This was posted on the other forum, what do you guys think?

[Betelgeuse]

blown engine - Mazda Forums

Some people post with so little info. Do you think some of these motors are just blowing without any signs, mods? I mean anything is possible, but I find some of these stories fishy.

[Haltech]

I betcha he had a bad fuel pump and probably one of the many cars, that needed that TSB done. You only throw the rod while leaning out the car, which could easily happen with the pump not operating correctly.

[Betelgeuse]

But wouldn't he ping like crazy if this was the case? And shouldn't the car pull timing as a result?

[mexicant]

Originally Posted by Betelgeuse But wouldn't he ping like crazy if this was the case? And shouldn't the car pull timing as a result?

The car should and probably did, but it was too late. The recall is for the solenoid because it reacts too slowly. So if you hit the gas, the car might be really lean for split second until the pump catches up.

[redrocketz]

you know what would make you guys shit your pants?


















The amount of horizontal motion the crank has brand new out of the crate. it is crank walk waiting to happen so don't be riding that clutch at the light...

[Jesse MS3GT]

Originally Posted by 08ms3bm The car should and probably did, but it was too late. The recall is for the solenoid because it reacts too slowly. So if you hit the gas, the car might be really lean for split second until the pump catches up.

I have noticed in my datalogs my afrs are around 13 for more than a couple seconds when heading into full boost....

[ptperformance]

Could just be a quality control issue.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Betelgeuse blown engine - Mazda Forums Some people post with so little info. Do you think some of these motors are just blowing without any signs, mods? I mean anything is possible, but I find some of these stories fishy.

We have a local that popped his motor. May have been running a little on the unsafe side but these motor seem to pop really easy, even on the stock turbo.

[JumpingJackson]

If only i could see the amount of miles left on the motor like on Death Note. hehe

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson If only i could see the amount of miles left on the motor like on Death Note. hehe

Thats funny, lol.

[enganear]

Why could this not have been an over-rev failure? How do you tell an over-rev from a lean failure? Are we always seeing the same rod failure (cylinder number)?
-enganear

[Betelgeuse]

Originally Posted by ptperformance We have a local that popped his motor. May have been running a little on the unsafe side but these motor seem to pop really easy, even on the stock turbo.

I like to see some real info not speculation. 'Really easy' would mean the forums full of popped motors which isn't the case. When you say 'a little on the unsafe side' what does that mean exactly? That's what I'm trying to get at.

[Crossbow]

For a short time I was privy to one of the online service manager forums for my area. Someone posted a similar thread on a different forum (different model mazda) with similar claims.

"I was just driving, and it blew...100% stock"

Just so happened they took the car into one of those dealerships that happened to be on the forum....basically the guy on the forum was lying out his ass.

Can't really trust much of what you read on the forums these days...everyone seems to try to cover their asses more then being forthcoming with the truth.

[digitaljedi]

fact remains these motors pop easier than other four bangers.

[div2]

Originally Posted by Crossbow For a short time I was privy to one of the online service manager forums for my area. Someone posted a similar thread on a different forum (different model mazda) with similar claims. "I was just driving, and it blew...100% stock" Just so happened they took the car into one of those dealerships that happened to be on the forum....basically the guy on the forum was lying out his ass. Can't really trust much of what you read on the forums these days...everyone seems to try to cover their asses more then being forthcoming with the truth.

I'm friends with a guy who used to be BMW NA's ///M Brand Manager. Several years ago he told me about a guy who had just bought a new 1995 M3 with the five speed manual. The guy claimed that he was driving down the interstate when the motor "just quit". The dealer interrogated the ECU and found that the last recorded engne speed was 9000(!) rpm. Can you say selecting the wrong gear, as in "The Money Shift"?

[bykeryder4life]

ouch

[Crossbow]

You'll enjoy this. This is a tribute owner complaining about "brake noise."

Owner threw a huge massive fit over how this has never happened before, blah blah, expects it to be covered under warranty, blah blah blah.

Pictures speak louder then words.


Not a single brake service in the vehicles 75k+ miles.

I'm not saying that guy is lying...I'm just saying that when motors pop, not all of them are from innocent owners...

