PG manifold heat issues
 

Who here has upgraded the manifold? Mine is on and the turbo outlet is super close to the mani... weve got it wrapped in tinfoil temporarily.

The BEGI ic piping is also run right along on top of it and the thing is hot as shit to the touch. I know its the hotside... but still its got to be affecting it... plus even with the coating im afraid it might melt the piping..

Whats everybodies thoughts on heat wrapping this stuff... or rigging something to combat all that heat now that the shield is gone. I kind of wish Id coated it now.

IMHO regarding wrap:
Pro
1. Heat is energy and every attempt should be made to conserve heat between the head and the turbo.
2. Heat is the enemy of everything else in the engine compartment

Con
1.Header wrap has the reputation of shortening the life of the tubing because of the elevated temperatures that result. I do not know if this is deserved.

Personally, I'd wrap the manifold AND fab a heat shield.
-enganear

Stainless will tarnish and crack under heat wrap.. My Helix DP on my WRX did. It may not have been the highest quality stuff but it wasn't ebay junk.

wrap it!

if anything I would say maybe get it coated if not wrapping it shouldn't be a problem as long as you check it every few months or so I guess. Or like suggested fab up some sort of heat shield. I may be able to fab something for you, My dad owns a sheet metal fabrication company.

Wrapping was cool.. in the 80's... Today, we have Jet-Hot Ceramic coating... It's your best friend these days.

my friend with the "stock" manifold, tim the one where the FMIC was crooked(its straight now) when I touched the coated intercoler pipe up by the manifold it was hot..ouch!..lol he had the stocker manifold so maybe this is no big deal..

what i did....... i used the cloth type heat wrap, but i did not wrap the header. i wrapped it around the turbo outlet and rubber coupler. its been on for 6 months...no problems at all.

What year is this anyway? Has anyone seen my medication?
-enganear

my biggest issue is with that damn intercooler piping. I need piping that doesnt run right over the length of the manifold.

I like the heat shield idea the best. That shit just looks too good back there to wrap it. The thought of it looking like some 1970's basketball players knee all ace bandaged up makes me want a cry.

Next I'd want to put a headband on the turbo..lol

lol funny

maybe the cpe one will work when it comes out but the core looked really small on the car I saw it on yesterday. I didn't see an underhood shot of it though just the exterior of the car.

IIRC the cp-e is supposed to be good to 450 hp.

whens it supposed to be available.... have there been any spy shots?

and where are they gonna run the piping.

So far... the turbo xs, and the atp garrett setups look like their gonna be sitting right on top of the manifold.... or as Driver said.... TOUCHING the mani.

The corksport I dont want because of design. Itd be the worst.

The Cobb will probably never come out.

The Begi is probably the best of the bunch and I have concerns with it. Plus I fear the power restraints. Corky Bell said efficient to 350whp..

Im running out of gaddam options. Next step is to fab something. im frustrated here.

Zach i didnt read this before. Please do something like this. I think there will be huge demand for it. I would grossly overpay!!

PS.... if you could make it out of clear material so I can still show of the header it would make it even better.... perfect...lol

well clear would be expensive if you want aluminum.

There are a pair of CP-e fmics in south Africa right now from what I heard.

i was joking about clear...i didnt know it was even possible. Anything to block that heat would be marvelous, Ive got aluminum foil back there now, for the time being.

If its made out of stainless steel coating it would have had little effect. Reroute the intercooler pipe (should be easy for any shop to do) and get some sort of refective shield built for it. Its the radiant heat that is getting things hot not how close the parts are sitting to the manifold. Get a cheap but effective shield built and it should cut down on the parts that are getting hot.

When I have my end tanks built I will get some pictures up of our FMIC. Its huge and doesn't even come close to the manifold.

300 series stainless is a good choice for heat shielding. It is corrosion resistant, formable, weldable, and has a very poor coefficient of heat conduction. Titanium would be better for heat, but is expensive and very difficult to form, weld, or even drill a hole in.
-enganear

I could do titanium for not much effort but yes price might be pretty high. Who needs to drill holes when you have 6 punch presses and 2 lasers. Not sure if the water jet is strong enough though. And the brake presses could form it easily.

does the pg manifold get any hotter than the stock manifold??....

Punches and shears work well on ti, but not press brakes, the stuff just cracks. I use ti on some of my combat robots. Water jet works very well.

I recommend Titanium Joe .
-enganear

Jesus, this is funny.

Ok, I will IR temp the Stock manifold with the shield on, with the shield off, then with my ceramic coated PG manifold. If I can, I'll also have my friend at the fire department thermal image all three.

Just one problem,.....KEN....I STILL DONT HAVE MY GASKETS, SILICONE IC HOSE, OR CP-e DP!!!!

