POLL: which trans fluid and other general Q's

[bast525]

I've read through a couple threads and partially kinda-sorta answered a couple of these questions but was hoping I could get some more definitive answers before I spend money and time that may not need to be spent, or skip something that I really need.

My '07 Speed 3 is sitting at 32,000 miles and I've been doing services at the dealer up til now (just oil change, tire rotation, state inspection). They recommended at my last service that I change out my transmission fluid and wanted $90. I went through the owner's manual and I can't find ANY reference to changing the fluid out at all, let alone at what mileage. After some searching here I found two passing mentions that 30,000 miles is the time to do it... but other posts indicating it is a 'lifetime fluid' and according to Mazda doesn't need to be changed and that's why it's not in the manual... So is there a general consensus that it does need to be changed and at what mileage?

My transmission generally shifts great. I have had issues with it grinding when trying to shift very quickly from 2nd to 3rd, but only rarely. I found that if I am conscious of it, when I go to shift I need to make sure NOT to actively push the shifter over from the 1-2 to 3-4 plane, rather, just let the self centering spring action move the shifter over while I just push straight up into 3rd, then it goes in smooth every time. Also, I don't know why, but with the AccessPort FFS feature I found that when I flat foot shift through the gears this also seems to have greatly helped stop the 2-3 grind. That being said... I do rarely still get the grind when I'm NOT flat foot shifting and actively push the shifter left to right from the 1-2 to 3-4 plane out of habit. Other than that, it is a little balky when very cold (we don't get much lower than 20* F in winter), but I've never driven a manual that wasn't. I have no other problems with shifting or feel.

I am considering changing the fluid myself and see a few recommendations here on what to use, Redline MT90, Amsoil MTG, and the Ford Motorcraft XT-M5-QS, as well just going with the slightly lighter 75W80 factory fil from the Gen 2's vs. the 75W90 of the Gen 1's. There is also some confusion as to whether I need to add a friction modifier for the correct functioning of the LSD or not. If I need the friction modifier, can someone post more info on where I can get this or a part number?

I would LOVE to completely eliminate the 2-3 grind... as rare as it happens, it still scares the shit outta me to think I'm damaging my trans when it DOES happen. However, I went through a similar situation with my SRT-4 and spent a lot of money trying to find the 'right fluid' that would fix the notchy shifting that that car had from the moment I drove it off the dealer lot, and found that none of fluids I tried (including Redline and Amsoil), seemed to make any difference on that car.

So does it need to be changed, how often, and what should I use?

[ChicagoMike]

Originally Posted by bast525 I've read through a couple threads and partially kinda-sorta answered a couple of these questions but was hoping I could get some more definitive answers before I spend money and time that may not need to be spent, or skip something that I really need. My '07 Speed 3 is sitting at 32,000 miles and I've been doing services at the dealer up til now (just oil change, tire rotation, state inspection). They recommended at my last service that I change out my transmission fluid and wanted $90. I went through the owner's manual and I can't find ANY reference to changing the fluid out at all, let alone at what mileage. After some searching here I found two passing mentions that 30,000 miles is the time to do it... but other posts indicating it is a 'lifetime fluid' and according to Mazda doesn't need to be changed and that's why it's not in the manual... So is there a general consensus that it does need to be changed and at what mileage? My transmission generally shifts great. I have had issues with it grinding when trying to shift very quickly from 2nd to 3rd, but only rarely. I found that if I am conscious of it, when I go to shift I need to make sure NOT to actively push the shifter over from the 1-2 to 3-4 plane, rather, just let the self centering spring action move the shifter over while I just push straight up into 3rd, then it goes in smooth every time. Also, I don't know why, but with the AccessPort FFS feature I found that when I flat foot shift through the gears this also seems to have greatly helped stop the 2-3 grind. That being said... I do rarely still get the grind when I'm NOT flat foot shifting and actively push the shifter left to right from the 1-2 to 3-4 plane out of habit. Other than that, it is a little balky when very cold (we don't get much lower than 20* F in winter), but I've never driven a manual that wasn't. I have no other problems with shifting or feel. I am considering changing the fluid myself and see a few recommendations here on what to use, Redline MT90, Amsoil MTG, and the Ford Motorcraft XT-M5-QS, as well just going with the slightly lighter 75W80 factory fil from the Gen 2's vs. the 75W90 of the Gen 1's. There is also some confusion as to whether I need to add a friction modifier for the correct functioning of the LSD or not. I would LOVE to completely eliminate the 2-3 grind... as rare as it happens, it still scares the shit outta me to think I'm damaging my trans when it DOES happen. However, I went through a similar situation with my SRT-4 and spent a lot of money trying to find the 'right fluid' that would fix the notchy shifting that that car had from the moment I drove it off the dealer lot, and found that none of fluids I tried (including Redline and Amsoil), seemed to make any difference on that car. So does it need to be changed, how often, and what should I use?