[Haltech]

holy shit!

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by enganear Why could this not have been an over-rev failure? How do you tell an over-rev from a lean failure? Are we always seeing the same rod failure (cylinder number)? -enganear

Over rev will be a pull apart break that has very little twist or deffection in the rod break point. A lean failure will show up on the piston and the rod will normally have a small twist in it at the break point. No idea on the cyl number that fails.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Betelgeuse I like to see some real info not speculation. 'Really easy' would mean the forums full of popped motors which isn't the case. When you say 'a little on the unsafe side' what does that mean exactly? That's what I'm trying to get at.

Sorry should have compaired it to the SRT4 motor of the Cobalt motor. Those have kind of set the standard for great numbers on the stock internals.

Unsafe being AFR's were not being monitored.

[eddelgado]

Guys can you give me an idea of how the lean failure leads to the blown motor? I can imagine that lean will lead to hotter termperatures. Is this causing detonation that is then pushing the piston against the crank and causing the rod to fail?

Is this a catastrophic process or is repeated detonation leading to this after a certain amount of time?

Ed

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by eddelgado Guys can you give me an idea of how the lean failure leads to the blown motor? I can imagine that lean will lead to hotter termperatures. Is this causing detonation that is then pushing the piston against the crank and causing the rod to fail? Is this a catastrophic process or is repeated detonation leading to this after a certain amount of time? Ed

Lean = Heat!! To much heat, leads to detonation... detonation will make your rods sing the cling of death, than exit side left.

When a rod detonates, its literally vibrating and wobbling inside the cylinder.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by enganear Why could this not have been an over-rev failure? How do you tell an over-rev from a lean failure? Are we always seeing the same rod failure (cylinder number)? -enganear

Every one that I've seen has been #4 cyl. If I remember with the PG Exahust manifold there were some qualities unique to the #4 that weren't in the others.. check the thread in PG's forum on 247.. Ken or someone talks about it.

[jonscapri]

Originally Posted by TheDoc Every one that I've seen has been #4 cyl. If I remember with the PG Exhaust manifold there were some qualities unique to the #4 that weren't in the others.. check the thread in PG's forum on 247.. Ken or someone talks about it.

I know that the EGR valve is right there by #4 cylinders. I was taking a look at that when I was replacing my turbo.

As for blowing engines. My opinion is that there is more user related problems because people won't admit to anything. I recently had to put a new motor in a neighbor's Toyota. 115K no oil changes. Let's just say people like that make me money.

Also out of all the blown motors I've seen I would say that about 98% it was the owner's fault. You know over revving, running lean, poor fuel quality, and the list goes on. If you want to modify the MZR engine I would be careful it does have weaker rods than what you will see in a similar application. My suggestion if you was a go fast toy get something cheaper so when you do blow it up you won't feel as bad when it comes time to fixing it.

[winniep]

Originally Posted by jonscapri I know that the EGR valve is right there by #4 cylinders. I was taking a look at that when I was replacing my turbo. As for blowing engines. My opinion is that there is more user related problems because people won't admit to anything. I recently had to put a new motor in a neighbor's Toyota. 115K no oil changes. Let's just say people like that make me money. Also out of all the blown motors I've seen I would say that about 98% it was the owner's fault. You know over revving, running lean, poor fuel quality, and the list goes on. If you want to modify the MZR engine I would be careful it does have weaker rods than what you will see in a similar application. My suggestion if you was a go fast toy get something cheaper so when you do blow it up you won't feel as bad when it comes time to fixing it.

I think about this everytime I mod this POS....uhmmm...I mean MS3. All I want is roughly 350WHP and it is starting to look like even that is gonna be a problem. Guess I could return it to stock, sell off all my mods, and get like an 04 SRT-4. Put me a Stg 3 on it and call it a day. Sure wouldn't look near as sweet as an MS3 though............ no smoke would be a plus in hindsight...

[Haltech]

Bigger fuel pump, a Gt35R and and Meth injection system with a few weeks of mellow driving may change your mind.

