Synthetic oil really needed?

[gsrtype1]

Synthetic oil is oil that is artifiaccially made to have all stable molecules, the benifift is that unstable molecules try to stableized themselves by grabbing dirt and making your oil ditry thus whith synthetic you can go longer between oil changes. But if you change your oil every 3-5000 miles or so what diff does it make? Especcially with our fuel dillution problem we need to change out oil often anyway.. I went to change my oil today (i used penzoil full synthetic last time) was gonn do Mobil one full synthetic $27.00(5quart jug) then i got to thinking what I just said and saw Mobil one 5w-30(5quart jug) $11.00! Thats what Mazda recomends anyway Mobil one reg 5-w30. So I got that with an extra quart to make 6quarts $2.50 changed the oil car is running great!!! That said I do endorse getting super lubracants that help prevent startup wear.

[gsrtype1]

Anybody think different?

[lidokrantz]

if you change it often enough Mobil1 is fine....i have been using it from 600 miles in my Speed and no issues and no smoking turbo, so something is working. Where did you get it for $11. for 5 qts?

[skeeter149]

wal mart is my guess.

[bioevolve]

Walmart has the best price for Mobil1 Syn Motor Oil and Windshield Washer Fluid for Meth kits lol!

[Lex]

So let me get this straight, Mobil 1 is not a full synthetic oil? They advertise it as full synthetic. Is their Extended Performance the true synthetic?

I did read that Mobil changed their Mobil 1 formulation. Since I have been using Redline.

[Super Unique]

Shell rotella T 5w-40 is available @ walmart for a very reasonable price. This is still a true synthetic that works great. Walmart's inhouse brand "supertech" also makes a surprisingly good synthetic oil. Used oil analysis of both of these choices has confirmed they are excellent oils @ bargain prices compared to the big name brands.

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by Lex So let me get this straight, Mobil 1 is not a full synthetic oil? They advertise it as full synthetic. Is their Extended Performance the true synthetic? I did read that Mobil changed their Mobil 1 formulation. Since I have been using Redline.

Yeah they have synthetic and regualr. At walmart synthetic $27 regular $11.00.

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by Super Unique Shell rotella T 5w-40 is available @ walmart for a very reasonable price. This is still a true synthetic that works great. Walmart's inhouse brand "supertech" also makes a surprisingly good synthetic oil. Used oil analysis of both of these choices has confirmed they are excellent oils @ bargain prices compared to the big name brands.

Yeah I saw that Rotella a Shell brand, it sais high perferomace oil and I saw people buying it..

[gtlaw]

regular mobil1 is the only oil I ran in my speed. I see no need to run synthetic with how often I'm changing my oil. I did it at 400, 2000, I plan on doing it at 4,000, then every 2,500 after that

[gtlaw]

Originally Posted by Super Unique Shell rotella T 5w-40 is available @ walmart for a very reasonable price. This is still a true synthetic that works great. Walmart's inhouse brand "supertech" also makes a surprisingly good synthetic oil. Used oil analysis of both of these choices has confirmed they are excellent oils @ bargain prices compared to the big name brands.

they raised the price on the synthetic rotella, I just bought a jug for my sentra I think is was $22 I remember it being around $16

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by gtlaw regular mobil1 is the only oil I ran in my speed. I see no need to run synthetic with how often I'm changing my oil. I did it at 400, 2000, I plan on doing it at 4,000, then every 2,500 after that

Yeah thats what i'm thinkin if you change evey 3-5k why use synthetic..

[Lex]

Hmmm, the only Mobil 1 we have here in Canada is their synthetic. I stand by synthetic lubricants - I have seen them work very well under a lot of stress in my other cars.

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by Lex Hmmm, the only Mobil 1 we have here in Canada is their synthetic. I stand by synthetic lubricants - I have seen them work very well under a lot of stress in my other cars.

yeah but that doesn't mean the reg oil won't, cuasae the only diff between synthetic is the fact that its molcules are all stable where in reg oil you have a "natural" mix of stable and non stable molecules. Stable molecules wont hold dirt thus it lasts longer... Also synthetic may be .002-3% purer oil wich is nominal. Thus if you change your oil every 3-5k reg mobil 1 seems logical. We prob shouldn't wait to change our oil anyway cuase fuel dillution.

[Lex]

The synthetic oil has better lubricity at all temperatures, resists thermal breakdown and loss of viscosity, contains more/better detergents, does not deposit on engine components and it has better shear characteristics. Overall it is better at protecting and preventing wear - especially in a vehicle that sees high engine temperatures.

