MZR DISI Ringland Failures

[breakfasteatre]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 did you check compression before you started tuning with meth/vince?

we never got to the point of tuning for meth. We had some initial maps and then I did the compression test and we stopped there. doh

never have I said I was fully tuned

[JCMS07]

Model/Year: 2007 MS3
Mileage: 128,079
Compression Results: 155-127-45-169
Cylinders /w Cracked Ringlands: 1,2 & 3
Suspected Event Causing Failure, Condition of Affected Cylinder(s) and Other Info: Pushed the car hard at the track and coolant temps would reach 235. Insulator for spark plug in Cylinder #2 cracked during a pass down the 1/4 mile.
Pictures:

[Lex]

Originally Posted by JCMS07 Model/Year: 2007 MS3 Mileage: 128,079 Compression Results: 155-127-45-169 Cylinders /w Cracked Ringlands: 1,2 & 3 Suspected Event Causing Failure, Condition of Affected Cylinder(s) and Other Info: Pushed the car hard at the track and coolant temps would reach 235. Insulator for spark plug in Cylinder #2 cracked during a pass down the 1/4 mile. Pictures:

Woah, thanks for the pics. That piston looks melted. Looks like it ran too hot/lean. also the pitting on the edge of the crown and down the side looks like some heavy detonation as well.

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by JCMS07 Model/Year: 2007 MS3 Mileage: 128,079 Compression Results: 155-127-45-169 Cylinders /w Cracked Ringlands: 1,2 & 3 Suspected Event Causing Failure, Condition of Affected Cylinder(s) and Other Info: Pushed the car hard at the track and coolant temps would reach 235. Insulator for spark plug in Cylinder #2 cracked during a pass down the 1/4 mile. Pictures:

How was your car running prior to doing a compression test. That motor took a beating.

Sent from your couch

[RichieRichness]

Originally Posted by JCMS07 Model/Year: 2007 MS3 Mileage: 128,079 Compression Results: 155-127-45-169 Cylinders /w Cracked Ringlands: 1,2 & 3 Suspected Event Causing Failure, Condition of Affected Cylinder(s) and Other Info: Pushed the car hard at the track and coolant temps would reach 235. Insulator for spark plug in Cylinder #2 cracked during a pass down the 1/4 mile. Pictures:

Wow bro!


Sent from my iPhone using RichieTalk

[JCMS07]

Originally Posted by atvfreek How was your car running prior to doing a compression test. That motor took a beating. Sent from your couch

After the insulator broke on the spark plug for cylinder #2 , I changed out the plug and the car ran fine. It was low on compression at about 130 psi, but still continue to hit the track for months. The car then started to knock almost all the time while cruising then came the misfire on cylinder #3 code. It would then idle rough and foul the spark plug on cylinder 3. Did the compression test and then the rebuild.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by JCMS07 After the insulator broke on the spark plug for cylinder #2 , I changed out the plug and the car ran fine. It was low on compression at about 130 psi, but still continue to hit the track for months. The car then started to knock almost all the time while cruising then came the misfire on cylinder #3 code. It would then idle rough and foul the spark plug on cylinder 3. Did the compression test and then the rebuild.

Breaking spark plugs = pretty severe detonation in most cases and the pistons show it too.

[JCMS07]

I wasn't logging when it happened but suspected it was due to an issue with the meth not spraying. I use to have issues with the check valve sticking often and running lean during WOT.

[BigRedSpecial]

Jesus you people have the fear of god put in me now. Looks like my BT is on hold until I get a compression tester

[Tokay444]

you should have a compression tester regardless. as red blooded north american male, it's an essential tool of life.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 you should have a compression tester regardless. as red blooded north american male, it's an essential tool of life.

Meh I prefer whiskey and ignorance.

[BigRedSpecial]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 you should have a compression tester regardless. as red blooded north american male, it's an essential tool of life.

I actually have one, but it's an ancient hand held model intended for snowmobiles; for what they cost I might as well get a proper one, especially considering my high levels of fail

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 you should have a compression tester regardless. as red blooded north american male, it's an essential tool of life.

They are as essential as breaker bars, torque wrenches, and condoms.

[BigRedSpecial]

Condoms are essential? Damn, I'm doing it wrong

[Tokay444]

what's a condom?

[TiGraySpeed6]

Big building on the beach I think.....
like an apartment but more expensive....

