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MazdaSpeed 3 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline Discussion of engine, tranny and drivelines.


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 Old 03-09-2010, 02:35 PM   #1
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Default Rebuilding Motor

Ok well I have recently purchased another motor (Head, Shortblock, Crank & Stock Internals)I blew rod #1 through my block in my car. What things will I need to sucessfully get a running motor again?

This is what I have as of right now for the things that I will need.

1. New oil pump
2. New main bearings
3. New rod bearings
4. Cometic head gasket
5. Machine cyclinder walls on shortblock (what are the specs?)
6. New crank bolt
7. Injector seals
8. Thrust washer

please suggest or add things to my list if i am missing something

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 Old 03-09-2010, 02:42 PM   #2
 
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thrust washer, chain, crank bolt, a whole engine gasket set, injector seals. Just call mark @ Street unit.
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 Old 03-09-2010, 02:43 PM   #3
 
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How many miles are on this motor you bought? I dont see the need to freshen up a motor with stock parts given how low miles are on all of the motors. I could see putting rods in the motor especially since you already threw one rod out of a motor.
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 Old 03-09-2010, 03:19 PM   #4
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A little offtopic but how did your first motor blow? I sent you a PM asking for some details if you get a minute.
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 Old 03-09-2010, 04:04 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by mtnrunner View Post
How many miles are on this motor you bought? I dont see the need to freshen up a motor with stock parts given how low miles are on all of the motors. I could see putting rods in the motor especially since you already threw one rod out of a motor.

The motor that I bought has roughly 28,xxx miles on it. I have a blown motor also if I didn't make that clear. The cylinder walls look like they could be machined again. All the internals with the motor that I bought came disassembled. So I don't know what rod and piston goes into what cylinder which is why I want to machine the block. So that I don't lose compression from not knowing what internals came from which cylinder etc.

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson View Post
thrust washer, chain, crank bolt, a whole engine gasket set, injector seals. Just call mark @ Street unit.
Can't i use the chain from my old block?

Originally Posted by Lex View Post
A little offtopic but how did your first motor blow? I sent you a PM asking for some details if you get a minute.
I don't exactly know it overboosted the day before a couple times. And also smoked horribly the day that it blew up. But I did take my fuel rail off and saw that my third injector seal was fucked. My guess is that it was because of a shitty stock tune with CPE reflashes running just about fully bolted. I had a upgraded CDHPFP and a 255 walboro.

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 Old 03-09-2010, 08:28 PM   #6
 
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Ok, i get what your saying. would you consider getting forged rods to put in there? It seems too easy to do right now, although i do understand its another 800 bucks.
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 Old 03-09-2010, 09:21 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by holeinmypocket View Post
The motor that I bought has roughly 28,xxx miles on it. I have a blown motor also if I didn't make that clear. The cylinder walls look like they could be machined again. All the internals with the motor that I bought came disassembled. So I don't know what rod and piston goes into what cylinder which is why I want to machine the block. So that I don't lose compression from not knowing what internals came from which cylinder etc.



Can't i use the chain from my old block?



I don't exactly know it overboosted the day before a couple times. And also smoked horribly the day that it blew up. But I did take my fuel rail off and saw that my third injector seal was fucked. My guess is that it was because of a shitty stock tune with CPE reflashes running just about fully bolted. I had a upgraded CDHPFP and a 255 walboro.
When it was smoking, the rod that broke was already bent.

Good luck with the new motor. Too bad it's not together because all the car needs are some new rods.
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 Old 03-09-2010, 11:33 PM   #8
 
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lex I have always had some questions about rebuilding an engine.
an engine that hasn't blown up does replacing the rods and pistons avoid it from blowing or is there more then just that to engine rebuilding?
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 Old 03-10-2010, 02:07 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by mtnrunner View Post
Ok, i get what your saying. would you consider getting forged rods to put in there? It seems too easy to do right now, although i do understand its another 800 bucks.
The only rods that I could afford right now are the k1 rods. I don't know if I want to get the arias pistons/pauter rod combo. I might decide but i don't know for sure.
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 Old 03-10-2010, 07:28 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by manelscout4life View Post
lex I have always had some questions about rebuilding an engine.
an engine that hasn't blown up does replacing the rods and pistons avoid it from blowing or is there more then just that to engine rebuilding?
engine rebuilding can include/exclude certain items depending on the wear of the motor and what is weak. If the motor is new and holds good compression, replacing just rods will prevent the blow-ups we see here and is the cheapest alternative.
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 Old 03-10-2010, 11:51 AM   #11
 