[gtlaw]

I forgot to mention the regular mobil is labeled clean 5,000, and mazda doesn't recommend using synthetic so thats one more reason I'm not

[Darksun280]

I've stuck with regular oil on my car and just just make it a point to change it every 3k exactly. My meth cleans out the motor anyway and keeps temps down. so I don't believe I have to worry to much.

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by Lex The synthetic oil has better lubricity at all temperatures, resists thermal breakdown and loss of viscosity, contains more/better detergents, does not deposit on engine components and it has better shear characteristics. Overall it is better at protecting and preventing wear - especially in a vehicle that sees high engine temperatures.

this is what i was wondering, How do you know this? What eveidence do you have. I heard that is bs, that all it does is last longer becuase it has stable molecules and it may be a little more purified but a negligble difference.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by gsrtype1 this is what i was wondering, How do you know this? What eveidence do you have. I heard that is bs, that all it does is last longer becuase it has stable molecules and it may be a little more purified but a negligble difference.

Here's a well researched post:

International Mazda Forums

I would do some research before making your mind up.

[gsrtype1]

The link doesn't work

[Lex]

I am not going to post the entire piece of information here - you may have to sign up to the forum to see it. It is well worth it however and will answer many of your questions regarding synthetics from a perspective of someone who is not selling a particular oil.

[gsrtype1]

I think there are oil addidtves to oil witch can help reduce startup wear and reduce friction for sure, but i think generally oil is oil. Syntheitc just lasts longer cuase its made with stable molecules and may be more resitant to chemical breackdown "long term",but if you change oil evy 3-5k anyway why?

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by Lex I am not going to post the entire piece of information here - you may have to sign up to the forum to see it. It is well worth it however and will answer many of your questions regarding synthetics from a perspective of someone who is not selling a particular oil.

Thanks for that link i will check it out, i'm just thinken the benifits of synthetic oil say might be resistance to chemical breakdown from fuel dillution, getting dirty etc are issues that happen after 3000 miles, so if you change often... why? I will check that out though.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by gsrtype1 Thanks for that link i will check it out, i'm just thinken the benifits of synthetic oil say might be resistance to chemical breakdown from fuel dillution, getting dirty etc are issues that happen after 3000 miles, so if you change often... why? I will check that out though.

I feel the better lubrication (less wear) and less thermal breakdown(especially for a turbo car) are the biggest advantages personally. But it is a personal choice of course and it comes with an extra cost. These benefits might not be visible until some serious miles are put on the car or it's being abused heavily.

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by Lex I feel the better lubrication (less wear) and less thermal breakdown(especially for a turbo car) are the biggest advantages personally. But it is a personal choice of course and it comes with an extra cost. These benefits might not be visible until some serious miles are put on the car or it's being abused heavily.

See but thats what i'm questioning, the better lubrication? how? better thermal breakdown? how? I think there are superlubricant additives that can stick to engine parts and help reg oil or synthetic. But syntheic oil is just oil made to be more stable so it doen't hold dirt. How doe this affect thermal breakdown and how does it lubricate better?

[Lex]

The chemical process and composition of synthetic vs non synthetic oils is different and therefore they have different properties:

From the link:

1. Volatility: The polarity of the ester molecules causes them to be attracted to one another and this intermolecular attraction requires more energy (heat) for the esters to transfer from a liquid to a gaseous state. Therefore, at a given molecular weight or viscosity, the esters will exhibit a lower vapor pressure which translates into a higher flashpoint and a lower rate of evaporation for the lubricant. 2. Lubricity: Polarity also causes the ester molecules to be attracted to positively charged metal surfaces. As a result,the molecules tend to line up on the metal surface creating a film that requires additional energy (load) to penetrate. The result is a stronger film which translates into higher lubricity and lower energy consumption in lubricant applications. The electrostatic forces that cause the molecules to stick to metal surfaces insure that a protective layer is there at all times, even during the crucial start-up period. This helps to protect cams, gears , piston rings and valve train components, where lubrication is "boundary" rather than "hydrodynamic" where a very thin non-pressure fed film has to hold the surfaces apart. Even crank bearings benefit at starts, stops or when extreme shock loads upset the "hydrodynamic" film.

[gsrtype1]

Also I have know eveidence nor have I heard that syntheitc oil is any better at resisting chemical change from fuel dilltuion that reg oil, i have olny seen synthetic oil tested.

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by Lex The chemical process and composition of synthetic vs non synthetic oils is different and therefore they have different properties: From the link:

eh.. put some slick fifty in every 3-4 oil changes and you get the same affect. Good article though if true then it would give better protection at start up wich is important! But use slick fifty or duralube every 3-4 oil changes would be much cheaper alternative for same result.

