MZR DISI Heat Management

[Ziggo]

I tested mine in a pot of water to confirm that that old thermostat was bad. That's where I was pulling my numbers from.

Zigatapatalka

[802MS3]

Originally Posted by Celestspeed3 Is that the same spec for the pu ?

yea I'm pretty sure they are still the same. I looked up the 2013 to make sure, and it says the exact same temps. Must still be using the same thermostat.

[jracer]

One of these vendors could have a hot product if they could make a pug-n-play fan controle unit ..
Some sort of box with a pig tail in/out kinda deal with some type of potentiometer to set the on temp .
I bet they would sell tons of them !!
Maybe someone could tag the all vendors ?? Or if one of you tech heads could design and make one ..

[Dano]

Originally Posted by jracer One of these vendors could have a hot product if they could make a pug-n-play fan controle unit .. Some sort of box with a pig tail in/out kinda deal with some type of potentiometer to set the on temp . I bet they would sell tons of them !! Maybe someone could tag the all vendors ?? Or if one of you tech heads could design and make one ..

ahem...that is already in process I think all is done except the PNP which hopefully isn't that much more work.

@BlueStreak;

[timjs]

The PCM has built-in activation functions. With the IDS scan tool, you can activate EGR, the cooling fans, wastegate solenoid, fuel pump, shut off injectors, ect with a click of the mouse.

I'd imagine a module that utilizes this direct functionality would be awesome.

[dot584]

In atr there is no control for radiator fan I'm pretty sure. If that other scan tool can do it then does that mean Cobb should be able to give us control?

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

[ms3blackmica]

I often let my friend borrow my Dashhawk for his GTO when he goes to the track.

The GM cars have the ability to turn the fans manually ON and OFF right from the dashhawk.

Oh how simple...

[Dano]

Originally Posted by timjs The PCM has built-in activation functions. With the IDS scan tool, you can activate EGR, the cooling fans, wastegate solenoid, fuel pump, shut off injectors, ect with a click of the mouse. I'd imagine a module that utilizes this direct functionality would be awesome.

at that point you are trying to hack your IDS tool to find those functions to then trigger them in the ECU..not sure its worth all that trouble.

external circuit is much easier

[Alpha]

We need a PNP controller, stock connector based "Plug in and drive" solution for all the spoiled, non soldering asses like myself

Who's with me? Haha!

[Dano]

I haven't looked at the controller to fan connection but IIRC it is not a connector. The harness does plug in to the fan controller but the controller to fan connection is just a couple of wires. The solution entails changing all of that so no complete PNP is possible.

part of Dave's circuit bypasses the controller while it also allows for the OEM controller to function.

Dave can elaborate/correct me if I am wrong.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Dano ahem...that is already in process I think all is done except the PNP which hopefully isn't that much more work. @BlueStreak;

I've often played with the idea of pulling the factory plastic cover with the fan and just placing two high volume fans in its place. Being that im in South Texas "winter" here is like mid 40's haha so im not too terribly worried about my coolant freezing at a stop, I am however worried about it sky rocketing mid summer in triple digit heat. One of the main reasons I haven't yanked that shit out yet is because I wasn't quite sure how id Frankenstein the factory fan controller into the new fans, but it sounds like I can use Bluestreak's little controller in conjunction for a cleaner install...

On a side / unrelated note, I have also contemplated yanking the coolant feed to the oil cooler mounted on the filter. To me it just doesn't make much sense to have 200* coolant "cooling" my oil ... our car has way too damn many coolant hoses any ways haha.

[802MS3]

Originally Posted by Voltwings I've often played with the idea of pulling the factory plastic cover with the fan and just placing two high volume fans in its place. Being that im in South Texas "winter" here is like mid 40's haha so im not too terribly worried about my coolant freezing at a stop, I am however worried about it sky rocketing mid summer in triple digit heat. One of the main reasons I haven't yanked that shit out yet is because I wasn't quite sure how id Frankenstein the factory fan controller into the new fans, but it sounds like I can use Bluestreak's little controller in conjunction for a cleaner install... On a side / unrelated note, I have also contemplated yanking the coolant feed to the oil cooler mounted on the filter. To me it just doesn't make much sense to have 200* coolant "cooling" my oil ... our car has way too damn many coolant hoses any ways haha.

