All right..I dont disagree with much of what you said.

and a small point... Mark doesnt take time out when hes tuning my car.. the girl answers the phone and in between pulls may tell himwhose on the phone....lol There are only like 2-3 times hes ever excused himself and the car needed to cool down all those times anyway.

I have made all my installs there... well over a hundred dyno pulls... multiple tuning/ tweaking sessions.... hours of phone conversations on my behalf... and my total bill so far there is a little over $4000 and that includes my tips and free vitamins and health advice I give them.

My turbo/manifold/inlet and custom intake install, with V2 in and out with 30-40 dyno pulls, and tune, a full day on the dyno... cost 1100 bucks. Their three blocks away, its a hangout for me now many days. Im committed there.

Ive got the fastest ms3 on the boards, and I havent broken anything. ive had my pump on multiple times... leaking gas into my engine with no ecu control... problems here and problems there... nothing has broken except my wideband.

One of the guys who works there just got out of the hospital battling thyroid cancer.. they are as much a part of all of this as you guys are. i reiterate... im committed there. take it or leave it.

You got to remember I was a complete noob to this scene a year ago. I wouldnt be where i am now without them.... not close. And BIG POINT... if this is all for fun.. the relationships ive got there make it better.. not worse. Being apart of that, DCR, all the rest.... as a beginner... has improved the experience.

As far as alienating everybody and being too sensitive.... hogwash. you read to much into where the aggravation was coming from. I get tired of all the bellyaching about how terrible all the options are...this and that.... I say..

just fucking do it.

When better options are available to unleash this car... and 500 guys are running the shit. I'll look back, and I promise you.... I'll have had the best experience of them all. Im not restrained financially and i think a lot of guys around here will tell you I have a good heart. I try...

Its just frustrating to be taking the very best RIGHT NOW... getting the results Im getting and then be told constantly how "disappointing" it is. Youre right Im dedicated to the community... and ive poured tons of money into this project. Im just getting started Kevin... I'll have everything on here as soon as it comes out.

as far as the 5000 for an ic and intake swap.... you missed the point. I'm going to swap... Ive been in touch with people and places that will be doing things above and beyond whats available now. Im unimpressed with whats currently available, and Im not going to keep modding the mods with flawed shit. Strangely Im passed the bolton stage to a degree.

Im tired of waiting for "the neverending promises... the "update" threads". they are a joke. my car is real, its fast, and its going to break ground all the way along.

BTW... Of course Im going to keep the updates coming. I was being facetious. I am also going to speak my mind. I may not have been around the modding world all my life, but im a pretty astute guy i think and there isnt anything my little hobby has presented that we havent overcome yet. Ive just been more frustrated by the reactions, than with the actual car.

Youd be too.

I understand Randy and the best way to deal with this is to throw your success with your car, in their faces. People are going to talk shit. However, the reason they are doing that is to see how far that can make you go and see the results. Poeple have faith in you Randy and appreciate everything you have done, me included, fucker:squintfinger:

I was replying to your rant... you should know better :nutkick:

my posts in this thread have been pretty goddam long...lol

Well at least nobody can accuse me of being a post whore.. ricer version of Hemingway maybe... but no post whore...lol

No shit, considering i have 10X the posts as you!

Well thats because you are the "real" admin.... and I am the "pretend" one. Im less committed.:)

Keep us the way you been posting and its going to commit you to an institution!

i dont even know who this mark guy is, but umm the tuning solution you are using is not hard to use, and i have read nothinb but 'multiple phone calls to cpe' to try to figure shit out. Pardon my lil rant BUT THERES NOTHING TO FIGURE OUT, its fucken timing and fuel, your daughter could do that shit in 10 min on the street. Don't fall for the trap that he's 'tuning' your car, cause hes not doing anythign special that you or anybody on this site can't do. I dont know why but everybody makes tunning be diffricult....and its one of the easiest things you can do.

As for my opinion on the car....I still think something is wrong lol. How does a ms6 make more power and a shit load more torque is beyond me, than again they only trapped 106 so its probably a bullshit dyno. But wait i 4got, trap speeds don't mean anythign to people on here lol.

