Tranny Whine in 5th and 6th

[DuBz]

I've been going crazy trying to diagnose a whine coming from my transmission in 5th and 6th gear only and would like a few gear heads to chime in. The whine is neither speed nor RPM dependent, happens during accel always and decel randomly, and is at its loudest right after shifting into 6th while lightly accelerating. The pitch does get higher the more I hit the gas, but then is drowned out by engine/turbo noise.

This is the closest sound I can find to give everyone a better idea of what I'm hearing:

rear differential whine - YouTube

rear differential whine - YouTube

I've spoken to a few members already and they advised me to make sure the right amount of fluid is in the trans.

Hoping I just went full retard and didn't properly fill the trans when I switched to motorcraft, I checked today and the level was perfect. @silvapain; recommended that I throw in some of the forbidden friction modifier to quiet it down, so I drained some fluid, threw in 1/3-1/2 a bottle of the FM, and added some more motorcraft until it was topped off.

This did absolutely nothing except make shifting ever so slightly smoother than before, even though I never had any problems with shifting/grinding in the past.

If you're still with me, here are my questions:

1. Is there anything else I can try to get this noise out of my tranny? (i.e switch back to OEM fluid, turn the radio up, stab myself in the ear until the noise goes away, etc.)

2. If I continue to drive the car, will it do further damage even if I'm currently having no problems shifting? (pretty stupid question but I figured I'd ask)

3. I've been told that if it persists it's most likely a bearing and I'd need a rebuild. Do I really need to have my transmission rebuilt because of this stupid fucking noise?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - there's no way I can afford to rebuild my trans at the moment.
@phate; @Lex; @SPEED6 KILLAH; @rfinkle2; @Dano; @Tokay444; - any suggestions?

TL;DR - see # 3.

[Tokay444]

Any time my tranny starts whining I slap it and send it back to Taiwan in exchange for another one that knows it's place. @Fobio; is a gearhead. He'll have some answers for you.

[DuBz]

I should have known Tokay was trolling, no one ever publicly admits to having a tranny.




All joking aside, can anyone point me in the right direction?

[DuBz]

Bump, apparently I'm the only person to ever have this happen












or no one gives a shit.........hmmm I wonder which one it is

[Tokay444]

Still waiting on Fobio.

[DuBz]

Tokay you're such a jokester......I actually believed you and PM'd Fobio who told me he has no knowledge of transmissions.....or tranny's for that matter.

[Tokay444]

Hahaha. But he's a gearhead....

[DuBz]

Touché.

[AMOC]

Stock Trans mount?

If not, there's your reason.
Meshing gears produce that whine, some people hate it (I love it), but fluid will certainly have a limited effect on it.

The mount however will have the largest impact, if its an aftermarket mount, all of those noises will be coming through the body due to a stiffer mount. If you're on a stock mount, just check and make sure it isn't blown up.

[DuBz]

I'm on the stock TMM and PMM but I will definitely check that out ASAP, is it possible to only have it happen in 5th and 6th? I believe it's actually doing it in all gears but is only noticeable in the upper gears. In any case, is it something severe enough where I shouldn't drive it until I figure out what it is?


@AMOC; - Thanks man I really appreciate your input.

[AMOC]

I have a TRZ Trans mount, not to mention I don't own a speed, but I will say my 5th gear with low throttle DEFINITELY has a lot of whine in it compared to 1-3, 4 it's certainly there.

But yeah, definitely double check your mounts and what's attached if anything is over/under tightened or something.

If it didn't do it before (stock you certainly shouldn't hear it), something is obviously up.

That said yes it's 100% normal, absolutely nothing to worry about.

[SPEED6 KILLAH]

At what speed do you head it at and if the noise pitch changes when you turn the wheel to the left and right slighty ?

[DuBz]

Originally I only heard it in 5th and 6th, but as I'm driving it more I'm starting to hear it in 2nd as well, with a different pitch. In 5th or 6th it seems to begin right around 60 or 3000 RPM, but I can reproduce the noise at any speed, it just seems to always be the loudest at that point. The only variable that changes the pitch of the sound is how much I hit the throttle, turning the wheel in either direction at any speed doesn't have an effect on it.

