New spark plug advice

[Raider]

Ok, so I searched the forums, and did not see anything that stood out as an answer for my question. I did see the plug database. I did not want to clutter the database with my question, so here goes.

I am hinking of swapping the plugs on both of my cars. I have a CX-7, and Speed 3.

Here are the engine mods
CX-7: 3" TMIC, CAI, BOV (hybrid mode). 51K miles on it.
MS3: 3" TMIC. CAI. BOV (recirc mode), turbo inlet. 37K miles on it. Pending mods include a test pipe.

Do you guys thing these mods warrant step colder plus for them? If not, what do you suggest?

I do not have a dash hawk, but do have an electronic boost gauge, if that matters.

[SpeedSixxx]

I run my bov VTA and this causes the car to run richer and fauls spark plugs faster then normal...

I use denso iridium 2 step colder so that I keep more heat in the bottom block to clean the plugs more efficiently. I havnt had a problem since...

one step colder will work fine even with a factory car...

[JamesDL]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx I run my bov VTA and this causes the car to run richer and fauls spark plugs faster then normal... I use denso iridium 2 step colder so that I keep more heat in the bottom block to clean the plugs more efficiently. I havnt had a problem since... one step colder will work fine even with a factory car...

Sweet idea.

[nyghtryder]

you using a dashhawk at all? The plugs are going to help keep knock at bay. Stock vehicles can run 1 step colder and be fine. If your kr isnt high then i would stay with the one step. Ive noticed most go the 2 steps when they raise their boost.

[taf0422]

I have heard if you are on stock boost to about 18-19 pounds then step one is fine...Anything above that should have step 2 plugs..

[sleeperstang1994]

damn i just put one step colder in mine about 3k miles ago. now im getting KR with my mods so i gota buy another set of plugs! FML

[danesti]

^^^
have you checked the gap?
or tried adjusting the gap?

[SpeedSixxx]

just saying....denso iridiums should all be pre gapped and if you check the gap and it is off then go swap em for another set of plugs..cause there is a 50/50 chance you could chip the iridium tip when trying to gap them your selves....

good ruck

[sleeperstang1994]

ya i checked my gap out of the box and they were ok. I should check them again but i just talked to palerider about getting some 2 steps and i hope that helps out. plugs are a cheap try to see if they help

[danesti]

i had to adjust the gap a little bit.
the 2 steps helped a bit with my knock.

[sleeperstang1994]

thats what im hoping for,fixing the knock. ive always liked NGK plugs but it seems everyone is having good results with the densos so i should just conform

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by sleeperstang1994 thats what im hoping for,fixing the knock. ive always liked NGK plugs but it seems everyone is having good results with the densos so i should just conform

yes you should!

[fbpem1]

IMO ngk is a better plug thats what i have run since the car was new, swapped em out 3 days after i got this this shitbox.

[aaronc7]

1 step colder...denso itv22

[SpeedSixxx]

ngk / denso they are both good as long as you buy the iridium and nothing less!

[aaronc7]

I just prefer the densos are they come gapped at .030... vs ..044 or something on the NGKs

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by Raider Ok, so I searched the forums, and did not see anything that stood out as an answer for my question. I did see the plug database. I did not want to clutter the database with my question, so here goes. I am hinking of swapping the plugs on both of my cars. I have a CX-7, and Speed 3. Here are the engine mods CX-7: 3" TMIC, CAI, BOV (hybrid mode). 51K miles on it. MS3: 3" TMIC. CAI. BOV (recirc mode), turbo inlet. 37K miles on it. Pending mods include a test pipe. Do you guys thing these mods warrant step colder plus for them? If not, what do you suggest?

I don't think a step colder plug will help with your current mods. If you add a tuner and increase boost above stock levels or really open up the exhaust with a big downpipe and racepipe (both, not just the race pipe), then you will need the colder plugs.

Ther's a lot of misinformation about heat range on plugs. Here's a good source of accurate data:

Tech Info - Spark Plugs Overview

If a MS3 owner is concerned about fouling plugs, then going colder is only going to make that condition worse.

I run the one step colder NGK Iridium IX. They do have to be regapped from .044 down to .028-.032 - not nearly the difficulty some have suggested, and all new plugs should be checked for gap anyway. Mine are regapped to .030.

Hope this is helpful.

[fbpem1]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx ngk / denso they are both good as long as you buy the iridium and nothing less!

thats only becuase they are long lasting....

plug changes are needed less frequently

and your not going to foul the plugs out if your running your blow off valve not in recirc lol silliest thing i heard all day.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by fbpem1 thats only becuase they are long lasting.... plug changes are needed less frequently and your not going to foul the plugs out if your running your blow off valve not in recirc lol silliest thing i heard all day.

really so are you telling us that running your bov atmospheric does not make you run rich which in turn fauls your plugs faster...

ask cpe if they think it is silly...

and on top of all that running 1 or 2 steps colder will not make the problem worse it will help if anything even on a stock car bro!

do you even know what running a step colder will do?

it keeps piston chamber temps from raising into the head and in doing this is helps the "cleaning" process that goes on in your block and so like I said it will help your problem....

and what is long lasting? ...denso's web site recommends changing your plugs more frequently in higher HP applications...

