Rev Matching

[danesti]

rev match ftw.
all theories aside its just plain fun.

[NRSpeed]

I just never shift. I put it in D and let it do all the work for me.

[xcoldricex]

i thought you were always supposed to rev match...

[Dash08]

Shit, I might as well be at Laguna seca or willow springs everytime I pull out of the fucking driveway. I haul ass everywhere I go. I rip corners at 60mph and heel-toe all day long. I get upset if the car hops during downshifts. The harder I push the car, the better it runs. This is a drivers car.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

... that was uncalled for...

[DaleNixon]

I rev match downshift and double clutch while doing it if there's room, but I'm such a noob at it that it takes me a few seconds to concentrate.

There's a nice tight cloverleaf exit I take on the way to work that I've gotten decent at rev-match downshifting 5-4-3 and letting the engine slow the car down with no brakes. I still buck the car forward sometimes when I downshift, but it still starts to slow down faster in the lower gear.

There's nothing like the satisfaction of a perfectly timed downshift with the perfect rev match. It sounds and feels great!

Edit: Is this harder to do when you get a lighter flywheel?

[zoom1&zoom2]

Originally Posted by bmwzoom I was just introduced to rev matching today... Im curious to hear thoughts on it. Good or bad for the car? Why?

its good for the clutch when done correctly, takes a bit of practice to get your technique down. I have been doing it the entire time I have owned the car. 48K miles, no issues. Also still on the stock front brakes!

[HLR Element]

Originally Posted by Blackspeed theres no need to rev match if the rpms are already low enough to downshift, so saying you arent driving it right is a huge blanket statement. Whay arent you double clutching if your worried about your car? this puts less stress on the transmission and synchros.

there's no need to rev match if the revs are low enough?... well i know why you don't, because you don't know what it means to rev match. When you rev match you are raising the rpms... not lowering them. Cause the lower gear needs to be at a higher rpm to match the speed of the higher one.

It makes for smoother downshifts, even if i'm engine braking i still do it... i hate making the car buckle and one person i drive gets car sick from simple, let off gas and upshift then add gas again, so i try to make it smooth for them too... then i go have fun when they're gone.

Anyway, it's fun... sounds cool... saves parts... prevents car sickness... and it's second nature now lol heel and toe is another thing though, i can't get that yet.

[Smoker6]

I fail miserably at heal toe on this car unless I'm braking all out.

[nue]

Good. Why NOT do it.

[JS + MS3]

How do I do it? I've never learned it.

[nue]

Originally Posted by JS + MS3 How do I do it? I've never learned it.

"Rev-match

Matching the engine/flywheel speed to the speed of the clutch, to reduce clutch slippage and have smoother shifts. Wait for the revs to drop when up shifting (or shift fast to get it done before they drop too far, I have this problem some times in my 6 speed). For downshifts blip the throttle to raise the rpms for the lower gear."

Standardshift | Standardshift / TermsAndDefinitions

tl;dr Give it some gas when you're downshifting. Use throttle and clutch modulation to ensure a smooth transition from gears without under/over revving, only practice can help you with that.

[speed_freak]

Originally Posted by andrew88 its all about the heel-toe

this! once you learn to heel-toe you do it everytime, from the track to the street. cant remember what its like not heel-toe breaking

[Arrowpoint]

YouTube - Autoblog discussion of performance shifting technique

YouTube - Autoblog discussion of performance shifting technique

[burntRice]

this should have been posted first lol its explains why and how...all the op asked for lol

[Dash08]

Double clutching seems so unnessecary. If you can rev match perfectly the first time, why waste the movement? The guy in the video even stated that the benefits of it are minimal if you know how to rev match properly.

[Blackspeed]

Originally Posted by Dash08 Double clutching seems so unnessecary. If you can rev match perfectly the first time, why waste the movement? The guy in the video even stated that the benefits of it are minimal if you know how to rev match properly.

I used to think this as well....but its wrong. When you double clutch you are actually matching the speed of the input shaft to that of the output shaft of the trans. Rev matching only matches the speed of the clutch to the flywheel.

Originally Posted by HLR Element there's no need to rev match if the revs are low enough?... well i know why you don't, because you don't know what it means to rev match. When you rev match you are raising the rpms... not lowering them. Cause the lower gear needs to be at a higher rpm to match the speed of the higher one.

you are either confused or you dont know what you are talking about. When you slow down enough in say 4th gear, the rpms drop low enough, that when you shift into third, the rpms will barely be higher (1-300 rpms). Blipping the throttle for 1-300 rpms is pointless. Unless youre a machine, then theres no way rev matching to a tolerance under 100 rpms every time.

