Need help car wont start

[JoshC23]

I just finished up installing the pg fuel pump internals and I fucked it up. So I need some help. Everything seems to be right but the car wont start. It is turning over and I reconnected everything. I think I put the internals in wrong because it seems like the car isnt getting any fuel to start.

So does anyone have suggestions. Im sure I did something stupid.

[aaronc7]

you gotta turn the key position to "ON" and then back off...back to "ON"... SEVERAL times before it will start. I did this like 8 times and even then it didnt start right away...had to crank it a bit.

[JoshC23]

I cranked it about 50 times the way your saying. I think I put it together wrong, do you have any other ideas.

[JoshC23]

When you put it together will the plunger move freely and easily like the stock internals did because it real tight and kinda sticking, thats why I think I put it together wrong

[kingpin748]

Take it all apart and start over.

[bombdotcom]

Originally Posted by kingpin748 Take it all apart and start over.

+1

[JoshC23]

I have three times but I cant get the piston back out it is stuck is it supposed to stick in the 18mm nut or should it come apart easily, maybe I jammed it in backwards. I thought I put it in right.

[superskaterxes]

bump for taking it apart. i also i had to physcially crank the car like 10x before enough pressure built up and the like. also make sure u reconnected all of your electrical harnesses. go over everything

take a pict for us and report back

[gsrtype1]

Mine acutally started right up.. Dude maybe you put the round peice that gows over the piston in backwards. Was the "big" part facing out and the little part facing in just like when you pulled out the old one? I got stcuck on this becuase the was the piston and the round thing where in the bag where backwards kinda misleading...

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by gsrtype1 Mine acutally started right up.. Dude maybe you put the round peice that gows over the piston in backwards. Was the "big" part facing out and the little part facing in just like when you pulled out the old one? I got stcuck on this becuase the was the piston and the round thing where in the bag where backwards kinda misleading...

i also got this wrong at first but i realized it when i couldent screw the plunger back into the pump so he def diddent do this.

[kingpin748]

I cycled the key a few times and it fired almost immediately.

[7mileshome]

We hooked a dash hawk up and it showed the fuel pump psi at 57. We turned the ignition on and off several times, and there was no increase in pressure. We unhooked the coilpacks, started the car and the psi went to 61, then 64. Cranked it several times, the psi did not increase any more. Reconnected the coilpacks, and still the pressure did not increase. It seems for some reason like the fuel pressure is not high enough to start the engine. Is this possible?

[phailerider]

it may be a bad internal... and im not saying this to be funny considering yesterdays thread. these things can seize if the tolerances arent right.

id take it apart one more time..... if you cant get it apart. i dont know what to say.... other than, get it out of your car and get another plan with a different pump.

ive never heard of it seizing tho unless it had run for a minute. eh im in circles with this post but i'll still submit it

[phailerider]

i may need to send up a bat alert for mr johnathon martin....aka mrlilguy.

[7mileshome]

Well we have come to the conclusion it is bad internals, I all ready called Ken he is taken care of me

Does anyone know where the crankshaft position sensor is

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by 7mileshome Well we have come to the conclusion it is bad internals, I all ready called Ken he is taken care of me Does anyone know where the crankshaft position sensor is

i think its the sensor on top of the valve cover...over on the left facing the motor.

[phailerider]

disregard the above post lol... thats the cam sensor

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by palerider disregard the above post lol... thats the cam sensor

LOL yeah I would hope the crank sensor is near or on the crank randy

[7mileshome]

OK the stock pump is back in and everything is hooked up, now we are getting a p0335(crankshaft postion sensor) and the fuel pump is not building pressure. Does anyone have ideas

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 LOL yeah I would hope the crank sensor is near or on the crank randy

i got camshaft position sensor codes when that was loose and nobody knew where it was at the time. i was holding the baby and trying to be helpful, and knew i was wrong as i hit submit. i dont know about the crankshaft sensor.... is it one of the ones right around the pump? seems weird that it would be up there too. i doubt they were anywhere near the crank.

im gonna go pop the hood....lol drove the gti today, and i need my fix anyway.