You want to tune your car? Go to the track on a empty night. The best 20 dollar tune you will ever get.

the calls were essentially discussing why things are responding the way they are.. why the lean hump... secondary fuel... the maxed maf.... the coldweather fuel cut fix.... where do we clamp the map.... datalogging...what were seeing. The reflash and "other" things Im not going to discuss just yet.

he doesnt always take my word for things.... And remember... hes learning our car first hand... he doesnt spend hours on the forums wading through all the bullshit. He draws his own conclusions. he'll see things on the datalogs and then he'll call and discuss it.

he knows my goal is to build the biggest, baddest ms3.... he is intent on discussing where we are going next with the tools we have now. And also hoping to get work done by them for us.

All that ...eh.... 6-8 phone calls 10-20 minutes(some they were calling in)... one lasted over an hour but it was on the the vacuum hose shit and then a ton of other stuff about whats going to be available soon. remember.. CPE is just as interested as to how things are going down here as well.

Yeah... something is wrong....lol Im not going to keep fucking repeating where more power is. I'll keep you updated as I fix the small issues..

And until somebody catchs up... the 335-345 THAT IVE GOT RIGHT NOW(at least).... will have to do. Im done posting my dynos from Marks. I'll use it as MY baselines but since its low, I'll use the other dyno for all you guys. The fact that it reads 20 higher, and is newer seems to be more exciting for everybody...oooh, aaahhhh. It doesnt matter Ive shown it on graphs before. You guys are going to have to see it EVERY GODDAM time to believe it....lol

you can call BS all day long but truth of the matter is those are REAL numbers and those are real times take it as it is. there are waay too many variables at the track and like I've said before it's AWD they dont pull as much at the top end period get over it.

if a dyno number makes you happy then knock yourself out.

btw, 330whp is 330whp weather it be awd or fwd or rwd, awd does not pull any more or less....so lets get that out of the way

Wasn't paleriders dyno done on a mustang dyno? Those things murder you for power.

loosh is right, total b.s., 330whp is 330whp, the weight of awd and fwd is obviously different, but power is power, doesn't matter what drivetrain it is.

That's like asking whats will fall faster, 1,000 lbs. of feathers or 1,000 lbs. iron. Same shit.

It depends on if the iron was in the shape of a parachute.

i got it done and there is definitely more more to it now. you can feel it in through 3-4 especially 4th. not to mention i did 1-2 pulls and it hit redline without falling off or at least felt like it. its almost 11 here so i can't really go do any runs to see where its at after that like 3-4-5 but i can definitely feel the difference.

Mazda blew mine off, they said the problem was the purge valve and the one way valve. I am sure my car will pop a celo in another day or two anyway so maybe then they will fix it right.

my dealership wasnt going to do it saying there wasn't anything on vin to make them perform the reflash. i went home got the TSB pdf and showed them they pulled it up and took care it. i also got an oil change a bath for the car. all in all its a good day. my is clean and it runs better.

Track numbers are a valid measuring tool either.... There are a ton of variables, including temp, altitude, track conditions, tires, driver, etc, etc...

I hate it when the dealer washes my car!!! I swear they use a dirty rag to wipe it down!!!

I tell them to leave it alone now.... "just do the maintenance, because you suck at washing a car!" They got the point.

Wish my dealer would actually DO the TSB. I guarantee if I leave the car for them to "recreate" the symptoms, they wont find them. My car is affected by the PCM flash but they basically said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

so what is the flash doing to the cars? flash/fix...i read the thread but didnt see anything abotu someosn results after they had the work done.

the power band feels stronger and a little wider as of right now. it just seems more useable overall right now.

i believe that 330whp is 330whp but i don't believe that a awd car with the same weight and power as a fwd car would be equal in terms of pulling. 330hp to 4 wheels is going to pull harder than 330hp to just 2 wheels. i may be wrong and you all will try and shut me down but whatever thats how i see it.

You are wrong. You are confusing whp with traction. If a car had 6 or 8 wheel drive do you think it would "pull harder" than a 4 wheel drive?
-enganear

Ok, thats pure shit.. 4 wheels pulling harder than 2 wheels with the same horsepower level? First, you have serious drivetrain loss with AWD. Secondly, you arent getting equal power to all four wheels, let alone, weight xfer. If this held any merit, every car running NHRA would be AWD...