NJSPEED3 hacked up his fan shroud to connect a second fan. The fan he used is posted towards the top of the thread.

My HTA3586 build

[MattJackson86]

So all this talk of fan controllers etc, how is turning the fan on at a lower temp going to help cool the engine when at speed? Seems to me the fan will help when low speed or stopped, but track days at speed I don't see our fan producing any more cooling power. Are we going down the wrong path trying to get the fan to turn on when in reality a second fan like @NJSPEED3 or a thermostat that cracks fully open sooner would be better?

[phate]

The fan is definitely for low speed or stopped operation.

[erevlydeux]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 So all this talk of fan controllers etc, how is turning the fan on at a lower temp going to help cool the engine when at speed? Seems to me the fan will help when low speed or stopped, but track days at speed I don't see our fan producing any more cooling power. Are we going down the wrong path trying to get the fan to turn on when in reality a second fan like @NJSPEED3 or a thermostat that cracks fully open sooner would be better?

Originally Posted by phate The fan is definitely for low speed or stopped operation.

I wouldn't totally agree. Think about Auto-X. You're working the engine and the gearbox HARD but you're doing a lot of turning and aren't getting too much straightaway airflow. Running the fans would help here.

On an actual track, they wouldn't help as much, sure, but again, you're going for consistent cooling. Getting up to 100mph on a back straightaway sure does help for cooling... but what about when you're weaving through chicanes and incline changes and are only going 40 or 50mph? The fans will help for those intermissions.

If the average cooling efficiency is higher from running the fans, then the mod has served its purpose.

[Todd98SE]

I have seen previous research showing that over a certain speed having the fans come on can decrease cooling efficiency. This was on a FWD SR20 engine and each car is different but it's something to keep in mind.

[dot584]

So fans would help at lower speeds and ducting would work at high speed. Should be able to maximize our radiators efficiency when using both.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE I have seen previous research showing that over a certain speed having the fans come on can decrease cooling efficiency. This was on a FWD SR20 engine and each car is different but it's something to keep in mind.

I actually was thinking of this as i was scrolling down reading. Basically it seems to me that there would come a point where the air would naturally pass through faster on its own than with a fan on, and at that point it would become a "restriction" by just getting in the way and stopping air from passing though? Similar to those Ebay electric superchargers you know?

New Electric Intake supercharger Turbo All Vehicles MPG HP Intake Turbocharger | eBay

[aggierandy]

Thoughts to increase cooling capacity:
Speed up coolant, remove restrictions to air flow, more water/less antifreeze in coolant, thicker core or a copper/brass radiator (for you rich guys).

[erevlydeux]

I mean, if we're talking about advanced fan controllers and all that type of stuff... you could always turn off the fans once you hit a certain speed and turn them back on against once you're below a certain speed.

[timjs]

They spin from the air flowing through them anyways..

[Todd98SE]

Originally Posted by aggierandy Thoughts to increase cooling capacity: Speed up coolant, remove restrictions to air flow, more water/less antifreeze in coolant, thicker core or a copper/brass radiator (for you rich guys).

Seal up any and all gaps around the radiator to front bumper fascia. Extend the front splitter and seal any gaps between the splitter surface and bumper opening.

[aggierandy]

Just to be clear, are we more concerned with low speed/idle cooling than high speed cooling?

[super_pablo_]

slightly unrelated to current topic, but relevant to thread...

Basic info, but for what its worth, this weekend I did parallel comparisons of running on track with full blast heat and no heat and I saw about 12-14 degree difference (EDIT: in coolant temperatures)...

Its not super hot here in AZ yet, but at least in the dry AZ weather, full blast heat is definitely worth it.
In the city traffic, ive noticed about 8-10 degrees difference as well (though it would be pretty fucking uncomfortable).