Ford Motorcraft XT-M5-QS

Grind is gone. I had the same problem. Took about a week for it to "soak in" and now it shifts like butter.

[Sacrilicious]

+1 on the XT-M5-QS. it's the best stuff you'll find out there, and even without any friction modifier, it's pretty darn civil with the LSD whine. pretty moderate to minor when cold, and almost entirely gone when warmed up. i have tried redline and amsoil, and both caused significantly more LSD chatter. all three (redline, amsoil, and XT-M5-QS) completely eliminate the 2nd->3rd gear grind. i would recommend the motorcraft without friction modifier, because you don't want to grind to come back.

[bast525]

I was reading the 'transmission cured' thread and the Motorcraft stuff sounded great until I got to this post:

Originally Posted by Mizzle (quoted from the Bob is the Oil Guy website) "That fluid, XT-M5-QS, is not GL4. It says it is suitable where GL4 is specified. It is made by Castrol and is not available in the US under the Castrol label. Ford specifies it for use in the Contour/Mystique/Cougar/Focus MTX75S 5 speed manual transaxle. It is very nearly a 10w40 synthetic motor oil but with a very high TBN. Last I knew, Royal Purple catalogued their 10w40 synthetic motor oil as their recommended replacement although many Contour owners use RP's manual transmission oil instead. XT-M5-QS works especially well in the MTX75 transaxle, but I would be reluctant to use it in other transmissions. It's additive package falls way short of that in other gear oils"

That had go from 99% positive that I was jumping on the Motorcraft bandwagon to not being so sure...

Oh and regarding LSD whine, I ONLY get it when turning when the trans is cold. Pretty much only when pulling out of my parking spot, otherwise I don't ever hear it.

[Sacrilicious]

well, if it's not suitable for use in our cars, then there're a lot of us who should need transmission rebuilds. since it's not the case, i wouldn't worry.

[silvapain]

I use Pennzoil Synchomesh fluid. It's thinner than the Motorcraft stuff, and possibly a little too thin for summer use, but my shifts are very smooth even with the stock knob and no counterweight.


Tapadatass

[bast525]

Originally Posted by Sacrilicious well, if it's not suitable for use in our cars, then there're a lot of us who should need transmission rebuilds. since it's not the case, i wouldn't worry.

hahah yeah from that other thread it seems a lot of guys do love the stuff.

What is the cause of the 2-3 grind anyways? On the SRT, it was caused by the shift forks being made of brass and bending or wearing out with hard shifting. My SRT did it on my initial drive home from the dealer lot with 7 miles on the odometer. By the time I got rid of the car at 16,000 miles it had gotten significantly worse. That, and several other problems are what prompted me to trade in on the Mazda.

EDIT: also, what about the change interval? 30k?

[Sacrilicious]

here's the thread he's quoting, btw:

Ford Synthetic Manual Trans Fluid - Bob Is The Oil Guy

here's all the information i need to convince myself that XT-M5-QS is fine for our transmission:

Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid

as for the 2->3 grind, it's mainly caused by the friction modifier. our prob is that our trans fluid lubes the LSD too, which needs to the friction modifier to make the fluid more slippery to avoid the chatter. from what i've read, the chatter isn't anything to worry about, so that leaves the other side effect of the extra slippery fluid: the synchros have a harder time gripping. in our case, the 2->3 gear synchros are the most affected. this is very bad, because whenever you grind, you're killing your synchros, so the motorcraft is probably saving you from a prematurely-worn synchro.

[bast525]

Originally Posted by Sacrilicious here's the thread he's quoting, btw: [url=http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1282963] as for the 2->3 grind, it's mainly caused by the friction modifier. our prob is that our trans fluid lubes the LSD too, which needs to the friction modifier to make the fluid more slippery to avoid the chatter. from what i've read, the chatter isn't anything to worry about, so that leaves the other side effect of the extra slippery fluid: the synchros have a harder time gripping. in our case, the 2->3 gear synchros are the most affected. this is very bad, because whenever you grind, you're killing your synchros, so the motorcraft is probably saving you from a prematurely-worn synchro.

Fix one problem cause another... that sucks. I've probably ground it 2-3 dozen times. So far, it still shifts smoothly into 3rd, but I have no doubt I've done some damage there.

