SEX!! with a Carbon fiber Intake Manifold

[phantom3]

No this thread is not about sex... unless you would like to have sex with an aftermarket CARBON FIBER INTAKE MANIFOLD!!!

No I'm not kidding.
I have been working on a prototype for a while now and just got the drive to finish it.

I have settled on a MZR-R style manifold.



velocity stacks will be 6061 T-6 Alum. as well as the other metal components.

Here are some projected flow paths.




UPDATE

Sorry guys I've been bust lately.

I got am assembly together of what the plumbing might look like.
The plumbing has directed a lot of air flow to the left of the intake starving the other cylinders (Back to the drawing board) I'm going to make up a set of air straighteners in the mani to try and fix thing. If that doesn't work then I'll remake the model.



This flow test was done @40PSI(120*F) with 06speed6's flow numbers from his big valve head. Still not real world but pretty damn close. You can see at 40PSI the 3.25" plumbing is becoming the restriction.

EDIT: After thinking about the air flow being directed to the left, I wonder in the stock mani is experiencing the same out come?? Possibly another factor in the blown engine saga???

Suggestions are welcome once your done touching your self.

UPDATE:

I'm broke.. lol. what else is new? I'm currently looking for a second job, but the repo man commeth and taketh away... my wife's car that is (2004 mazda 3 sedan, orange).

Needless to say the manifold has been put on the back burner.
I've finalized the design and I'm very happy with it.

I have a shop in town that is going to print the plenum in 3D for me so I can make a mold to wrap the CF around.
I've also scored some machine time at a friends shop. So once we get back on our feet and have some disposable income I can get this thing done.
I'm going to machine a mandrel up to press the runners on. The pipe will be heated up and pressed onto the mandrel shaping it perfectly to the port.
Once the runners are welded to the flanges the rest just bolts together. I should be able to make different runner lengths quite easily.

So that's where I'm at. It will get done, just not before Christmas.

[conso]

interesting

[JumpingJackson]

oooh fap fap fap fap fap

[RayRayBauder]

so are you mass producing these?

if you are what is the price looking like?

any expected date of when they'll be done?

looks really interesting.

[Andrew85]

Take "Mazda" off and put "Nator" plz.

Looks good man, lemme know when u need a hand.

[madvillain]

dude this looks awesome, nice work!

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by RayRayBauder so are you mass producing these? if you are what is the price looking like? any expected date of when they'll be done? looks really interesting.

Don't know, don't know, 2 weeks...lol don't know

Originally Posted by Andrew85 Take "Mazda" off and put "Nator" plz. Looks good man, lemme know when u need a hand.

I need a designated beer holder... lol

Originally Posted by madvillain dude this looks awesome, nice work!

Thanks.

[cohjus55]

Your title is misleading, Not the first time I have been let down with promises of sex though..


P.S. Would flushmount runners within the plenum be better? like a flush velocity stack on each runner

Edit: Didn't read that they already were velocity stacks, but still sticking with the flush mount comment

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by cohjus55 Your title is misleading, Not the first time I have been let down with promises of sex though.. P.S. Would flushmount runners within the plenum be better? like a flush velocity stack on each runner Edit: Didn't read that they already were velocity stacks, but still sticking with the flush mount comment

I'll change it and see.

Here's a NATOR pic

[cohjus55]

Also, You think changing the angle/size of the end(Oppsite Inlet) would help? I'm just looking where some of the dead air areas are. But, sometimes those dead areas effectively help air move away from a restriction. Agh, This is why I didn't choose the engineering path, this kind of stuff would keep me up at night.

[RayRayBauder]

Originally Posted by phantom3 Don't know, don't know, 2 weeks...lol don't know

i like your honesty. better than some of the vendors we have/have had. lol.

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by cohjus55 Also, You think changing the angle/size of the end(Oppsite Inlet) would help? I'm just looking where some of the dead air areas are. But, sometimes those dead areas effectively help air move away from a restriction. Agh, This is why I didn't choose the engineering path, this kind of stuff would keep me up at night.

The simulation is just a projected path simulation, So I won't know more until I get a working prototype.
However, this is the 7th position that I have put it inlet at and this one give the best projected flow between the runners.

EDIT: I guess I could put it in the same position as the MZR-R intake.. but it didn't make sense to put unneeded bends in the piping.

[Hectik1]

Wow nice work! You need to be making parts instead of some vendors!

[phantom3]

Ok here are the new projected flow paths.

original


raised lip


Flush lip


The velocity on the flush lip slows down in runners #1 and #3 giving dead spots. Also the flush design starves runners #2 and #3.

I may have not understood what you were saying. Is this what you meant by "flush", or did you mean just a square edge?


Better yet

[spnkr21]

This thing looks sick.

[MATT DAMOND]

I love solid works. I just started toying with it, I'm going into mechanical drafting.

That mani does look like sex, I'd bang it.

[phantom3]

Just for shits I designed an inlet location similar to the inlet on the MZR-R... No wonder they put it there... The flow is so even its insane! has this dual vortex going on in the plenum during the simulation.
I don't care if it adds a couple extra bends, I'm going that route!

[Fobio]

that's good shit right there...

[phantom3]

Mmmmm... Flow



I'm gonna go reward myself with some banana bread

[SRTCE142]

Try mzr-r location with a smaller diffuser angle.

looking really good though

[SPD6Tuner]

Nice job dude. This thing looks awsome. You got some skills being able to make something like that.

[BoostIsBetter]

just get a few prototypes made. don't let PG's people do it, their welding and skills blow.

[GQ_WhiteMS3]

uhm ... wow... what would that flow translate to in cfm numbers?

[superskaterxes]

wow id be all about this!!!!

whenever ive seen velocity stacks inside IM's ive seen them in this style.



not to say yours arent right but have u tried this? im talking about the lip of the stack and the difference where yours are rounded

[fnvoirin]

That looks amazing!