[Voltwings]

ok, I have a crazy idea and would just like to guys to run with me for a second...

Chances are most of us are here because we care about removing heat from the engine bay, so we've already done the basics, namely removing the rear weather stripping. What I would like to see (maybe) is some sort of box or enclosure attached to the hood (or block if possible) that went around the turbo and manifold. From there, allow ducting for the heat to be channeled out the rear weather stripping hole, or somehow otherwise out of the engine bay. Being that I have a Gen2, I have thought about rigging up the factory TMIC scoop to purely serve to evacuate the heat from the "manifold box" but since I don't run fog lights, I have also considered running ducting under the car and feeding fresh air to the bottom of the box to better evacuate heat. Maybe the inside of the box could be lined with DEI reflective tape, or the gold tape, or something, and it would basically reduce the heatsoak of the engine bay.

Obviously this is something that will be tricky to do since everyone has different FMIC set ups, as well as turbo and manifold set ups but it may be an idea. Granted too much heat trapped in there may cook the turbo and manifold but if someone can run with this idea id like to see where it may end up.

[Todd98SE]

Originally Posted by Voltwings ok, I have a crazy idea and would just like to guys to run with me for a second... Chances are most of us are here because we care about removing heat from the engine bay, so we've already done the basics, namely removing the rear weather stripping. What I would like to see (maybe) is some sort of box or enclosure attached to the hood (or block if possible) that went around the turbo and manifold. From there, allow ducting for the heat to be channeled out the rear weather stripping hole, or somehow otherwise out of the engine bay. Being that I have a Gen2, I have thought about rigging up the factory TMIC scoop to purely serve to evacuate the heat from the "manifold box" but since I don't run fog lights, I have also considered running ducting under the car and feeding fresh air to the bottom of the box to better evacuate heat. Maybe the inside of the box could be lined with DEI reflective tape, or the gold tape, or something, and it would basically reduce the heatsoak of the engine bay. Obviously this is something that will be tricky to do since everyone has different FMIC set ups, as well as turbo and manifold set ups but it may be an idea. Granted too much heat trapped in there may cook the turbo and manifold but if someone can run with this idea id like to see where it may end up.

It would probably be easier and more effective to manipulate the aero on the car for more efficient cooling. Splitter, undertray, etc.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE It would probably be easier and more effective to manipulate the aero on the car for more efficient cooling. Splitter, undertray, etc.

I get bored at work and fantasize I just appreciate you humoring me haha

Real talk though, I would like to make some sort of rig to block off the radiator and FMIC to channel more flow through.

[Code Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ziggo I ran the K04 as hard as I could with 11.2afr and 12* peak timing on the track and did not have issues with coolant temperature getting excessive, including a 105* day at willow springs this was the tune that was run at forum wars, approx 270 at the wheel. My temperatures didn't get excessive till I slapped the BNRS3 on and was able to rev it out to redline and still make power.

Sorry if I missed it, still reading through the thread, but did you do anything to reduce the temps the BNR generates?

On the k04, I was at 10.8 afr and 9* of peak timing, the BATs would occasionally exceed 160 but there was no KR.

On the BNR, I am at 11.4 afr with 11* peak timing, the BATs are usually above 160, and once they start climbing -- up to 195 -- I get KR.

Next weekend I will add 2 gallons of 104 gas and see whether this helps with the KR. If not, Justin made me a milder map where we start pulling timing once BATs exceed 120 and hopefully this will work. I have two more track weekends before I take a summer break, over the summer I plan to install the AWR radiator.

[Ziggo]

The short answer is I have an FMIC. After seeing BATs getting excessive on the track in CA I got the FMIC, which kept them under control on with the K04. I didn't actively monitor BATS on the track with the BNRS3, but I never got knock, and I never felt a noticeable loss of power, but I was also throwing a couple gallons of 104 in when I filled up just for peace of mind. I also never ran more than 20psi on the BNR on the track.

[JSmith]

Is anyone developing ducting for the sides of the engine bay? Seems like low hanging fruit to make the basic shaped sheets and cut to fit your mods.