[7mileshome]

yeah found it

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by 7mileshome yeah found it

If it was unplugged that would be the reason why the car wouldn't start..

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by 7mileshome yeah found it

describe please

[7mileshome]

It is located near the crankshaft, its hard to say that is the problem. Hard to say that is the reason the car is not starting. We put the stock internals back in, and it still would not start. (yes, we primed it several times, enough to kill the battery)

Clearly the problem is we can not build enough fuel pressure. I think the question is, can anyone think of another reason? I think the fuel pump recirculates inside itself when it reaches a certain pressure, could the fuel pump relay circut be messed up somehow?

[Speedn3]

Was the car running fine before the install?

[gdg]

Originally Posted by 7mileshome It is located near the crankshaft, its hard to say that is the problem. Hard to say that is the reason the car is not starting. We put the stock internals back in, and it still would not start. (yes, we primed it several times, enough to kill the battery) Clearly the problem is we can not build enough fuel pressure. I think the question is, can anyone think of another reason? I think the fuel pump recirculates inside itself when it reaches a certain pressure, could the fuel pump relay circut be messed up somehow?

So just to try and help paint the picture a bit, I went down and checked this out and I'm kind of at a loss. I'm not 100% sure how to tell if the pump is simply not building enough pressure or if there is something else stopping the car from starting. With OEM internals the pump seemed to be fine as far as depressing the plunger by hand and hearing some amount of vacuum through the fuel pipes. The dashhawk did seem to indicate that there was only 50-60 psi but I'm really not sure how much pressure the pump will build by just turning over until the engine actually starts. On my car and 7miles car, it looked like it was holding 400 psi with engine off and key on, I'm pretty sure that is just the last value that was available when the engine was turned off though.

--> So question One for me is, Does anyone know what pressure should be read before idle, can we assume if the fuel PSI is reading 50-60 when turning the car over means the pump could be the culprit? Or simply that's all it should have until we actually get the engine started..

We were certainly no where near the crankshaft sensor itself but from looking at a wot box install instructions, the harness the wires go through for the crankshaft sensor looks like it's right there near the pump. I think whatever is causing the P0335 code to throw could be stopping the car from starting.

--> So question number two for me is, How could we test if the crankshaft sensor is working or not working. 7mile tested the fuses thoroughly so it would seem to be either a harness/connection or the sensor actually having a problem.

Additionally, small vacuum tube coming off of the turbo inlet going to some type of sensor or electrical --- doohickey on/near the turbo was broke. Now basic logic dictates this has nothing to do with the car starting because... well I think we all kind of just assumed it doesn't..

--> Question three, could that tube be part of the issue for starting and can anyone confirm what is is exactly. I need to find a shop manual.

Ken@Pg, if you happen to read over this, It looks like these internals were simply not machined correctly, The plunger would not move through the sleeve freely and it does not look like there's any type of damage or obstruction.. it's just a smidge too tight. I initially thought internals may have been installed wrong but after looking at it more closely, I don't think you can actually get the nut to thread if it's in backwards as was mentioned in a previous post.

If Anyone has any other ideas I'm all ears, and again... Josh/7mile.. sorry this time around this whole thing = failed.. I'm more than happy to take another stab at it when we have more time.. just let me know when. It was great to meet both of you.

-GG

[JoshC23]

yes it was running great

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by gdg Additionally, small vacuum tube coming off of the turbo inlet going to some type of sensor or electrical --- doohickey on/near the turbo was broke. Now basic logic dictates this has nothing to do with the car starting because... well I think we all kind of just assumed it doesn't.. --> Question three, could that tube be part of the issue for starting and can anyone confirm what is is exactly. I need to find a shop manual.

That tube is connected to the boost control solenoid. It vents pressure from the wastegate actuator into the intake to raise the boost. It will not stop the car from starting...

Sorry, but i can't answer any of your other questions..