[miguelbates]

this looks fucking crazy bad-ass! nice renderings

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by SRTCE142 Try mzr-r location with a smaller diffuser angle. looking really good though

noted and thanks!

Originally Posted by SPD6Tuner Nice job dude. This thing looks awsome. You got some skills being able to make something like that.

Thanks!... we'll see how my skills with carbon fiber are...lol

Originally Posted by BoostIsBetter just get a few prototypes made. don't let PG's people do it, their welding and skills blow.

I have a professional welder here in Edmonton that is a good firend of mine. His welds are perfect. I can get it welded for free but if I produce them, he will charge.

Originally Posted by GQ_WhiteMS3 uhm ... wow... what would that flow translate to in cfm numbers?

The only way to tell actual CFM is a protoytpe on a flow bench. This simulation just pressurizes the inlet. I doesn't account other variables and an actual engine connected to the manifold. But it give a good idea.

That being said this test was done at 30PSI in the manifold. you can see the restriction in colour change as the velocity of the air goes up.

Originally Posted by superskaterxes wow id be all about this!!!! whenever ive seen velocity stacks inside IM's ive seen them in this style. not to say yours arent right but have u tried this? im talking about the lip of the stack and the difference where yours are rounded

THanks! I have not tried that design, but now I have something to do today!

Originally Posted by fnvoirin That looks amazing!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by miguelbates this looks fucking crazy bad-ass! nice renderings

Thanks! hopefully soon it will be more than just a rendering.

[cohjus55]

The second one you put up was what I was talking about

[dkspeed]

That looks great..

[GQ_WhiteMS3]

Woot for being in Canada too ... no BS shipping over the border to me when it's done and ready!

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by cohjus55 The second one you put up was what I was talking about

Thanks for the suggestion. The flow greatly improved.

Originally Posted by dkspeed That looks great..

Thanks!

[06Speed6]

Holy balls man this thing looks great. I REALLY like that mzr-r design, I suggested it nearly a year ago when I wanted to run a L/W top mount IC so I could have a straight shot right out of the IC to the TB. I would have only needed to flip it upside down.

I liked the original raised velocity stack design, instead of the flush inlet design.

I did some research on velocity stacks and came up with these:

They are made by www.velocity-of-sound.com They feature a tapered pipe that might promote better airflow.

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by GQ_WhiteMS3 Woot for being in Canada too ... no BS shipping over the border to me when it's done and ready!

No BS conversions as well!

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Holy balls man this thing looks great. I REALLY like that mzr-r design, I suggested it nearly a year ago when I wanted to run a L/W top mount IC so I could have a straight shot right out of the IC to the TB. I would have only needed to flip it upside down. I liked the original raised velocity stack design, instead of the flush inlet design. I did some research on velocity stacks and came up with these: They are made by www.velocity-of-sound.com They feature a tapered pipe that might promote better airflow.

I tried an earlier design similar to those but the flow wasn't as smooth. I'll play around some more and see what I can come up with.
The current velocity stacks as tapered, I just hadn't posted a side view.


The top of the velocity stack starts out round and is lofted to the profile of the flange. If it was round all the way it wouldn't be a smooth transition into the flange/head.

[TheDoc]

Have you changed the plenum volume at all?

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by TheDoc Have you changed the plenum volume at all?

Yes I have been playing around with it.

[06Speed6]

I thought ide also throw this out there, we have 8 ports not 4 and unfortunately you cant really connect them without major major reworking of the head.

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 I thought ide also throw this out there, we have 8 ports not 4 and unfortunately you cant really connect them without major major reworking of the head.

I intend to blend the ports in the head. Although for thoes not wanting to go that far I'm going to rework the flange to divide the runners.

EDIT: The way I see it, if your going this far, chances are your going to get some port work done. Blending the runners isn't much more.

[SPD6Tuner]

Originally Posted by phantom3 I intend to blend the ports in the head. Although for thoes not wanting to go that far I'm going to rework the flange to divide the runners. EDIT: The way I see it, if your going this far, chances are your going to get some port work done. Blending the runners isn't much more.

I agree. If you are going this far then you have the ambition and the money to go this far. Then again the secondary injection system that is being created right now may not work with this, or at least the PTP system. Either way I think it is an awsome render and should definately be prototyped.

[phantom3]

I looked more into this velocity stack (VS) issue and this is what I have found so far.

VS's are used on N/A motors in order to produce more torque. VS's essentially do the same thing on a turbo motor untill boost kicks in. This is when the air flow dynamics change. The engine is no longer sucking the air in, its more being forced in by the turbo (Duh).

In an N/A application the air speeds up as it travels down the VS due to vacuum. The point where it speeds up is the taper to the VS. Any obstructions (minor) pre VS don't have much effect.


In a turbo application we are dealing with compressed air (more molecules). As the air is crammed in and small disruptions have a more profound effect on flow paths and velocity. The turbo is creating the pressure but the design of the manifold (IC, piping, TB, ect) is providing the CFM to the engine through smooth and even flow.

When I ran the simulation the VS raised up 2.250" from the bottom, them flow was really good under no pressure. Once I added 30psi of boost, a lot of interference occurred around the bottoms the the VS....

Now I lost my train of thought.... fuck.

Originally Posted by SPD6Tuner I agree. If you are going this far then you have the ambition and the money to go this far. Then again the secondary injection system that is being created right now may not work with this, or at least the PTP system. Either way I think it is an awsome render and should definately be prototyped.

Actually, the flange that I'm using will be interchangeable with the Vivid motorsports one. I'll just send it out sans flange and you get the Vivid one Tig'd on... PI done.

[devils10]

do u plan of making alot fo these or just one€?