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by gtlaw I forgot to mention the regular mobil is labeled clean 5,000, and mazda doesn't recommend using synthetic so thats one more reason I'm not

Yeah thats what i got clean 5000 5-w30

[gsrtype1]

Good stuff Lex, My comment that If sythetic does provide a "film" to help protect, an oil addidtive like slick 50 every 3-4 oil changes woulsd the same and be just as good for cheaper. That stuff like duralube claims to protect so well with its coating on parts that if you run out of oil it won't hurt your engine.. i'm sure for a limited time though.

[Super Unique]

hmm, very interesting opinion there, calling synthetic oil snake-oil, then proposing 2 of the biggest snake-oil scams of all time in it's place? Nobody has ever been able to prove that slick50 or duralube do anything at all other than cost money to buy. Bottom line is any quality oil either regular or synthetic will protect your car very well for a shorter Oil change interval such as 3,000 to 4,000 miles. Going beyond 4,000 miles would require a synthetic to resist shearing down to a lower weight, and may not be advisable on the mzr disi engine due to fuel dilution. worries about oil coking in the turbo are largely a thing of the older turbo technologies before the current generation of water cooled units such as the one on our mazdas. Adequate lubrication is always a good thing, but truthfully our car is similar to other higher performance cars and taking care of the oil is just 1 part of the bigger picture. It is still largely a matter of personal preference, use what your comfortable with, following the recommended service intervals.

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by Super Unique hmm, very interesting opinion there, calling synthetic oil snake-oil, then proposing 2 of the biggest snake-oil scams of all time in it's place? Nobody has ever been able to prove that slick50 or duralube do anything at all other than cost money to buy. Bottom line is any quality oil either regular or synthetic will protect your car very well for a shorter Oil change interval such as 3,000 to 4,000 miles. Going beyond 4,000 miles would require a synthetic to resist shearing down to a lower weight, and may not be advisable on the mzr disi engine due to fuel dilution. worries about oil coking in the turbo are largely a thing of the older turbo technologies before the current generation of water cooled units such as the one on our mazdas. Adequate lubrication is always a good thing, but truthfully our car is similar to other higher performance cars and taking care of the oil is just 1 part of the bigger picture. It is still largely a matter of personal preference, use what your comfortable with, following the recommended service intervals.

but how do you know that no one has proven that slick 50 ,duralube or Lucas doesn't do anything like coat internals to protect at strart up and heat? Synthetic oil "cuase of it magnetic proeprties" or whatever may do the same but how can you say slick 50 or duralube or Lucas some reputable names dont provide the same proptection??

[gtlaw]

slick50 had that big class action lawsuit years ago they lost, and had to reimburse a lot of people.. there is some bad stuff about lucas on bobistheoilguy.com I wouldn't use either.

does anyone know why doesn't mazda recommend synthetic in this engine?

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by gtlaw slick50 had that big class action lawsuit years ago they lost, and had to reimburse a lot of people.. there is some bad stuff about lucas on bobistheoilguy.com I wouldn't use either. does anyone know why doesn't mazda recommend synthetic in this engine?

I heard alot of good things about lucas.. theres alot of bs out ther good and bad.. what about Drualube, they claim independent tests of there pruduct proved it wouldnt break down under extreme bearing presure and that the enigne would run witout oil for a temperary period of time?

[gsrtype1]

Maybe Mazda doesn't recomend Synthetic cuase the difference is neglible..

[running4life]

My service manager told me Mazda doesn't recommend synthetic oil because people were putting it in the RX8 and screwing up the rotary engine. Therefore they just don't recommend it for anything.

[gtlaw]

Originally Posted by running4life My service manager told me Mazda doesn't recommend synthetic oil because people were putting it in the RX8 and screwing up the rotary engine. Therefore they just don't recommend it for anything.

as for the rotary synthetic screws up the cats, becaus a lot of oil is lost out the exhaust, and the synthetic doesn't burn well.

I'm still hesitant to use synthetic because mazda might try voiding the warranty

[Super Unique]

It would be interesting to see mazda void a warranty on a piston engined car for using synthetic oil that meets or exceeds their recommendation for normal oil. And then have it challenged in court. It would likely turn out in favor of the owner of the car, and strike a blow in favor of the consumer for once. Only problem with that is Mazda would likely settle out of court quickly if they felt the case was turning against them.

[popecruz]

I don't use synthetic because I don't drive my car hard. Occasionally I'll do some 0-60 sprints, but synthetic is for the track imo. I don't think synthetic can ever hurt though, so if you want to spend the extra money for the protection go for it.

[mouse0330]

guys, mazda tech told me (from last year) that its good for the speed 3, not good for RX8...and he personally recommend me to use synthetic, also my brother who is a very good/knowledgeable mechanic told me to use it on turbo engine.

He told me to do it after first couple of oil change to let the engine part "wear in" or something like that.