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MazdaSpeed 3 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline Discussion of engine, tranny and drivelines.


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 Old 02-09-2011, 11:26 AM   #1
 
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Default Replacing timing chain

Well, started replacing timing chain and tensioner. Did the ter down yesterday only toke about 4 hours. Just waiting on parts and timing tools to come in. Will post pics before reassembly.
heres the pics of it going back together.
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Last edited by cbspeed3; 02-25-2011 at 09:22 PM. Reason: update pics
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 Old 02-09-2011, 02:27 PM   #2
 
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How many miles do you have on the clock?
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 Old 02-09-2011, 02:34 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by cbspeed3 View Post
Well, started replacing timing chain and tensioner. Did the ter down yesterday only toke about 4 hours. Just waiting on parts and timing tools to come in. Will post pics before reassembly.

If you are just changing the chain and tensioner the only tool that is needed is the blind plug bolt and you can use any 10X1.25 all thread bolt to to accomplish this. Once it is butted up against the cranks flat spot then you are set
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 Old 02-10-2011, 06:15 AM   #4
 
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68,000 miles on the clock. Vvt and tensioner are bad. Dealer relaxed vvt under warranty but wouldn't do chain and tensioner. Wanted 1500 bucks. So I'm replacing chain, tensioner, both guides. Car was stuttering losing power and had audible knock at high loads, could hear chain rattling around at idle and light throttle. Chain had almost an inch or more of slack even after motor was warmed up.

Parts and tools already on the way so I'll just wait

Last edited by cbspeed3; 02-10-2011 at 06:15 AM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 02-10-2011, 06:22 AM   #5
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Yeah, with 2006 builds of CX-7 and MS3, I have been following the failures on both(more on CX-7). I was quoted the $1500 rate as well, which is such shit. Most is just labor.

How much is all the parts setting you back?
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 Old 02-10-2011, 07:55 AM   #6
 
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Parts and tools about 450
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 Old 02-10-2011, 08:00 AM   #7
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Cool. Just keeping that in mind if I start having issues. At least you heard the noise! A lot of CX-7 people were simply having them snap while moving, resulting in bent valves and head damage.
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 Old 02-10-2011, 08:12 AM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by Raider View Post
A lot of CX-7 people were simply having them snap while moving, resulting in bent valves and head damage.
Ouch. Comments like that get me worried..

What "How To" if any did you use to do this? 4 hrs seems pretty good considering what is involved. Would love to hear some tips or issues you hit during install.
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 Old 02-10-2011, 08:16 AM   #9
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I would not worry too much. The amount of total failures is microscopic to the total production. People usually post up on a forum when shit breaks, especially on the CX-7 side.
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 Old 02-10-2011, 08:40 AM   #10
 
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Yea I hear you. Its like blown motors. If people just read the forums they would think everyone blows
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 Old 02-10-2011, 08:42 AM   #11
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You are just thinking of 8th Gen civic forum...They all blow.
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 Old 02-10-2011, 04:00 PM   #12
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Im at 22K miles and my speed 6 makes an audible knocking sound on boost and high rpm and occasionally will loose timing enough that the car looses all power and at that time I can hear the chain smacking the valve cover.

Dropping car off tomorrow to get tensioner and chain replaced under powertrain warranty.
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 Old 02-10-2011, 04:42 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by MazdaMadness View Post
Im at 22K miles and my speed 6 makes an audible knocking sound on boost and high rpm and occasionally will loose timing enough that the car looses all power and at that time I can hear the chain smacking the valve cover.

Dropping car off tomorrow to get tensioner and chain replaced under powertrain warranty.
To test if you are chain is loose just take the oil cap off WHILE COLD and stick your finger in there and try to move the chain up and down. It should be REALLY tight if you feel a lot of slack then your tensioner is bad!!! If you cant tell then just take your valve cover off and look at the inside of your cover and see if there is a groove left in it from the chain hitting it..

Heres my tensioner gone bad on my freshly built motor!!!!! after about 3 months of driving!!
VIDEO!!!!!!!!!

I also have an HOW TO on puling this out without pulling the engine and or the cams out..

*EDIT* HAD a how to before the site crashed..