[fbpem1]

you think the car is loading up more with fuel on a BOV recirc than with WOT on a car w/ a pump in it? thats the silly thing.

and those who know me know i don't appreciate CPE's BIASED opinion on just about everything.

an IRIDIUM tipped plugged is designed to have a longer service interval than said other plugs and i have said this before fuck denso NGK all the way

[fbpem1]

you think the car is loading up more with fuel on a BOV recirc than with WOT on a car w/ a pump in it? thats the silly thing.

and those who know me know i don't appreciate CPE's BIASED opinion on just about everything

an IRIDIUM tipped plugged is designed to have a longer service interval than said other plugs and i have said this before fuck denso NGK all the way

[nyghtryder]

Originally Posted by fbpem1 you think the car is loading up more with fuel on a BOV recirc than with WOT on a car w/ a pump in it? thats the silly thing. and those who know me know i don't appreciate CPE's BIASED opinion on just about everything an IRIDIUM tipped plugged is designed to have a longer service interval than said other plugs and i have said this before fuck denso NGK all the way

so what are you recommending since you dont like ngk/denso? should i just get some autolites, bosch platinum 4's, stick with the motorcrap, or just get some good ole fashioned champions from the local home depot?

now on a serious note since there isnt alot of choices what would or are you using?

[fbpem1]

possibly if you were more observent you would notice i said i don't like denso's but now let me quote this...

"NGK all the way"

i have run NGK's in all my cars with nothing but success.

i'm on my 3rd set of NGK 6510's now full part number LTR7IX-11 which is 1 step colder than stock. ok thank you.

[nyghtryder]

Originally Posted by fbpem1 possibly if you were more observent you would notice i said i don't like denso's but now let me quote this... "NGK all the way" i have run NGK's in all my cars with nothing but success. i'm on my 3rd set of NGK 6510's now full part number LTR7IX-11 which is 1 step colder than stock. ok thank you.

lol i just got schooled, im going to sleep now.

[Raider]

No boost control on either of the vehicles. Want a DH, just money is tight. It is just a thought, as the CX-7's MPG has dropped, even with regular maintenance.

So what it looks like, is there are some serious thoughts on what I should do. Either get 1 step, or get regular.


EDIT: I do have a boost gauge on the MS3. Boosts to 17lbs, spikes up to 19, if that matters

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx really so are you telling us that running your bov atmospheric does not make you run rich which in turn fauls your plugs faster... ask cpe if they think it is silly... and on top of all that running 1 or 2 steps colder will not make the problem worse it will help if anything even on a stock car bro! do you even know what running a step colder will do? it keeps piston chamber temps from raising into the head and in doing this is helps the "cleaning" process that goes on in your block and so like I said it will help your problem.... and what is long lasting? ...denso's web site recommends changing your plugs more frequently in higher HP applications...

I'm with you on the BOV vent to atmosphere being a bad thing. Running rich and with a screwed up AFR mismatch - oxygen the ECU thinks is present got vented to air rather than entering through the intake valves.

But, I think you have your info about heat range benefits backward. Please read the link I posted to NGK's site regarding plug heat ranges. If an engine is fouling plugs, it needs HOTTER heat range. A colder range will make the situation worse.

It's always a balancing act between detonation (knocking) which can be helped by going with a colder heat range, and fouling, which requires a hotter plug to keep combustion chamber temps up to better burn off the carbon deposits.

I have difficulty believing that there are any circumstances with our engines that would justify going two ranges colder. Maybe with a really big Garrett turbo running very high boost and a super lean tune, that might make sense, but then the internals would have to be beefed up a lot too.

IMHO, the key to optimizing spark plugs on these engines on stock tune is to adjust heat range so that there is enough heat to keep the tip clean and no more. Keep gap narrow - .028-.032, and if running any kind of tune or higher boost, drop the gap to .026. If you can't keep the tip clean and still have knock, then raise octane to 93. Use octane boost if necessary.

Colder plugs do not prevent fouling, they aggravate it.

[shadesofgray19]

Tru Dat MSMS3, running too cold of a plug will foul it. I never heard of anyone recommending 2 step colder plug for these cars with a stock turbo until I seen this thread.

[Raider]

Ok, so with the mods I have posted in #1, what do you all think I should do? Thread went a bit off topic.

