MZR DISI Ringland Failures

[Lex]

Originally Posted by taf0422 Still waiting for a diagnosis from pablo guys. Was supposed to get some pictures yesterday of her but nothing yet so as soon as I get some goodies of the possible failure I will update!!

Edge of the seat stuff here!

[taf0422]

Originally Posted by Lex Edge of the seat stuff here!

I only got photos of the new motor fully assembled. Darn. Hahahaha. Definitely liking the sex photos he sent. Motor is getting pulled tomorrow.

[Micha]

I am pretty sure I blew my ringlands in cylinder 1 on my stock motor.
Pulling it on Friday and should have pictures by saturday.

[duappleganger]

Man I would love to plot this data in a stats program I have but I'm not sure if we have enough data points for anything to be statistically significant. Maybe I'll give it a try anyway but the more people who provide data the better. I see what people were posting in the beginning of the thread but it everything that would be needed, off the top of my head, would be: Year, mileage, which cylinder(s) had cracked ringlands, meth, e85, ~whp, peak boost, peak timing, car tracked?... can't think of anything else atm.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by taf0422 Still waiting for a diagnosis from pablo guys. Was supposed to get some pictures yesterday of her but nothing yet so as soon as I get some goodies of the possible failure I will update!!

my $$$ is on ringland, exhaust side

if he could measure the ring gaps as they are that would be swell since I am about to install OEM chit in my new block.
@SPEED6 KILLAH;

what would be interesting to know is if they are at the max end of spec or in the middle or tight. That will give me a guestimation of how much I might want to open up the brand new rings. yes this would only be one motor but still just slightly better than a shot in the dark.

[taf0422]

Originally Posted by Dano my $$$ is on ringland, exhaust side if he could measure the ring gaps as they are that would be swell since I am about to install OEM chit in my new block. what would be interesting to know is if they are at the max end of spec or in the middle or tight. That will give me a guestimation of how much I might want to open up the brand new rings.

I'm not sure if he is really going to dive deep into my stocker since I went all brand new. Block to head. It will probably be a quick pull and replace since I need the car back. I will take measurements when I get it back though for ya.

[Dano]

yeah no problem either way it will be good forensic information to have.

if you are measuring the ring gaps have them 1/2 way down the bore to make the measurement.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Micha I am pretty sure I blew my ringlands in cylinder 1 on my stock motor. Pulling it on Friday and should have pictures by saturday.

Wasn't the block also vented? Sorry to hear about this

[Micha]

Originally Posted by Lex Wasn't the block also vented? Sorry to hear about this

Not vented luckily.
Did a compression test Saturday and cylinder 1 had a pool of oil on top of the cylinder.
2 was 150 psi.
3 was 50 psi
4 was 180 psi.

She went down fighting at 26.5 lbs and 332whp on VD on a BNR S3 and just 91.
14.5 degrees of timing.

No racing.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Micha Not vented luckily. Did a compression test Saturday and cylinder 1 had a pool of oil on top of the cylinder. 2 was 150 psi. 3 was 50 psi 4 was 180 psi. She went down fighting at 26.5 lbs and 332whp on VD on a BNR S3 and just 91. 14.5 degrees of timing. No racing.

26.5psi, 14.5* and cali 91 definitely don't mix.

Most BNRs I tune on the cali 91 barely break 21psi and 8-10* at redline to stay safe

[Micha]

Mine was doing good. No knock at all.

And then this happened.

[Tomas]

50 psi on cyl 3 is pretty low. It didn't run like crap? And what was cyl# 1?
And by the Hp numbers you posted I think one could tell there was something wrong.
26 psi and 14* of timing should get you in the 370 whp range on a mustang dyno even with BATs in the 110 range.

[Todd98SE]

@Micha; your compression numbers were something like 160, 160, 160, 180 when we installed the turbo right? Makes me think your motor was already critically wounded before the tune started based on the compression numbers we pulled Saturday.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Micha Mine was doing good. No knock at all. And then this happened.

No, I don't think it was doing well.