Any idea why it doesn't happen when I shift the way I described in the first post? Letting the shifter self-center to the 3-4 plane and only applying forward pressure to push up into 3rd? It never grinds when I do that no matter how quickly I shift.

Oh and thank you for the links, greatly appreciated, reading through the BITOG thread now.

[Sacrilicious]

the way you described in the first post slows the shift down, which gives the synchro time to grip. it's only when you really shift fast that you run into trouble. regardless, you don't want that to be a potential problem, so motorcraft 4tw!

[Ferg]

how much friction modifier are you supposed to add with the motorcraft?

[bast525]

Originally Posted by Ferg how much friction modifier are you supposed to add with the motorcraft?

Consensus seems to be none, if I'm reading correctly?

Sacrilicious do you have a recommendation for where to get the best deal on the Motorcraft?

[Sacrilicious]

yes, you don't need to use any friction modifier with the motorcraft. use a few oz if you're THAT bothered by the LSD chatter, but make sure you add it 1oz at a time and check to see when you've added just enough to make the chatter disappear.

[Ferg]

only whine i get is when im in reverse. that seems to be the only loud whine i get. i dont know if its the lsd, but thats my guess. i just want smoother shifting into second at low speeds, and better shifting in the winter. -20* F isnt unheard of here.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Ferg only whine i get is when im in reverse. that seems to be the only loud whine i get. i dont know if its the lsd, but thats my guess. i just want smoother shifting into second at low speeds, and better shifting in the winter. -20* F isnt unheard of here.

Reverse is straight-cut, as opposed to the other gears which are helical. Straight-cut gears naturally whine.


Tapadatass

[bast525]

yeah reverse whine is kinda normal...

LSD whine... some guys say they have it really bad, I only rarely notice it when car is cold and I'm turning while moving. I've never had any chatter and have no idea what it would even sound like. I'll trade noise for grinding synchros any day though.

[asall667]

Use the Motorcraft stuff...and so far votes are 16 for this and that should tell u something

Buy 3 quarts of motorcraft stuff ($18 a quart X 3 =$54 and change it at 30k-60k-90k etc....oh and about the weight, Just use that part number u mentioned u should be fine.

Do not use FM, as rarely anyone used it and so far all have great results

Do it yourself and save $

Thanks for bring this thread up for others to follow.

[Sacrilicious]

Originally Posted by bast525 yeah reverse whine is kinda normal... LSD whine... some guys say they have it really bad, I only rarely notice it when car is cold and I'm turning while moving. I've never had any chatter and have no idea what it would even sound like. I'll trade noise for grinding synchros any day though.

to clarify: i'm referring to the same thing when i talk about LSD "whine" vs LSD "chatter". both are referring to the whining noise when you apply power while turning.

[Ferg]

ok. this is good shit man. ill make sure to get it as soon as necessary. and ill be letting yall know what results i get.

[amc5]

Just got my MS3 back from Mazda. They changed out alot of parts in transmission including a complete 2nd gear and synchros. Unfortunately, Now, when I turn I have whine/roar so bad it sounds like they put NO fluid in it. So loud sounds like the tire is scrapping the bumper. Especially turning right. Just makes me wonder, how could it sound that bad? There is no way it sounded that bad when it was brand new. Now I am thinking about just taking the new fluid out and putting this Motorcraft in.

[Sacrilicious]

dude, take that shit back to them and have them do it again. there's obviously something wrong, so they need to fuckin fix it.

[AtTheDriveIn]

I run Redline. My shifts are very smooth from using the stock stuff. The only complaint is during cold weather. Shifts are a bit rought until the fluid warms up. BTW, the only thing that needs friction modifiers is the MS6s diffs.

[09Speed3Z]

I changed mine today with Royal Purple 75w-90. @08.5MS3 suggested it.

The grind and diff whine are all but gone now. Like others said it should take about a week to settle in so don't expect it to go from crap to perfection right away.

XT-M5-QS with the Ford (4oz.) limited slip additive taking the place of the requisite amount of trans fluid. Will change again in 30k miles.

Best maintenance decision I have made thus far. No lsd chatter... zero gear grind. Works like a charm.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by amc5 Just got my MS3 back from Mazda. They changed out alot of parts in transmission including a complete 2nd gear and synchros. Unfortunately, Now, when I turn I have whine/roar so bad it sounds like they put NO fluid in it. So loud sounds like the tire is scrapping the bumper. Especially turning right. Just makes me wonder, how could it sound that bad? There is no way it sounded that bad when it was brand new. Now I am thinking about just taking the new fluid out and putting this Motorcraft in.