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o alright thanks alot
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 Old 03-10-2010, 02:29 PM   #12
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so far this is what we have came up with

1. New oil pump
2. New main bearings
3. New rod bearings
4. Cometic head gasket
5. Machine cyclinder walls on shortblock (what are the specs?)
6. New crank bolt
7. Injector seals
8. Thrust washer
----------------------
So my next question what forged rods can you use with stock pistons. Besides expensive ass carillo rods?
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 Old 03-10-2010, 02:50 PM   #13
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I would stick to OEM parts if they work well. I would keep the OEM headgasket.
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 Old 03-10-2010, 03:18 PM   #14
 
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i'd go with the PTP head gasket.

PTP injector seals and rods and pistons combo then you shouldnt have a worry.

really makes no sense at all to replace just the rods for forged rods and not pistons as well.

I've seen many thread of blown motors not from just the rods bending but pistons cracking and melting as well.
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 Old 03-11-2010, 10:42 PM   #15
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I read somewhere that K1 rods are doable with stock pistons. Might look into it.
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 Old 03-11-2010, 10:53 PM   #16
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lex, if u plan on changing the rods/pistons do u need to change the oil pump and change the bearings? sorry for the noob question
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 Old 03-12-2010, 03:39 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by nighthawk358 View Post
lex, if u plan on changing the rods/pistons do u need to change the oil pump and change the bearings? sorry for the noob question
Not if ur engine is blown if it's blown then you will need a new oil pump and bearings. But if your engine is fine then I don't see the need to replace either.
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 Old 03-12-2010, 07:54 AM   #18
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IMO you need to do new bearings if your doing the rods. Oil pump is safe to reuse though if it's not damaged.
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 Old 03-12-2010, 07:59 AM   #19
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Bearings are a must. Don't cheap out here.
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 Old 03-12-2010, 08:05 AM   #20
 
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could you take the head off in the car and change the rods and use the stock pistons ?? ( put back in the same cylinders of course ) can it be done.. can you tighten the rod bolts from below ? was just wondering..
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 Old 03-12-2010, 08:50 AM   #21
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I think whether or not it can be done in the car is still up in the air. You can definitely take the head off in the car, and supposedly you can time it in the car.


Just no body has done it yet. And IMO it would be much much easier to just pull the motor and make life easy.
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 Old 03-12-2010, 05:23 PM   #22
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Well just bought a atp 3071r. So forged internals are next lol.
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 Old 03-12-2010, 06:15 PM   #23
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cancel that order for the atp turbo.. unless they fixed the problem with them creepin..
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 Old 03-12-2010, 08:37 PM   #24
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Gonna run EWG on it, so it shouldn't be a problem.
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 Old 03-12-2010, 08:45 PM   #25
 
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Originally Posted by i <3 bitches View Post
cancel that order for the atp turbo.. unless they fixed the problem with them creepin..
anyone buying a 3071 or bigger should not run IWG..otherwise they are fuckin stupid
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 Old 03-12-2010, 09:07 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx View Post
anyone buying a 3071 or bigger should not run IWG..otherwise they are fuckin stupid
why? if the IWG bleeds off the exhaust ok, what is the need for EWG?
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 Old 03-12-2010, 09:10 PM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by i <3 bitches View Post
why? if the IWG bleeds off the exhaust ok, what is the need for EWG?
think about it....

the more boost u make the less efficient ur tiny lil ATP fail IWG will bleed exhaust gasses off..

and if ur argument is ur not making big power or dont want to..then umm why even go with a BT..