[Micha]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE @Micha; your compression numbers were something like 160, 160, 160, 180 when we installed the turbo right? Makes me think your motor was already critically wounded before the tune started based on the compression numbers we pulled Saturday.

It more than likely was Todd.

Honestly, I am not mad at all that the motor went. I expected it to happen sooner or later.

Thanks for the help guys.

I will post up pictures after we pull her and take her apart.

[Tomas]

If you weren't running a shit load of meth there is just no way IMO that a stock motor would not knock with that boost and timing + 91 oct . Doesn't matter if you have an intercooler the size of Texas. Did anyone modify your knock tables? You might also want to check the knock sensor is working properly if you are going to build the motor.

Edit: I guess a good amount of Eth would let you get away with it.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Micha It more than likely was Todd. Honestly, I am not mad at all that the motor went. I expected it to happen sooner or later. Thanks for the help guys. I will post up pictures after we pull her and take her apart.

Good luck with the build. Looking forward to your findings and as Tomas mentioned make sure that knock sensor is installed correctly and setup correctly in the tune for the next motor.

[Rokusek]

Originally Posted by 2.0t03speed That's a good question. I guess it is possible, but iirc Rokusek; did a comp test a few hundred miles into his built motor and compression was the same across the board. At the time we didn't know it but he had 2 blown injector seals.

My compression test at around 600 miles was at 150 across the board, and i had c1 and 2 seals completely blown. the comp test didnt tell us this either it was when we removed the IM to install the new JBR-VTA OCC kit when we noticed the injector seals where fucked and i had first runner in C2 valve seal was bad.


Sorry to hear about your zzb @Micha; Hope you get her back up and running soon!!!

[SPEED6 KILLAH]

Originally Posted by Dano my $$$ is on ringland, exhaust side if he could measure the ring gaps as they are that would be swell since I am about to install OEM chit in my new block. @SPEED6 KILLAH; what would be interesting to know is if they are at the max end of spec or in the middle or tight. That will give me a guestimation of how much I might want to open up the brand new rings. yes this would only be one motor but still just slightly better than a shot in the dark.

I had check the stock gap on new oem gen 2 piston. They were .006 on the top ring and
Bottom was ring .014 on taf0422 motor I will do some measure on the ring gap.

[Dano]

Right on!

I'll be checking my new gen2 gaps as well when I install the Carrillos.


Tappin

[atvfreek]

That is just crazy how small the factory ring gap is.

A piece of paper is only .003" so the ring gap is essentially 2 pieces of paper in thickness.

Sent from your couch

[Tokay444]

Yeah that's bullshit.

[mzr0818]

Originally Posted by Micha Not vented luckily. Did a compression test Saturday and cylinder 1 had a pool of oil on top of the cylinder. 2 was 150 psi. 3 was 50 psi 4 was 180 psi. She went down fighting at 26.5 lbs and 332whp on VD on a BNR S3 and just 91. 14.5 degrees of timing. No racing.

Those look like my numbers lol. Glad you did not vent either. good luck with the build.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE @Micha; your compression numbers were something like 160, 160, 160, 180 when we installed the turbo right? Makes me think your motor was already critically wounded before the tune started based on the compression numbers we pulled Saturday.

What do you think about a 170, 170, 160 (170 with oil) , 170 before a beaner install with a 91 only tune? Should we go for it?

Sent via smokey turbo.

[Todd98SE]

Originally Posted by himurax13 What do you think about a 170, 170, 160 (170 with oil) , 170 before a beaner install with a 91 only tune? Should we go for it? Sent via smokey turbo.

LOL, no idea man. I think you should run a leakdown test first, it should give you a better idea of the condition of the engine.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE LOL, no idea man. I think you should run a leakdown test first, it should give you a better idea of the condition of the engine.

Nah, I wanna go with the whole ingnorance is bliss thing, haha.

The compression and power output seem decent.

Sent via smokey turbo.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by himurax13 What do you think about a 170, 170, 160 (170 with oil) , 170 before a beaner install with a 91 only tune? Should we go for it? Sent via smokey turbo.