[DTKII]

Originally Posted by atvfreek Exactly what Lex said, If the TIP is not connected to the VC, the only place for the oil to come from is the turbo itself

I was having problems w oil in my Turbo to my intake manifold so I installed the JBR can VTA which blocks off the manifold and vents the valve cover to atmosphere. Eventually did compression and leak down tests, came to find that I had cracked ring lands in 3 cylinders. My question is if what you stated above is correct after I installed the occ I still saw oil in the manifold and Intercooler after I cleaned it... I know this is prob a stupid question seeing how I know I was getting blow by due to bad ring lands but do you think my turbo seals are bad as well or do you think it's from the ring lands?

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by DTKII I was having problems w oil in my Turbo to my intake manifold so I installed the JBR can VTA which blocks off the manifold and vents the valve cover to atmosphere. Eventually did compression and leak down tests, came to find that I had cracked ring lands in 3 cylinders. My question is if what you stated above is correct after I installed the occ I still saw oil in the manifold and Intercooler after I cleaned it... I know this is prob a stupid question seeing how I know I was getting blow by due to bad ring lands but do you think my turbo seals are bad as well or do you think it's from the ring lands?

I thought if the oil is pooling post turbo it could be the turbo. If it is pooling pre turbo, from the vent cover, it could be the ringlands.

Sent via blown passenger side speakers.

[DTKII]

Originally Posted by himurax13 I thought if the oil is pooling post turbo it could be the turbo. If it is pooling pre turbo, from the vent cover, it could be the ringlands. Sent via blown passenger side speakers.

It was definitely pooling post Turbo it was in the TMIC, throttle body and intake manifold... I'm wondering bc I would hate to have a bad turbo spewing oil into a freshly built motor. I would also hate to have to drop another 2k on a bigger turbo after already spending 3500 on a built motor....

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by DTKII It was definitely pooling post Turbo it was in the TMIC, throttle body and intake manifold... I'm wondering bc I would hate to have a bad turbo spewing oil into a freshly built motor. I would also hate to have to drop another 2k on a bigger turbo after already spending 3500 on a built motor....

Well I figure you might as well upgrade when things are getting fixed.

Sent via blown passenger side speakers.

[DTKII]

Originally Posted by himurax13 Well I figure you might as well upgrade when things are getting fixed. Sent via blown passenger side speakers.

If only I had another 2 grand laying around the motor should be done and back in in a couple weeks if everything goes well...

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by DTKII I was having problems w oil in my Turbo to my intake manifold so I installed the JBR can VTA which blocks off the manifold and vents the valve cover to atmosphere. Eventually did compression and leak down tests, came to find that I had cracked ring lands in 3 cylinders. My question is if what you stated above is correct after I installed the occ I still saw oil in the manifold and Intercooler after I cleaned it... I know this is prob a stupid question seeing how I know I was getting blow by due to bad ring lands but do you think my turbo seals are bad as well or do you think it's from the ring lands?

If you already had oil being pushed into the tip and turbo before venting everything Vta, then it takes quite a while to get all the oil out and you may never get it all out without pulling everything apart. So it may have been residual that was pooled in different places.

I literally pulled everything off my car and cleaned it. Even let my intercooler lay on its side for a few hours draining into an oil bucket.

[DTKII]

Originally Posted by atvfreek If you already had oil being pushed into the tip and turbo before venting everything Vta, then it takes quite a while to get all the oil out and you may never get it all out without pulling everything apart. So it may have been residual that was pooled in different places. I literally pulled everything off my car and cleaned it. Even let my intercooler lay on its side for a few hours draining into an oil bucket.

Yeah I hope that's what it was... Since the motor has been out I've cleaned everything. I soaked the Intercooler and intake manifold in mean green, dawn and distilled water for a few hours drained them and let them dry. I bet I dumped a half a quart of oil out of the IM two different times before the motor was taken out. Which I think the leak down test pushed most of that out. The shop I took it to for a leak down was testing it with 75psi and I saw up to a
35% loss in the 3 bad cylinders.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk 21373541391.743594.jpg

[Lex]

Originally Posted by DTKII Yeah I hope that's what it was... Since the motor has been out I've cleaned everything. I soaked the Intercooler and intake manifold in mean green, dawn and distilled water for a few hours drained them and let them dry. I bet I dumped a half a quart of oil out of the IM two different times before the motor was taken out. Which I think the leak down test pushed most of that out. The shop I took it to for a leak down was testing it with 75psi and I saw up to a 35% loss in the 3 bad cylinders. Attachment 117254

Did all 3 cylinders have broken ringlands? Which 3 were they? Also did the failure happen during a certain event? Like a track day?

[DTKII]

Originally Posted by Lex Did all 3 cylinders have broken ringlands? Which 3 were they? Also did the failure happen during a certain event? Like a track day?