As soon as I get all my shit, I'll do some thermal testing. Shit, I'll even do an under hood temperature test.

I'm a bit fan of coating over wrapping. Wrapping traps a majority of the heat between the outside metal, and the exhaust wrap. This heat then wears down one side of the metal faster then the other, which can eventually lead to issues down the road. (Depending on quality of metal, wrap/spray coating used)

Coating is done on the inside and outside of the piping, helping to both shield the metal from some heat, as well as equally distributing the heat load for reduced fatigue.

Of course wrap is cheap, coating is not. You also can't coat a DP with a catylatic converter.

We are still waiting on CP-e for the damned downpipes it is taking a really long time with them as of late. I apologize for that.

Coat, then wrap.... then coat and wrap some more! :lew:

referring to turbo manifolds
Jet Hot and the company I used will tell you that coating the inside on turbo applications is not recommended

I'm not an expert on cat converters but I can't see how coating a CP-E catted downpipe with 2000 degree coating would not hold up

Really? Wow I didn't know that. I always assumed the whole point of coating was because you got both the inside and outside.

I think the internal coating has to do with non metallic cats (on the whole catyatlic converter discussion).

I think that as the inside coating starts to "eventually" flake off they don't want to hear any shit for it entering the turbo and/or motor and ruining either/both.... And let's face it - no matter how good of a coating it is, it will eventually take enough of a beating to breakdown under those extreme conditions.

trapping heat in a catalytic converter is a very bad idea it causes the internals to melt and eventually can clog the exhaust system which on a turbo car can actually cause damage to the turbo itself.

So what do manufacturers use for turbo coating? Do they just coat the outsides of the housing? I thought for sure they also coated the inside...maybe thats just the compressor side?

Ceramic coating on the inside helps reduce exhaust gas cooling, keeping the pressure into the turbo higher.

You can coat the down pipe on the outside.

Performance coatings recommends coating the inside on a turbo application.

As long as you do heat cycles on internally coating parts, they wont flake.

is it worth it to get a DP coated?

Naw, usually turbo and manifold is all you need to coat. Everything after that is just a waste of money.

thought so

Though coating will have diminishing returns the further you go down the exhaust stream....

Anytime you can keep the exhaust energy in the piping, and not dissipating out into the surrounding air, is a good thing. Remember, its not just keeping the heat away from the rest of your car, it's maintaining that heat and velocity in the piping itself.

I'm crazy about heat though. I'm the guy who will have an upgraded radiator, coat his manifold, turbo, and DP, and probably wrap the IC piping. Hmm that reminds me...I wonder if mazdamotorsports has a radiator for the ms3.

+1.893

From a thermodynamic standpoint you want to maintain heat going to the turbo. Loss of heat = loss of power. After the turbo it does not matter. The separate issue is avoiding the cooking of everything else nearby.
-enganear:firedevil:

When my PG mani returns from Mississippi with its Extreme Sterling coat I will be able to give a more informed answer to the question.

How much was that Sterling coating? $150?

The Extreme Sterlling was somewhere in the low $200's.

Is this because effective exhaust scavenging can't occur because the turbo is sitting in the exhaust stream? (Unlike an NA engine, which would have headers trying to match up exhaust pulses for effective overlap and scavenging )

If you have a non-catted DP, the coating it inside and out WILL improve exhaust pressure through thhe turbo. Otherwise, once the exhaust exits the turbo, it's gonna hit a thermal wall in the DP and lose pressure, causing upstream losses. Since I'm going with the catted CP-e DP, i'm gonna just have the exterior of the DP coated to reduce some heat loss through radiation.

I wouldn't recommend getting the Catted part coated even on the outside you don't want it ot overheat and melt. I would also ask CP-e if it is OK to do that in terms of warranty.

You are complicating a discussion of heat with a discussion of pulses. Heat management has nothing to do with scavenging.

-Heat is energy.
-The turbocharger works by recovering energy from the exhaust and mechanically transferring it to the intake.
-The exhaust downstream of the turbo is much cooler than the exhaust ahead of the turbo because of the energy removed by the turbo.
-Insulating the exhaust downstream will have no positive effect of energy removed from the exhaust by the turbo. Cooler exhaust is more dense and can theoretically result in reduced backpressure, although I doubt seriously you could actually measure the difference in backpressure caused by insulating the pipe after the turbo.

-enganear

yeah I'm with Enganear. The cost far outways any benefit of coating anything after the turbo

Thanks for the info! Makes perfect sense.

good info here

I went down the wrapped path, and it works very well.

I might wrap the first 12-18'' of my downpipe as well just to keep things cooler in the engine bay (if my CP-E DP ever arrives).

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6.../032908-11.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...032908-111.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...032908-151.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...032908-131.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6.../041308-31.jpg