[bombdotcom]

ya i was looking into this on devils own subforum, but do you guys think a meth injection kit would be very helpful in preventing a blown motor??? pretty cheap and from what ive heard nothing but great things. i know you said youre instlling one soon haltech

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by bombdotcom ya i was looking into this on devils own subforum, but do you guys think a meth injection kit would be very helpful in preventing a blown motor??? pretty cheap and from what ive heard nothing but great things. i know you said youre instlling one soon haltech

Of course it will... youre adding higher octane and cooling the boost temperatures.

[winniep]

Nothing better for a turbo motor than the highest octane you can get. Sport Compact Mag I think it was......... I have the issue.............they did a race gas comparo and got right at 100 WHP EXTRA out of their project SR20DET. They were able to up the boost and timing dramatically, all thanks to higher octane. Sooooooo..... you could view a meth kit as, not so much a power adder (the option IS there), but more like an insurance policy for your boosted beast. I know I will be taking out a policy of my own REAL soon..........

[4thStroke]

Its not detonation thats killing these motors silently, its pre-ignition. A buddy of mine went through with his supercharged 04 Ford Ranger. He told me, "it detonated and I couldnt hear it."

Pre-ignition is when the fuel starts to burn while the piston is on its way up, but still relatively low in the cylinder. It creates a very warm burn and will either burn a hole in your piston, or take out the rod. These are the cases we are seeing with the MZR.

You will NOT fail to hear deontation. If you are unsure of what it sounds like, think of having marbles, coins, BBs, etc in your cylinder. I have heard it, on way too many occasions, but have never been a victim of a failed motor from it (luckily, and it was never with the Mazda).

Detonation is the sudden ignition of the fuel. Quite opposite of pre-ignition, almost. It ignites too quick and the noise you hear is the explosion causing resonating in the cylinder and causes the vibration that Haltech mentioned.

Pre-ignition can cause detonation, and often times does. A lot of people are experiencing no symptom blow ups... pre-ignition FTL!

hope it helped... if not... oh well.

[winniep]

Well, I have heard detonation a couple times....... with this car . It wasn't bad and I got out of it IMMEDIATELY every time, but it still isn't a good thing to hear. Since the TMIC, I have not heard it so I am thinking it was a heatsoak issue. Hopefully not too much damage was done..........

[4thStroke]

Some poeple do hear detonation with this car, other dont, I have not. What kind of fuel are you using? What octane? I use 92 octane from Cheveron. I wonder if these motors are very sensative to what kind of fuel is used.

Its not rare to stick a manual in a high gear and put the throttle down hear detonation. Did you hear it during a hard pass or while lugging the motor?

[Exhaust Depot]

Detonation is and sounds exactly like a diesel engine.


THe pre-ignition is a killer. Lets make up some numbers here.

100% means your piston is at its max travel. At say 30% the piston is going up yet you have an explosion inside the cyl which is actiong down on that piston which is still trying to go up. Thats what causes the boom boom boom on the rod. A piston usually comes up say 90 % before the spark fires. By the time the mixrure starts to expand the piston s hould be starting to head down so the explosion causes it to go down and create some vroom vroom.

[Ziggo]

Detonation happens after the spark fires, and generally after 75% of the burn has been completed. It is caused by the pressure wave of the burning fuel further compressing the unburnt fuel towards the piston. this causes it to ignite, and the sound is the pressure wave of the spark ignited burn slapping into the pressure wave of the compression ignited burn.

Pre-Ignition is caused by a spark plug that is too hot, carbon deposits, usually on the exhaust valve, or a too-lean mixture.

[4thStroke]

From my experience, at low RPM, detonation sounds like a diesel motor. At high RPM, not so much, but rather the marbles in the cylinder sound.

[redrocketz]

it seems to be that the cylinder all the way against the passenger side is the one that fails the most. Wether it be a Speed6 or Speed3.

[Haltech]

Which is probably the leanest cylinder of the 4. It could be the lack or incoming air through the intake...

[4thStroke]

How would lack of air create a lean condition?

[Haltech]

Starving should be a better term. It will throw off the entire car is youre starving one cylinder.

[cld12pk2go]

But if we are starving #4 of air, that means it will be running rich...

Does not compute...