2,3,&4 were all cracked 4 was the worse which is pictured above. Cylinder 1 held together like a champ there was only a 5% loss during the leak down test on it and it read around 180 on the compression test.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk 21373585878.222718.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk 21373585893.537633.jpg

[azazelthegreat]

Here we go!
Model/Year: 2008 speed3
Mileage:122k
Compression Results:Cylinder 1,3 and 4 in the 185 range Cylinder 2 has ranged from 30-90
Cylinders /w Cracked Ringlands: 2
Suspected Event Causing Failure, Condition of Affected Cylinder(s) and Other Info: Previous owner pushed the car to hard at the track. or something. idk
Pictures:

[daafisch]

^^ That is my old car so I guess my suspicions from the beginning of this thread were correct.

[mzr0818]

Originally Posted by daafisch I haven't taken the motor apart (and can't until I find a daily driver) so I can't confirm but I currently have low compression in cyl 2 and blowing oil out of the VC vent. I've been doing time attacks and track days for the past 3 summers. I know at Watkins Glen my coolant reached up into the 230's

LOL back in march

[Black Metal]

Here is my shit

06 ms6 85k 15k on the 3071

Compression
1 125
2 80
3 155
4 150

Cyl 1 had a cracked ringland on the exhaust side that was still mostly intact
Cyl 2 ringland was broken on the exhaust side but caused no scoring or marks on the cylinder wall.

I am in the process of replacing the pistons with a used factory set and installing new rings. I found this thread looking for factory end gap specs.

[Tokay444]

Then you should open the ring gap a tad.

[Black Metal]

The new factory 1st rings I bought are sitting at .010-.012 right out of the bag. How important is it that they are all even? I have never been this deep in to an engine before. I was thinking .012 would be okay for the 1st ring and .018 for the 2nd. Any input on the oil ring? I probably over looked it in the thread but it didn't seem to be mentioned.
@Tokay444

[Tokay444]

I was going to go to .014" and .020" with mine.
Yours seem a lot better than .007" that Mazda specs on the low end.
As far as them all being the same, I would personally set them all the same to appease my own personal idiosyncrasies.
None of it matters if you don't balance the flow in the manifolds though.

[Goodrich27]

Guess it's time for a compression tester


Sent from my phone whilst bojanglen.

[Black Metal]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 I was going to go to .014" and .020" with mine. Yours seem a lot better than .007" that Mazda specs on the low end. As far as them all being the same, I would personally set them all the same to appease my own personal idiosyncrasies. None of it matters if you don't balance the flow in the manifolds though.

I'm sure my hone job opened up the cylinder walls a tad.

[jack_hammer]

Originally Posted by azazelthegreat Here we go! Model/Year: 2008 speed3 Mileage:122k Compression Results:Cylinder 1,3 and 4 in the 185 range Cylinder 2 has ranged from 30-90 Cylinders /w Cracked Ringlands: 2 Suspected Event Causing Failure, Condition of Affected Cylinder(s) and Other Info: Previous owner pushed the car to hard at the track. or something. idk Pictures:

Originally Posted by daafisch ^^ That is my old car so I guess my suspicions from the beginning of this thread were correct.

and that, kids, is why you need to thoroughly inspect a used "sport" or "performance" car before purchase.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Black Metal Here is my shit 06 ms6 85k 15k on the 3071

It looks as if you started melting the piston as well.

[slw97]

This is my friend Jamar's @GGrease; MS6 that we have been tearing down

Model/Year: 2006 MS6
Mileage: 105,000
Compression Results: 120,120,609w/oil added),120
Cylinders /w Cracked Ringlands: Cyl 3
Suspected Event Causing Failure, Condition of Affected Cylinder(s)
High BAT's and coolant temps from running at the midnight drags.

Thought that the K04 was toast since it was smoking so bad so we swapped a GTX2867 and the smoking continued... the GTX only has maybe 20 miles on it.

Here are some pictures of the piston and cylinder bore. Hoping that we can save the bore with some honing.

[Lex]

What were the modifications installed and tune?

[RogerH]

Here is my piston. Here are the details:

2006 MS6
123,300 miles
Cylinder#4
No Compression test, the motor dropped a cylinder while wide open in 6th gear. I was running a stage 2 ots cobb map. my car is catless, cs dp, aem cai,cs tip, cpe single 3" exhaust, cs tmic. I should never have driven my car that hard on an ots map being catless. This happened a couple months ago. now I have k1 rods, and cpe stg 2 pistons. there was a dent deep enough in the #4 sleeve that it had to be replaced.

[Lex]

^ That is melted - clearly way too much heat in that motor or a failed injector.