[Celestspeed3]

In an effort to understand how much heat this car can take before it breaks. I took some data logging with the Solo on the track. I was at TMP last night for lapping. After 5 laps the car goes from 185 to 215. I decided to see how much I could push it after that. I stayed on track for a 25min session steady. By the end of the 5th lap temps where at 215 again, I stayed on for another 10 laps with temps from 215 to settling out at 230 around lap 10 and steady steady until lap 16. Did a co.pres soon test this morning before I went to work (motor cold) got 180, 185, 185, 185. I'm using stock plugs for reference and I will have to look up the tune details.

[Tomas]

^^^ Boost, timing, at what rpm you shift, and ambient temps if you could please.

[breakfasteatre]

oil or coolant temps? @Celestspeed3;

[YokiMazoku]

Maybe someone talked about this already and i missed it but corksport offers a radiator shroud to replace our stock ducting. Ive been running it for a week. Biggest difference is how quickly the temps drop at lower speeds. High speeds haven't noticed much of a change.

[JSmith]

Originally Posted by YokiMazoku Maybe someone talked about this already and i missed it but corksport offers a radiator shroud to replace our stock ducting. Ive been running it for a week. Biggest difference is how quickly the temps drop at lower speeds. High speeds haven't noticed much of a change.

Are you talking about this?

CORKSPORT 2007-2009 Mazdaspeed 3 Radiator Shroud

edit: whoops. Meant to PM.

[DSIT995]

Originally Posted by YokiMazoku Maybe someone talked about this already and i missed it but corksport offers a radiator shroud to replace our stock ducting. Ive been running it for a week. Biggest difference is how quickly the temps drop at lower speeds. High speeds haven't noticed much of a change.

I just ordered this myself.. At slower speeds my ECT's are always in the 210-217 range.

2 things that I would like to get done this summer for my car:

Ducting for the FMIC and Rad for the lower grille

And a simple fan override switch that would run the fan for however long I want

[Celestspeed3]

Originally Posted by Tomas ^^^ Boost, timing, at what rpm you shift, and ambient temps if you could please.

18psi
12°
6500rpm (7000rpm redline)
Weather details: ~73F, ~80% humidity, ~14.31psi

Alex those are coolant temps.

[YokiMazoku]

Originally Posted by JSmith Are you talking about this? CORKSPORT 2007-2009 Mazdaspeed 3 Radiator Shroud edit: whoops. Meant to PM.

Yes that is it.

[YokiMazoku]

Originally Posted by DSIT995 I just ordered this myself.. At slower speeds my ECT's are always in the 210-217 range. 2 things that I would like to get done this summer for my car: Ducting for the FMIC and Rad for the lower grille And a simple fan override switch that would run the fan for however long I want

When u get this installed you should do some testing. I would but im lazy. I actually did some but i dont think my results are accurate the drop in temp seems to be to high. My coolant temps use to be about the same now with the shroud i dare say they are about 200 -210. With speeds around 20-30mph. will still get up to 220 range if your doing lots of stop and go tho. But will drop much faster. At least that's what i noticed. Definitely made a difference dont be alarmed when u dont hear your fan go off everytime you get out of your car lol.

[DSIT995]

Originally Posted by YokiMazoku When u get this installed you should do some testing. I would but im lazy. I actually did some but i dont think my results are accurate the drop in temp seems to be to high. My coolant temps use to be about the same now with the shroud i dare say they are about 200 -210. With speeds around 20-30mph. will still get up to 220 range if your doing lots of stop and go tho. But will drop much faster. At least that's what i noticed. Definitely made a difference dont be alarmed when u dont hear your fan go off everytime you get out of your car lol.

Good idea.. I'm going to paint the ducting today, so I'll get some logs with the stock TMIC shrouding in place going 20mph 30mph 40mph. At those speeds my ECT's have never dropped always just stay the same or go up..

Will post up the differences after logs are done

Edit: its only mid 60's here now so my tests will have to wait until its hot again..