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ut-head-63647/
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 Old 02-11-2011, 07:33 PM   #14
 
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thats just what mine looked like!!!!!!
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 Old 02-11-2011, 10:22 PM   #15
 
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Technically, you dont need to remove the cams to do a chain and tensioner or VVT actuator. I say this as someone with a lift handy, but you can do it in the garage as well. Easiest way to get to the front engine cover is by putting the front of the car on jack stands, then use the floor jack under the oil pan with some kind of padding. support the motor with the jack and remove the pass side engine mount. With his out of the way, you can now easily raise and lower the engine in the engine bay.

With the drive belt, idler pulley, water pump pulley out of the way and PS pump unbolted, rotate engine with a 21mm on crank bolt until you can install the Special Service Tool for the Cams (Cam Alignment Plate). Failure to do so can easily result in poor timing and possible engine damage. This is an Interference motor. At this point, you should be able to install the Crank Timing Peg tool on the side of the block (Remove small 10mm plug).
(Removal of the crank bolt may be difficult, best to break it loose with out tools in place, via Impact gun, or torque multiplier) After loosening the bolt, snug it back up just enough to move the crank to touch the Crank Timing Peg. Once timing is achieved, remove the crank bolt and Drive/Hall Effect pulley on Crank. Next, mark exactly where your Crank sensor is located and remove from front cover. Now you can remove all the 8mm and 3 13mm bolts to remove the front cover.

Now with the timing chain exposed, unbolt both 10mm bolts holding tensioner in and discard old tensioner (If replacing). Replace chain and slides, then install tensioner (If not using a new tensioner, use a small paper clip to lock tensioner in retracted position until installed and ready to use). Clean and reseal front cover.

Install your crank sensor fallowed by the crank pulley. Snug the crank bolt up as before to make sure crank is in contact with Peg (Always use a NEW crank bolt every time, it cannot be reused). Install a 10mm bolt in through crank pulley to keep it straight. Now tighten the Crank Bolt. Remove Timing Tools and rotate engine at crank twice (4 Stroke Cycles) to insure proper installation. Install everything else in reverse order.

If replacing VVT Actuator, replace with timing chain removed. Use NEW Dimond Washer when installing new actuator.

Ive replaced countless VVT Actuators and timing chains on the DISI motors. Sometimes have nightmares....
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 Old 02-11-2011, 10:43 PM   #16
 
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thats what i did,car on jack stands in my garage,you also have to remove waterpump pulley to get at two of the 8 mm bolts for the chain cover.
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 Old 02-11-2011, 10:46 PM   #17
 
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Good catch, Fixed.
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 Old 02-11-2011, 10:58 PM   #18
 
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and the power steering and radiator tanks need to be un bolted and pulled ot of the way
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 Old 02-11-2011, 11:04 PM   #19
 
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thanks,yes it is a bitch but not too bad.the fuel pump and wire harness toke a while. tried not to break the little shitty plastic clips,and chewed up on of the fuel pump bolts getting it off,the little 6mm star bolt.
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 Old 02-11-2011, 11:21 PM   #20
 
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E8 Inverted Torx.
Sons of bitches had to reinvent the wheel with that one.

For the record, wasn't exactly starting my instructions from the very beginning.
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 Old 02-12-2011, 05:19 AM   #21
 
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Lol!!! Inverted pain in my ass. Made me curse and throw my wrench. Dam bolt was tighter than the crank pulley bolt!!!
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 Old 02-12-2011, 04:28 PM   #22
 
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I know it, best I can say is, unless you want to replace those bolts, BUY a set of Inverted torx, or find a single one. Harbor Freight or cheapy will suffice for this kind of thing. Don't have to be snap on if your not using it a lot.
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 Old 02-13-2011, 08:27 AM   #23
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I just had mine done at 53K miles; either it or the VVT Actuator was making a ticking noise at idle - I just had them do everything (chain, tensioner & vvt actuator) since the labor difference was not very much and parts were fairly cheap.

I paid ~$1100 to have it all done at a private shop.
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 Old 02-13-2011, 08:56 AM   #24
 
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I think I'm gonna hack it myself when the time comes. There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable guys on here with a lot of good step by step info. I'm a machinist by trade, so I have some mechanical know how. At least I'd like to hope so. I even have an engine hoist at my shop...
Let's hope it's never an issue though.
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 Old 02-13-2011, 07:45 PM   #25
 
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it's not that bad of a job,i thought it would be worse.all i used was the shop manual that i got from here and just started going at it.got my timing tools from SU friday and my parts are in at dealer ,going to get them monday.i will take some pics of it apart and will i reassemble,might help some other people from spending 1500 bucks.
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 Old 02-14-2011, 10:06 AM   #26
 
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First guys what inverted bolt did you guys take out? i didn't have to touch one when i did mine? I also didn't take my fuel pump housing off to use the cam alignment tool..