[corbs]

i hear rev matching makes you so howrrrrny

[byau]

i think i need a bigger gas pedal to help with this. i'm slow when rev matching since i have to brake first and then bring my foot over to the gas separately. i can't heel toe i need to go watch more initial-d!

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Just do the side-step. I find it much easier on the streets. Half of your foot is on the brake pedal, the other half is on the gas. Like I said, I find heel-toeing impractical in daily driving because you never have to brake that hard in such a short distance.

If you do have to brake that hard, you're better off just worrying about stopping the car anyways.

[SPEEDRAC3R]

Always just do it out of habit. Seems natural once you learn it.

[corbs]

am i the only one who does this but when i down shift i do brake and gas at the same time i do the clutch. i supposed that'd be heel n toe?

also... another weird discovery i've made lately while in reverse i can have my foot off the clutch and gas and it'll drive in reverse on its own and not even begin to bog.

[Blackspeed]

Originally Posted by corbs am i the only one who does this but when i down shift i do brake and gas at the same time i do the clutch. i supposed that'd be heel n toe? also... another weird discovery i've made lately while in reverse i can have my foot off the clutch and gas and it'll drive in reverse on its own and not even begin to bog.

our pedals are so close that you can "heel-toe" by just using each side of your foot like you said.

Reverse is geared low, it will do that.

[danesti]

Originally Posted by corbs also... another weird discovery i've made lately while in reverse i can have my foot off the clutch and gas and it'll drive in reverse on its own and not even begin to bog.

i do this in 1st in stop and go traffic.

[corbs]

ya dustin i just use the side of my foot.

but thanks guys just wanted to make sure those slopes didnt fuck my shit

[fjames]

Yeah, I just figured that out the other day. If the engine's running and you put it in gear, then let out the clutch, the car actually moves. I been paying these broke down old bikers 20 bucks a day to push me around, now I gotta let them all go with this new discovery.

[HLR Element]

Originally Posted by Blackspeed you are either confused or you dont know what you are talking about. When you slow down enough in say 4th gear, the rpms drop low enough, that when you shift into third, the rpms will barely be higher (1-300 rpms). Blipping the throttle for 1-300 rpms is pointless. Unless youre a machine, then theres no way rev matching to a tolerance under 100 rpms every time.

was it hard to figure out that i meant downshifting when the revs were higher in the rpm range? And it's not smart to slow down so much in a higher gear since if someone does something stupid and comes barreling toward you you can't get out of the way quickly. Lowest i let is 3rd sometimes coming to a light if i know it's impossible for some idiot to hit me.

[Stealth01]

I rev-match on almost every downshift, and heel-toe when doing it aggressively. Most fun, and easier on the ole clutch.

[ooheadsoo]

Originally Posted by HLR Element was it hard to figure out that i meant downshifting when the revs were higher in the rpm range? And it's not smart to slow down so much in a higher gear since if someone does something stupid and comes barreling toward you you can't get out of the way quickly. Lowest i let is 3rd sometimes coming to a light if i know it's impossible for some idiot to hit me.

I cruise well under 3000 RPM until I anticipate making some aggressive maneuver. E.g., if you're at 2600 RPM, then slow down by hitting the brakes, within a split second, you'll be in an RPM range where the change in RPM from one gear to the next is tiny and very hard to blip. It's commendable to try, and I always try, but letting the clutch take up the difference shouldn't wear anything significanty. For DD, rev-matching CAN be avoided, but it's a much more engaging experience to do a little rev matching.

[fjames]

Matching revs is easier when the gas pedal is responsive - most cars build in some dead space off idle so tuning that out helps. Cable you can just adjust tighter, with our cars you need to get into ATR and pep up response with the APP table.

[clos561]

its good to rev mathc, downshifting and not doing it jsut jerks your tranny around and your car, doesnt even feel right if you dont.

[HLR Element]

Originally Posted by ooheadsoo I cruise well under 3000 RPM until I anticipate making some aggressive maneuver. E.g., if you're at 2600 RPM, then slow down by hitting the brakes, within a split second, you'll be in an RPM range where the change in RPM from one gear to the next is tiny and very hard to blip. It's commendable to try, and I always try, but letting the clutch take up the difference shouldn't wear anything significanty. For DD, rev-matching CAN be avoided, but it's a much more engaging experience to do a little rev matching.

yea, i try to keep my car around 2.5k, more favorably above but under 3k. I guess you could, but still is putting more wear on the clutch. I like to engine brake too so rev matching makes more sense then.