Interestingly enough, I do believe I have a bad front wheel bearing(if that's what you were suggesting) because every now and then I hear the classic bad bearing wah wah wah randomly when I'm turning(not the LSD though), but it's completely different than the tranny sound.

I haven't had a chance to tear into it yet, so as of right now I'm praying that AMOC's right and when I check the trans mount it'll either be a few threads short of dropping the engine or completely missing, which would actually be a relief because if it's not I do believe my couch is fucked.

TL;DR - The whine is getting louder and It's now audible for a few seconds in 2nd as well as 5th and 6th -iN B4

[AMOC]

I think most people with our cars (at least the NA 3) replace the whole knuckle with as cheap as it is, and not having to find a press to push in a new bearing, it makes the job easier.

That said I don't blame you, even for the stock NA 3 getting down to that mount sucks especially if you're just taking a peak at it.

But.. If it is getting louder, I want to point more and more to toasted mounts.
It's very possible the rear is done as well as a lot of noise and even a touch of tranny noise comes through it as well.

[DuBz]

Looks like I have some inspecting to do, having a SURE RMM doesn't help me any with all the recent failures happening, even though it looks ok I could very well have an exploded RMM as well.

[AMOC]

Well I still say check the mounts..

Other than that I was helping a local speed yesterday dropped subframe and stuff to replace sway bushes and endlinks etc. beside the point....

We were talking and he said he was getting a whine from his trans as well and it turned out to actually be the transmission.
He had extended warranty and I think it
Goes up to like 75k? But the dealership replaced his trans with a brand new one, he was in a rental for nearly a week after the first attempt didn't solve the problem, but..
After the mounts it may be something to look in to because he thought it was his mounts as well but apparently not.

That said, it still could be many more things before the actual trans being bad.

[Tokay444]

You do not need to drop the sub frame for sway bar bushings or end links.

[omgvance]

@DuBz;

my transmission has made that noise since 60k (at 80k miles now). Mine happens in 2nd/3rd gear and was never super loud until I replaced all of my mounts then it became extremely loud. My fluid was changed right 60k. It hass been making this noise for a long time but doesn't affect anything, didn't see any shavings when the fluid was drained. I don't worry about it

*Edit - mine is more a high pitched whine, instead of a drone

[DuBz]

Originally Posted by omgvance *Edit - mine is more a high pitched whine, instead of a drone

Mine is high pitched as well, that was just the closest thing I could find.

I'm glad to hear you've been good for the past 20K with it, I can breathe a little easier now.

Did the whine appear immediately after you switched fluids?

[AMOC]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 You do not need to drop the sub frame for sway bar bushings or end links.

for the front it certainly makes it way easier to access the bushes. Endlinks no of course not, nor for the rear.

Besides that point... before anyone jumps on the stupid bandwagon of omfg you don't have a speed you n00b...

@Dubz, listen to my car; in higher gears at low throttle in this video you can absolutely hear the trans whine, if that's what you're hearing.. that's what it is.
(specifically listen after the 2:00 mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAcJa3xU3CE

[Tokay444]

I would never touch the sub frame for the bushings.
That's just silly.

[AMOC]

Meh, I've done it a few times before so it wasn't that big of a deal for me.

[Tokay444]

Anytime your move the sub frame you need an alignment.

[AMOC]

this is known

[DuBz]

@AMOC; that's the noise more or less, yours sounds a little more gear-like while mine alternates from somewhere in between that and a whistle.

Still haven't dug around yet, but I'm praying it's the mounts because it's noticeable in all gears now and it's getting louder every time I drive it.

I didn't get the extended warranty, and was under the impression that the drivetrain warranty was 5 yr./60K, even though I'm at 57K the born on date is November 07 which means dealership trans replacement is not an option.