I will repost my procedure when i get the time step by step..
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 Old 02-14-2011, 05:03 PM   #27
 
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How the fuck do you use the cam alignment tool without taking the fuel pump off?
Interested to see, as is news to me.

Did you make your own?
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 Old 02-14-2011, 05:13 PM   #28
 
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Originally Posted by FamiliaGT View Post
How the fuck do you use the cam alignment tool without taking the fuel pump off?
Interested to see, as is news to me.

Did you make your own?
Wrote that wrong i ment that i didnt need the cam tool to time MY car. Will i recommend this to everyone NO. Can you do it without it YES!! Doing my car took me about 2.5 hours on the ground...
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 Old 02-14-2011, 05:20 PM   #29
 
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heres a vid for those that have been told that your chain is supposed to have a little bit of slack or its normal to be slacked while cold...


Brand new freshly built motor with NO slack in the chain!!! sorry for the sideways video. I had forgotten that i was doing a write on this so when i had it all bolted up and ready to go i just did it while it was on the hoist. I was illustrating how you are supposed to rotate the motor two full turn after doing the timing belt to make sure the the chain is tight and was as there is no interference with the pistons and valves..


Will finish the rest of this write up soon!!
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 Old 02-14-2011, 05:41 PM   #30
 
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i have started rebuilding this page if you guys want to have a visual on what you are supposed to be doing... STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION THOUGH!!!!


http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...47/#post730482
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 Old 02-14-2011, 07:41 PM   #31
 
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mines at mazda for the same thing, only 41k miles. Waiting to here if its covered!
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 Old 02-14-2011, 08:06 PM   #32
 
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Unless modded, your still under powertrain. Or if you are modded, hopefully the tech you got isnt a dick who wants to do you wrong.
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 Old 02-14-2011, 08:28 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by FamiliaGT View Post
Unless modded, your still under powertrain. Or if you are modded, hopefully the tech you got isnt a dick who wants to do you wrong.
I only have 26k and its been doing it since 19k.
the techs at my local dealer a punch of popus assholes. One told me...what u think is the probelm and I said the tensioner and he got in a big argument with me saying its the actuator and not the tensioner etc etc. Mean while the chain is loose with the car off.
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 Old 02-14-2011, 08:32 PM   #34
 
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well, by tsb its the chain and actuator replaced... the tensioner is usually fine... not saying hes wrong in your instance. just saying thats what normally happens
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 Old 02-15-2011, 12:03 AM   #35
 
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I heard somewhere that the vvt going bad constantly pulls on the chain and tensioner wearing them out faster. My tensioner is almost fully extended.
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 Old 02-15-2011, 04:19 AM   #36
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When I replace my clutch I am replacing the whole assembly because like stated above it just makes sense. When actuator goes then obviously more strain is put on tensioner etc.
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 Old 02-16-2011, 07:03 AM   #37
 
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Through the oil fill cap, I cannot push the chain down, but there is slack in an upward direction. Is this normal?
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 Old 02-16-2011, 08:39 AM   #38
 
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Originally Posted by Tokay444 View Post
Through the oil fill cap, I cannot push the chain down, but there is slack in an upward direction. Is this normal?

NO.. well it depends on how much but if you look at my vid you will see i have NO slack. I believe you can have slight slack but it more close to tight then loose.. I will look up what the deflection is... i would look into replacing the tensioner soon just incase..
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 Old 02-16-2011, 08:44 AM   #39
 
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Dammit. There is almost NO downward deflection, but I can pull up I'd say about half an inch.
Edit. Just read that without any oil pressure, some slack is to be expected.

Last edited by Tokay444; 02-16-2011 at 09:08 AM.
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 Old 02-16-2011, 03:48 PM   #40
 
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Mazda dealer called today and said the noise i am hearing is not the chain hitting the valve cover because they did not see any signs of this in the cover, even though they admited some slack. They said the noise is a bad belt tensioner and it is not covered under the powertrain warranty....FML
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