go with a tiny lil gt28 or a SST
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 Old 03-12-2010, 10:35 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by i <3 bitches View Post
why? if the IWG bleeds off the exhaust ok, what is the need for EWG?
Like what speedsixx said EWG is the way to go with the ATP turbos. They suck cuz they are stock flanged but that is the way I want to go. I just want something that is going to bolt straight up to my CS DP and PG Mani, with no hassle or custom route. Flame me if you want but I already am spending a shit on this build. Ne ways back on topic.
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 Old 03-13-2010, 01:39 AM   #29
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You need to add head and main studs, flywheel bolts, and a balance shaft delete kit. If you have taken the cam sprocket bolts off, apparently they need to be replaced as well since I am hearing that they are stretch to yield type bolts. If you are reusing the stock pistons, I would get new rings and new .... .. .... . .. lock things for the pins... im drawing a blank on what they are called.

You can delete the oil pump from the list.
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 Old 03-13-2010, 01:44 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
You need to add head and main studs, flywheel bolts, and a balance shaft delete kit. If you have taken the cam sprocket bolts off, apparently they need to be replaced as well since I am hearing that they are stretch to yield type bolts. If you are reusing the stock pistons, I would get new rings and new .... .. .... . .. lock things for the pins... im drawing a blank on what they are called.

You can delete the oil pump from the list.
I can't use my oil pump from my blown motor. So yes I will need a new one for the motor that I am having installed. I am taking my BSD kit from my old motor it's still good. New rings yes of course, I didn't know about the cam sprocket bolts I will have to look into that one. Thanks for the info! This is a list that I have came up with but isn't finalized.

ARP Head Studs- $200
Main Bearings- $71.02
Rod Bearings- $68.41
Cometic Head Gasket (or use oem)- $83.50
Carillo Rods- $400-$900
K1 Rods - $405
Pauter Rods- $800
Arias Pistons/Pauter Rods - $1200
MT90-$14.00 X 3
Oil Pump-$170+
Thrust Washer- $64.05
Arp Main Studs- $126.14
OEM Crank Pulley Bolt- $14.90
Clevite Main Bearing/Thrust Washer Set- $85.00
Labor or DIY = SHOP???? - DIY-I have my mechanic doing it all for $500 with my help also.
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 Old 03-13-2010, 03:45 AM   #31
 
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A car with the BSD done that blew up ZOMG....
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 Old 03-13-2010, 05:38 AM   #32
 
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Originally Posted by mdd5148 View Post
A car with the BSD done that blew up ZOMG....
lol....

BSD doesnt exempt you from blowing.

it's better for high rpm fluid circulation and it helps prevent rods hitting a huge chunk of bull shit metel in the oil pan. plus what? 5 chp? =)

In my opinion blowing is mainly due to 2 things...low rpm, high trq weakening rods over time and then hydro locking by pooled up oil getting sucked into combustion chamber and bending a rizod.

OP good luck with you build..

please just do yourself a fav and buy a piston and rod combo...
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 Old 03-13-2010, 08:43 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx View Post
lol....

BSD doesnt exempt you from blowing.

it's better for high rpm fluid circulation and it helps prevent rods hitting a huge chunk of bull shit metel in the oil pan. plus what? 5 chp? =)

In my opinion blowing is mainly due to 2 things...low rpm, high trq weakening rods over time and then hydro locking by pooled up oil getting sucked into combustion chamber and bending a rizod.

OP good luck with you build..

please just do yourself a fav and buy a piston and rod combo...

I am looking into them just gotta save for a month here
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 Old 03-13-2010, 09:46 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx View Post
think about it....

the more boost u make the less efficient ur tiny lil ATP fail IWG will bleed exhaust gasses off..

and if ur argument is ur not making big power or dont want to..then umm why even go with a BT..

go with a tiny lil gt28 or a SST
um... the more boost you make, the less your tiny atp iwg has to bleed off boost... so higher boost would be better for the IWG. but i agree, with atp turbos you need to go ewg, since they don't know how to design a turbine housing, and they constantly creep...
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 Old 03-13-2010, 10:00 AM   #35
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If you need a oil pump, the Cosworth duratec/mzr oil pump APPEARS to be the same pump, except a high flow version, for about half the price. Modern Automotive Performance, which is a vendor here, can order Cosworth stuff and sell it for less than the MSRP on the Cosworth web page.