[aaronc7]

Originally Posted by nyghtryder so what are you recommending since you dont like ngk/denso? should i just get some autolites, bosch platinum 4's, stick with the motorcrap, or just get some good ole fashioned champions from the local home depot? now on a serious note since there isnt alot of choices what would or are you using?

stay away from platinums for boosted applications... copper or iridium.... which just so happens that no one makes/has found copper plugs that fit/work in our car...thus we are stuck with iridiums. I wish someone made some cheap copper plugs and i would just change them every 5000 miles or something.

I have not ran NGKs before, but I have had zero issues with both the 1 step (ITV22) and 2 step (ITV24) denso plugs...never regapped any of them either

[aaronc7]

Originally Posted by Raider Ok, so with the mods I have posted in #1, what do you all think I should do? Thread went a bit off topic.

Originally Posted by aaronc7 1 step colder...denso itv22

[subparpunk03]

Stay stock, or go with 1 step colder max. With your mods I wouldn't bother with 1 step colder plugs.

I'm running the stock plugs on a SST + fully bolted car... step colder plugs did absolutely nothing for me, didn't help the knock, car felt identical so I said screw it and went back to stock plugs.

[aaronc7]

FYI, cobb examined my stock plugs when all I had was Intake/TBE... they saw signs of boiling on the plugs (at which point step colder would be a good idea). I think 1 step colder is good for any decently modded bolton car or one with raised boost. I don't think you need to switch to step colder right away or anything...car will probably run fine with stock ones. But then it's time to replace those i would look into 1 step colder.

[MSMS3]

With your mods, you'll probably perform best with stock heat range in either the NGK Iridium IX or the Denso iridium.

If you are concerned about knock with your mods, try to get 93 octane and you should be fine, even with the test pipe. If you tamper with raising boost (controller, tuner, etc) or get a downpipe, you MUST go one step colder, but not before then, IMHO.

[SgtP]

i think i need new plugs... I gapped mine all fine but I want the ones that are pre gapped.

[Raider]

I always run 93, so fuel is not an issue. No boost controlling in my future either. Will seriously consider the step colder. I think I will check the current plugs as it is, or see if I can borrow a local DH to get data logs of how it is running. In fact, I think that is the #1 thing I need to do.

[Raider]

I will be able to borrow a dash hawk this weekend to get some readings! Yay.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 I'm with you on the BOV vent to atmosphere being a bad thing. Running rich and with a screwed up AFR mismatch - oxygen the ECU thinks is present got vented to air rather than entering through the intake valves. But, I think you have your info about heat range benefits backward. Please read the link I posted to NGK's site regarding plug heat ranges. If an engine is fouling plugs, it needs HOTTER heat range. A colder range will make the situation worse. It's always a balancing act between detonation (knocking) which can be helped by going with a colder heat range, and fouling, which requires a hotter plug to keep combustion chamber temps up to better burn off the carbon deposits. I have difficulty believing that there are any circumstances with our engines that would justify going two ranges colder. Maybe with a really big Garrett turbo running very high boost and a super lean tune, that might make sense, but then the internals would have to be beefed up a lot too. IMHO, the key to optimizing spark plugs on these engines on stock tune is to adjust heat range so that there is enough heat to keep the tip clean and no more. Keep gap narrow - .028-.032, and if running any kind of tune or higher boost, drop the gap to .026. If you can't keep the tip clean and still have knock, then raise octane to 93. Use octane boost if necessary. Colder plugs do not prevent fouling, they aggravate it.

thank you for the info =)

from what I read on a site about heat ranges and denso...from what I remember

a 1 step colder plug will keep the heat from transferring from the tip of the plug in the piston chamber to the top of the plug connected to your ignition coil. in doing this you keep the head from being heat soaked from more heat being transferred from the P chamber to the head and by keeping the heat in you help the cleaning process...

now if everyone that is in contact with tuners and such have heard the exact opposite maybe I was a bit too stoned when I read the article but that is what I remembered from the denso heat range chart.

it does sound like it would make sense that a 1 step colder plug would keep temps cooler in the process but thats not what I read like I said i shall try and find the article..

thanx for the info tho bro./...I have 2 step colder plugs and I checked em today just to see if I was dead wrong and my plugs are good..but they look brand new and I installed them like 10000 miles ago

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx thank you for the info =)

You're welcome.

That's why I posted the link direct to NGK's site and their explanation about heat range. It's a good read - all five pages and not just the page I linked to for the illustration. Short summary: If fouling plugs, go hotter. If chasing detonation (knocking) go colder.

General advice from experienced racers and engine builders: go one step colder for each 70 hp in gain, or if you are running higher than stock boost or have a downpipe or a leaned out aftermarket tune with increased boost.

[1badspeed3]

they make a difference

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by 1badspeed3 they make a difference

What? Explain please?