AWD is good for 2 things.. Launch with radials and traction on dirt/snow. Thats it! AWD cars always trap lower than fwd/rwd.

sigh, NO THEY DONT!
So your telling me that a 330 awhp wrx is going to trap lower than a 330fwhp wrx with a disconnected rear? This awd trapping lower BULLSHIT has to stop being spread around.

i agree with loosh.

AWD and FWD is both shit for 1/4 mile......... neither take advantage of weight transfer.

awd does drain a lil more power out of the engine but dynoes measure power to the wheels as we all know, and the last time i checked whp is whp no matter how many wheels are producing it. Will a 330 whp ms3 out trap a 330 whp ms6....absolutly. Will a 330 whp ms3 with 2 passenger out trap a 330whp ms6...no, it wont.

Prove me wrong than... 13,455 passes down the 1/4 strip in my 20 years, ive never seen a AWD car with the same exact hp, trap the same fuckin mph as rwd.

You just contradicted yourself in less than 2 minutes...

are they the same weight?

where did i contradict myself? I said awd eat more power but in the end the POWER PUT DOWN TO THE WHEELS IS POWER PUT DOWN TO THE WHEELS NO MATTER WHAT. 330 whp is 330 whp no matter if it was put down to one wheel or 4. Reread what i wrote. The only way you can compare this is if both cars have the same power/gearing/weight. There's a reason why a 330awhp evo would DESTROY a 330 awhp ms6.


Now take a ms3 at 3200 lbs and add 400 lbs to it. Make the thing rach 300 whp. Now take a ms6 and make it reach 300whp. In the 1/4 im willing to be my left nut that the ms6 will not only finish with a better time but actually even OUTTRAP the ms3. Traction does not kill trap speed, it helps it. There are tons of srt4 that gain mph wiht slicks as apposed to street tires.

thats exactly what i tried to say in my first post.

You keep forgetting about torque Chris.. HP means jackshit in a drag race until you look at torque...

Ill give you a hard example and some serious head scratching...

You and i line up. We are both 330whp.... however, i use a 50 shot of n20 to get me to 330hp... im going to tear you a new asshole not only out of the hole, but im going to trap anywhere between 5-7 mph over you. Do you understand where im going with this?

330 hp is 330 hp, sure.. but there is no fucking way 330hp on an AWD platform is going to trap higher than a fwd/rwd car, plain and simple. Weight xfer + Torque are the 2 variables, you left out.

Time to call up Mudderfalkin Mythbusters!!!!

torque based on my experience is overrated. Don't believe me....go look a honda.

The reason why a 330whp nitrous ms6 will beat a 330whp non nitrous ms6 is because nitrous hits instantly and on trubo cars produces more torque, so yes it will get you off the line quicker if you have the traction, after the first 330, it wont mean jack shit. Look at all the 1000wtq diesel trucks out there.

When i was comparing 330whp i said its based on gearing/weight/power. Being that the 3 and 6 have the same gearing/band/power, the only thing will make one trap higher is weight. Equal out the weight and the 3 will not pull on the 6.

A nitrous shot = 2 X torque if used as a power adder with a supercharger/turbo. So, your 50 shot becomes a 100 lbs of torque.

Torque is hardly overrated and something ricers cry about everytime i see them at the track.

I see 7300 pound powerstrokes laying down 11.70 et's with 1000 lbs of torque, so i dont understand what youre trying to say when using them as a comparison?

If you were to create equal weight between a MS6 vs a MS3, the 3 is still going to trap higher. We can argue this all day long Chris. You arent taking parasitic loss into consideration through the transaxles on the MS6.

He is taking that loss into consideration... hence the numbers at the wheels...

Lets just say there are far too many variables to come to a solid conclusion either way and leave it at that.

SO yeah.... fuel pump and stuff.

So my car has zero of those issues (only lack of power is when the boost spikes and it cuts power)... should I even bother?

MS6 is going to have grip out of the hole. therefore, ET trap is lost to traction. Done deal.. The MS6's ET will be lower than the MS3 but the MS3 will have a higher MPH in the trap. Thanks for proving my point. /end thread jack