On m3f there was a thread like this... they thought engine braking wore down the clutch, wtf?

[Arrowpoint]

I grew up in North Carolina near the Appalachian mountains. The roads had alot of long steep grades. In those days most cars had drum brakes that would heat up the brake shoes untill they would glaze and become ineffective. Engine braking was very a standard procedure. As a matter of fact if you where following a car down a long hill and could smell brake shoes cooking it was a pretty safe bet the driver was a " flatlander". Engine braking has nothing to do with rev matching. Rev matching is used primarily to prepair the car to exit a turn in it's power band in a controlled way and not to slow the car down.

[HLR Element]

well, engine braking and rev matching are not directly connected, but i was saying i will downshift, rev match so the rpm stays high and use that to engine brake. Instead of what the other guy said braking with brakes and leaving it in high gear until going very slowly

[Dredful]

Originally Posted by Arrowpoint I grew up in North Carolina near the Appalachian mountains. The roads had alot of long steep grades. In those days most cars had drum brakes that would heat up the brake shoes untill they would glaze and become ineffective. Engine braking was very a standard procedure. As a matter of fact if you where following a car down a long hill and could smell brake shoes cooking it was a pretty safe bet the driver was a " flatlander". Engine braking has nothing to do with rev matching. Rev matching is used primarily to prepair the car to exit a turn in it's power band in a controlled way and not to slow the car down.

It's similar on a semi. Even with 10 air brakes, they'll overheat and fade in a hurry on steep descents. It only took one scary "this tin can isn't slowin' down!" experience to drive home the necessity for rev matching, down shifting, and engine braking for me. Of course my MS3 is much lighter and doesn't NEED engine braking, but the habit dies hard. At least I've stopped trying to float the clutch on the up shifts.

[Speedee3]

Um, you guys are cracking me up. Quit making driving a stick sound like you have to have NASCAR skills!! I swear people here do things becaue its "cool" vs useful. I dont need any fancy footwork to drive an all synchro manual tranny...its childs play...up and down, why make it sound hard?

No, you dont have to "rev match"....sounds cooler than it is...just treat your clutch with a little respect and you'll be fine!?

Funny, guys will hammer the thing going up thru the gears...and slipp it like mad in first...powershift, no lift shifts...then say "rev matching will help your clutch last longer"?? Ummmm oooooook!

Enjoy the car....we all beat it a bit harder than normal anyway, I rarely rev match...its drivers preference...and has nothing to do with "being a good driver". (I see so called "good drivers" with stupid ass guages all over and shift lights all the time...makes me laugh)

(Disregard the above if you are racing on a RACE TRACK!)

Ken

[darth vader]

"Nascar skills", bwahaha, like they need any, says I....

(btw, F1 is on this weekend...)

[NRSpeed]

Originally Posted by corbs am i the only one who does this but when i down shift i do brake and gas at the same time i do the clutch. i supposed that'd be heel n toe? also... another weird discovery i've made lately while in reverse i can have my foot off the clutch and gas and it'll drive in reverse on its own and not even begin to bog.

Originally Posted by danems6 i do this in 1st in stop and go traffic.

Ask FreeFlyFail about how the car wont bog in first, he found out about this as well.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...26/#post479160

[TegRacer324]

Originally Posted by Speedee3 Um, you guys are cracking me up. Quit making driving a stick sound like you have to have NASCAR skills!! I swear people here do things becaue its "cool" vs useful. I dont need any fancy footwork to drive an all synchro manual tranny...its childs play...up and down, why make it sound hard? No, you dont have to "rev match"....sounds cooler than it is...just treat your clutch with a little respect and you'll be fine!? Funny, guys will hammer the thing going up thru the gears...and slipp it like mad in first...powershift, no lift shifts...then say "rev matching will help your clutch last longer"?? Ummmm oooooook! Enjoy the car....we all beat it a bit harder than normal anyway, I rarely rev match...its drivers preference...and has nothing to do with "being a good driver". (I see so called "good drivers" with stupid ass guages all over and shift lights all the time...makes me laugh) (Disregard the above if you are racing on a RACE TRACK!) Ken

I agree with this on double clutching, but rev matching makes down shifting significantly smoother. I see no reason why one who cares about driving, which considering this forum and the reason we're here most of us probably do, wouldn't want to learn/use it

[JBR]

Please rev match people and only down shift to accelerate. Don't engine brake...go to neutral and use the brakes.