That's not much of a difference ~6% less...did you put oil in the others to see how much they went up?

as todd said a leakdown, if you care to go through the process, is your next step but at 10psi lower I don't think I would worry about it.

[Micha]

Originally Posted by himurax13 What do you think about a 170, 170, 160 (170 with oil) , 170 before a beaner install with a 91 only tune? Should we go for it? Sent via smokey turbo.

Is this your new stock motor?

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by Micha Is this your new stock motor?

Lol, no. I am gonna stay stock for a few months. I need a working car more than speed at the moment, haha.

As far as leakdown is concerned, its not my car, I don't have compressed air, and I don't have a wrench to turn the crankshaft with.

Sent via smokey turbo.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Great thread... Anyone have a compression tester recommendation (and a good procedure)? I should probably check mine...

Compression check results:

Driver side to Passenger side (I forget the numerical order)

182-176-174-177

4.5% delta between max/min. I can live with that at ~500whp.



I love these motors...

[div2]

So only one car running stock boost levels has experienced ringland failure?

[alphasaur]

I SUSPECT I may have a cracked ringland.

Model/Year: 2008 Mazdaspeed 3
Mileage: 90000 miles
Compression Results: 180 180 150 180
Cylinder /w SUSPECTED Cracked Ringlands: 3
Suspected Event Causing Failure, Condition of Affected Cylinder(s) and Other Info: IDKSOLOL, not making the power I'd expect given timing and boost with ethanol, also oil in vc vent-> intake. Have always had some oil in the intake track, so not sure how long I've had this issue.
Pictures:

[Lex]

Originally Posted by alphasaur Model/Year: 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 Mileage: 90000 miles Compression Results: 180 180 150 180 Cylinder /w Cracked Ringlands: 3 Suspected Event Causing Failure, Condition of Affected Cylinder(s) and Other Info: IDKSOLOL, not making the power I'd expect given timing and boost with ethanol, also oil in vc vent-> intake. Have always had some oil in the intake track, so not sure how long I've had this issue. Pictures:

It shouldn't be a confirmed failure until you take it apart. It's just suspected for now.

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by Lex It shouldn't be a confirmed failure until you take it apart. It's just suspected for now.

oops sorry I jumped the gun, will clarify in my post.

[sidekick]

I've recently started burning oil and my cylinder #3 spark plug is covered in what looks to be burned oil and has wet, black threads. Compression was 150PSI about 3K miles ago, but I couldn't actually do one today because the HF tester I bought a few months ago didn't work at all.

Anyways, does this point to a cracked ringland since the oil residue seems to only be on that one plug?

I suppose if I had a bent rod, that would "cock" the piston in its bore and create a similar problem with the rings sealing and allowing oil into the combustion chamber. There is some oil in the intercooler and the TB coupler, but not much, just a coating.

Here are my plugs:

[mrQQ]

#3 ftl

[SPEED6 KILLAH]

Originally Posted by alphasaur I SUSPECT I may have a cracked ringland. Model/Year: 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 Mileage: 90000 miles Compression Results: 180 180 150 180 Cylinder /w SUSPECTED Cracked Ringlands: 3 Suspected Event Causing Failure, Condition of Affected Cylinder(s) and Other Info: IDKSOLOL, not making the power I'd expect given timing and boost with ethanol, also oil in vc vent-> intake. Have always had some oil in the intake track, so not sure how long I've had this issue. Pictures:

Just Wondering what injectors seal are your running also do you have a occ kit.
What are you coolant temps are at?

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by SPEED6 KILLAH Just Wondering what injectors seal are your running also do you have a occ kit. What are you coolant temps are at?

none right now, going to do ptp and studs next week.

No occ. Coolant temps stay in the lower 190s.

[Lex]

OCC is great for cleaning up the intake tract when the engine is in good shape but if your compression is down and causing a lot of blowby it's a band-aid.

[Dano]

@sidekick;

FWIW I had oil pooling in all my IC piping when I lost my ringland. Your pics def look like more than typical blow by on a healthy motor.

My saga and pics can be found here

How bad is this-Oil everywhere