted by phate What all do you want pics of?

I ended up nabbing a bunch of pics on my own, but thank for the offer, brother.

[Tomas]

Is 2-EHA always listed in the ingredients label? Or can a coolant have it and not list it?

I swapped to the Advance auto pars advance cool and although the label says "compare to dexcool" the label does not list 2-EHA. Only ethylene glycol and diethylene glycol.

EDIT: Ok, I have an older container of Advance Auto parts antifreeze and just looked at the label. It lists Ehylene Glycol, diethylene glycol, Sodium 2-ehtyl hexanoate and Sodium neodecanoate.

Given that the yellow, standard formula does list 2-EHA and the orange, "advance cool" formula does not (even though it says compare to dexcool) I am going to presume the orange formula is acceptable.

[Dano]

hey does anyone know what temp our thermostats are? I just called AutoZone and they list a 180* but I was thinking ours were 190??

[Ziggo]

ours crack at 180ish but dont fully open till 200 or so.

[Dano]

Guess thats the reason for the dual springs.


Tappin

[silvapain]

I posted a picture of the shop manual on MSF somewhere that shows when the thermostat fully opens. I want to say it's 207 or 217 or something.


So useful. I know.

[Celestspeed3]

Took a look at coolant temps today. The pu seems to stay at 185F on the highway. I'm curious if there is a part number difference between the thermostats between the gens.

[jdmage_mx5]

It is around 70 degrees outside and my Pu was running around 171 degrees while taking 4-5 wot 4 gear logs.

[802MS3]

Originally Posted by silvapain I posted a picture of the shop manual on MSF somewhere that shows when the thermostat fully opens. I want to say it's 207 or 217 or something. So useful. I know.

[Celestspeed3]

Is that the same spec for the pu ?