[gdg]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller That tube is connected to the boost control solenoid. It vents pressure from the wastegate actuator into the intake to raise the boost. It will not stop the car from starting... Sorry, but i can't answer any of your other questions..

RGR, thanks SSi.

[7mileshome]

Originally Posted by JoshC23 yes it was running great

We are going to find out whats going on, one way or another.

[SRTCE142]

60psi is what the pump in the fuel tank is delivering.

depending on how exactly the fuel injectors work (if they function like a diesel injector), 60psi might not be enough to even open them to inject fuel (no clue here - depends on what Mazda engineers wanted for limp home - if they even cared about limp home functionality)

sounds to me like your CDHP isn't doing its job (aftermarket and stock)

So did you install internals, then remove them and reinstall stock on the same pump or did you have a second pump that you installed internals on?

Did you look closely at the camshaft pump lobes for damage?

Pic for reference:

[gdg]

Originally Posted by SRTCE142 sounds to me like your CDHP isn't doing its job (aftermarket and stock) So did you install internals, then remove them and reinstall stock on the same pump or did you have a second pump that you installed internals on? Did you look closely at the camshaft pump lobes for damage?

Upgraded Internals were installed on OEM pump, then removed and OEM internals were put back in the same oem pump.

As far as I could tell the lobe looked fine. Oil was certainly being delivered to the spring/shaft as when we took it off the pump to put the OEM internals back in we made a bit of a mess.

-GG

[mrlilguy157]

a crank sensor unplugged would not allow the car to start. if you're looking at the crank pulley, its the sensor about 2" Northwest of pulley.

a cam sensor unplugged would not allow the car to start. there is one over the drivers side intake cam valve cover area.

the VCTS sensor unplugged won't let the car start either. its located on the passanger side over the exhaust cam, iirc.

hope this helps. the car would start, even with a seized pump, always. injectors will operate in limp mode at 60psi, but don't go into boost if you're using just an MBC. if you're using the stock boost solenoid, the car won't let you go into boost.

[gdg]

Originally Posted by mrlilguy157 a crank sensor unplugged would not allow the car to start. if you're looking at the crank pulley, its the sensor about 2" Northwest of pulley. a cam sensor unplugged would not allow the car to start. there is one over the drivers side intake cam valve cover area. the VCTS sensor unplugged won't let the car start either. its located on the passanger side over the exhaust cam, iirc. hope this helps. the car would start, even with a seized pump, always. injectors will operate in limp mode at 60psi, but don't go into boost if you're using just an MBC. if you're using the stock boost solenoid, the car won't let you go into boost.

Very Helpful, Thanks much mrlilguy.

-GG

[redrocketz]

if the pump was seized before even running the car it was installed wrong it needs to be inserted very carefully and precisely or it will jam the tolerances are just that tight.

[Speedn3]

Have you pulled the plugs to see if they are fouled?

[kingpin748]

Originally Posted by JoshC23 I have three times but I cant get the piston back out it is stuck is it supposed to stick in the 18mm nut or should it come apart easily, maybe I jammed it in backwards. I thought I put it in right.

This part leads me to believe he damaged the pump somehow installing the internals. But I'm guessing.

[gdg]

Originally Posted by Speedn3 Have you pulled the plugs to see if they are fouled?

Yes, this we did check.

-GG

[gdg]

Originally Posted by kingpin748 This part leads me to believe he damaged the pump somehow installing the internals. But I'm guessing.

Although there is a high probability that the pump is toast, from looking at how the piston was jammed.. it looks like it would have only had an effect on the 18mm nut.. that's what it was jammed into. But.. more importantly based off of what mrlilguy said.. the car should still start.

So we really need to find a wiring diagram and understand how the crankshaft sensor wires run. I'm pretty sure the sensor itself is not going to be our issue because we just didn't go anywhere near it. wires from A - Z however could be an issue.

-GG

[gsrtype1]

Hey just throwen this out there.. You did reinstall the fuse in the fuse box so the car would start rite?