Y2k has a set of new ARP head and main studs for sale on mazda6club for $145
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 Old 03-13-2010, 10:06 AM   #36
 
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Originally Posted by i <3 bitches View Post
um... the more boost you make, the less your tiny atp iwg has to bleed off boost... so higher boost would be better for the IWG. but i agree, with atp turbos you need to go ewg, since they don't know how to design a turbine housing, and they constantly creep...
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 Old 03-13-2010, 10:23 AM   #37
 
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Originally Posted by holeinmypocket View Post
Like what speedsixx said EWG is the way to go with the ATP turbos. They suck cuz they are stock flanged but that is the way I want to go. I just want something that is going to bolt straight up to my CS DP and PG Mani, with no hassle or custom route. Flame me if you want but I already am spending a shit on this build. Ne ways back on topic.
You do realize you are gimping your self with that CS DP and not using an IWG dont you? The corksport is designed for the stock flange and with the divorced wastegate design its intended to be used with a internal wastegate. So you have 3 options

1. Trade the CS DP for another true 3" stock fitment downpipe like Cobb or CPE (or any other 3" dp). have you PG manifiold modified for EWG, have your IWG welded shut (this will probably kill its resale value btw)

2. Or you get a T3 flanged external wastegate exhaust manifold,turbo without IWG, and downpipe.

3. Keep your CS DP and PG Mani and have your stock mazda flanged ATP turbo's IWG ported so it doesnt boost creep. Some have had more luck with this than others. I know it solved my boost creep problems on a GT2871r before i moved to a completely different setup. There is a huge obstruction in the hole that leads up to the puck for the IWG that if you remove will help alot. Also can enlarge the hole for the IWG, and port the area around the entrance that leads to hole to promote the exhaust gases to go down the hole. Also you want to bevel the wall that is around the outside of the puck so that when it opens the exhaust gases dont run into a straight wall.

Basically what im saying is if your going to go to EWG do it right (option 2) Your going to have to modify your PG manifold to add an exwg flange onto it anyways, and your downpipe isnt suited for EWG.. Id say either go with option 2 and do EWG the right way with parts designed for T3 from the ground up and sell your old stuff, or if your commited to keeping your PG mani + CS DP, have your ATP turbo's IWG ported.

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx View Post
think about it....

the more boost u make the less efficient ur tiny lil ATP fail IWG will bleed exhaust gasses off..

and if ur argument is ur not making big power or dont want to..then umm why even go with a BT..

go with a tiny lil gt28 or a SST
This is wrong, the more boost you run the less your wastegate has to work because its not trying to hold it back from creating more boost as much. The lower amount of boost you want to run the more efficient your wastegate has to be at venting exhaust gases away from the turbo's exhaust turbine to keep the boost at your desired level.

Last edited by JumpingJackson; 03-13-2010 at 10:36 AM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 03-13-2010, 10:27 AM   #38
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lol
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 Old 03-13-2010, 10:57 AM   #39
 
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Originally Posted by JumpingJackson View Post
This is wrong, the more boost you run the less your wastegate has to work because its not trying to hold it back from creating more boost as much. The lower amount of boost you want to run the more efficient your wastegate has to be at venting exhaust gases away from the turbo's exhaust turbine to keep the boost at your desired level.
I is feel stupid right about nizow...ty for being the second to call me out...

see what I get for typing dumb shit =)...

that part of my statement is false obviously but the second is not..go EWG for 3071 or higher....more efficient.
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 Old 03-13-2010, 09:44 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
If you need a oil pump, the Cosworth duratec/mzr oil pump APPEARS to be the same pump, except a high flow version, for about half the price. Modern Automotive Performance, which is a vendor here, can order Cosworth stuff and sell it for less than the MSRP on the Cosworth web page.

Y2k has a set of new ARP head and main studs for sale on mazda6club for $145
I will look into it next week when i get paid next.
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