If it happens when you turn right, then it's most likely one of the CV's on the left (driver's) halfshaft.


Tapadatass

[amc5]

yeah, taking it back.. thought it might get quiet after fluid gets through system

[magicka]

I also went with Royal Purple 75W-90, no modifier. It was a big improvement over the stock stuff. Next change, I'll probably give the Motorcraft honey a try.

[Ferg]

@codyb154

[maaazda]

Originally Posted by MS3go XT-M5-QS with the Ford (4oz.) limited slip additive taking the place of the requisite amount of trans fluid. Will change again in 30k miles. Best maintenance decision I have made thus far. No lsd chatter... zero gear grind. Works like a charm.

I am using the same mix here too no issues what so ever gear box is super quite shifting is excellent .

[vrspeed10]

No surprise in this poll

[2008MS3H]

where are ya'll ordering the Motocraft from?
i did a search and only found a couple places that sell it. I couldn't find any of the usual stores (Autozone, Advanced, O'Reilly, etc.) that have it - found it at CFM (central florida motorsports) and one other site.

[pinkcheese]

I went with royal purple 75w-90 been using it for on both of my transmissions now 40k miles. no modifiers where added. The 6speed trans has been drained 3times in the last year and a half and there are no signs of increased wear.

[ericm979]

I bought the Motorcraft from the local Ford dealer.

I've used Amsoil, Redline and now Motorcraft. Shifting with it is far superior to the others and to the stock fluid. Unlike the other two, there is very little whining from the limited slip (and that is probably only on my car because I used the Amsoil and Redline for too long and wore the clutches or something). Shifts when cold are much better than with the MT-90.

I have not seen any signs of wear in any of the oils I have drained. But the oil does degrade over time- both the friction modifier and the oil viscosity degrade as the molecules break apart.

I'd replace the trans oil every 30k miles or so.

[falcon]

if you haven't been changing it at regular intervals since day one, don't ever change your fluid. Because when they take the old stuff out, its thinker due to break down, and wear materials that are in it, and the parts are going to be worn, when they put in new fluid, it to thin, and won't lubricate the already worn pieces.

I bought my car at 97k km. Had my fluid changed at 101k, and it caused some very loud diff whine when turning tight and slow, took it back to the dealership, and they tore it down, and said the diff was a mess when they opened it. I bought an extended warranty with my car through Coverage One (Wouldn't recommend unless you want a hassle) and they went out and found a used tranny with 100k on it, and they put new fluid it in, and the dealership obviously didn't tear down and inspect, cause its making the exact same noise but worse, and it clunks in 2nd and 3nd. Keep in mind mazda recommended I try changing the tranny fluid because of some stiff shifting I was having, and nobody thought to mention that it might ruin the differential....?? So I am currently fighting to get myself either a new tranny, or at least a rebuild, so that when the new fluid goes in, it can do its job.

[Jakeypoo]

Originally Posted by falcon if you haven't been changing it at regular intervals since day one, don't ever change your fluid. Because when they take the old stuff out, its thinker due to break down, and wear materials that are in it, and the parts are going to be worn, when they put in new fluid, it to thin, and won't lubricate the already worn pieces

I know 3 years old!



I'm at 111k miles and about to change for the first time with Motorcraft.. Nothing is wrong with the transmission and I was just looking for torque specs when came across this. The last post removed the warm and fuzzy feeling I normally get when I work on my car.



As usual the Internet does not disappoint with SAE masters and serviece techs contradicting each other, not to mention at least 5 theories as to what happens in this situation.



What does MSF think about this on our MS3s? Other than I should have changed it 3 times by now.



Found the torque specs and I'm about to get to work. I'll let you know if clutch goes out tomorrow.


Edit: 45miles later and still looking good. On a side note after 111k miles the factory fluid was still golden and not cloudy. I did not notice any improvement other than less chatter that has always existed on my car.

[PurplFox]

I think Falcon is/was confused with a slush box. In an old auto if the fluid hasn't been maintained properly, the clean fluid has a tendency to cause the clutches to slip leading to failure. Ask me how I know.

[Jakeypoo]

You are probably right. I didn't like the thread ending on a sour note like that. Maybe the "never change it" votes will go up. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bast525]

So, to follow up on this old question, I've been running the Motorcraft XT-M5-QS fluid for a couple years now and it is awesome. I have not ground 3rd on a quick shift even once with this fluid. It can be a tiny bit notchy in cold weather but otherwise it is awesome and well worth swapping to.