[omgvance]

Originally Posted by DuBz Mine is high pitched as well, that was just the closest thing I could find. I'm glad to hear you've been good for the past 20K with it, I can breathe a little easier now. Did the whine appear immediately after you switched fluids?

Well, It was always there even before the fluid switch. I drove without music last night and it does it in 5th as well though not as high pitched as 2nd and 3rd. Like stated before it has always been there, but after I put all three mounts on it became a lot more noticeable. I wouldn't stress it man, like I said I've been going for 20k and zero issues. Just save up some backup money if you are worried about it, as you will have plenty of time. I think you can get a new transmission for like $900.

[AMOC]

Hum...
And you're positive it isn't axle or wheel/hub bearing correct?

Those would be a bit more of a whooshing sound at first too.

Here's a test I stupidly have forgotten to ask.
When you do hear it, if you let off the throttle completely, is the noise level still there? Or is it there but far far more quiet?

[DuBz]

If I completely let off the throttle the noise will stay at the exact same level for a second or two then completely disappear, whenever I hear it it's always at the same sound level.

By now I would've just let it be, but the fact that it's getting louder by the day leads me to believe that it's either getting worse or something's getting looser. (i.e mounts)

[fish20bcm]

I'm the Speed that AMOC was helping this weekend....

Mine (2008 - 93k miles) never made the noise until about November and I rode around with it for about 3 months up until February. It was really only apparent once I got up to about 45-50 mph and up. So that translated to about 5th and 6th gear like you're saying. It was completely related to speed, the faster I went, the louder it got. Was kinda a high pitched whine/humming noise. RPM didn't matter, I could pull the car out of gear and coast and the noise remained, consistently without fail, it only varied with speed. I figured axel, wheel bearing, etc. I took it to the local stealership and had them look at it since I am still under 7yr/100k CPO warranty. They said bad tranny after about 3 hrs of diagnosing and a few rides around the block to listen to it. They had the car for 4 days, put me in a rental and tried to rebuild it twice and couldn't get the noise to go away. Eventually they ended up calling in the regional Mazda uber tech from somewhere on the east coast to look at it and he said screw it give the guy a new one. So the stealership ordered me a brand new tranny. 3 days later it arrived from Cali and 2 days later I was back in my car w/o the noise. Had it back for about a month now and zero transmission noises to speak of. FYI - i have SU 62a rear mount and oem PMM and TMM.

[DuBz]

Glad to hear you were able to get a new transmission, I have a feeling I won't be that lucky.

I don't think we have the same problem as mine goes away instantly when I'm out of gear, so I'm hoping it's just the gears whining away.

The next question is, should I pick up the JBR trilogy so when I go in to check the trans mount I can say fuck it, throw in all new mounts, and have all sorts of crazy noises?

[AMOC]

Up to you; it is a little PITA to pull out the whole ecu and battery boxes and move everything around just to "look around"

Just be aware that ALL aftermarket mounts no matter how low durometer will still be harder than OEM.
That said, JBR's mounts seem to be a good choice with so many options.

If you want to stiffen it up, reduce wheelhop etc. I would say go for it.

Just keep in mind if a touch of tranny whine bugs you now, the vibes from all those mounts will certainly drown everything else out haha.
They're far from "comfort" if you know what I mean.

Personally?
I would say find a local with some of the mounts and try to ride with them for a few minutes to see how it feels, even if it isn't all or the specifics; just to be aware of what it will sound like and feel like.

Vibrations and noise in the cabin are greatly increased to say the least.
Low duro ones will be best bet for comfort though. I would say if you're going to do it, that'd be a good route.

[vutpn]

Originally Posted by DuBz I've been going crazy trying to diagnose a whine coming from my transmission in 5th and 6th gear only and would like a few gear heads to chime in. The whine is neither speed nor RPM dependent, happens during accel always and decel randomly, and is at its loudest right after shifting into 6th while lightly accelerating. The pitch does get higher the more I hit the gas, but then is drowned out by engine/turbo noise. This is the closest sound I can find to give everyone a better idea of what I'm hearing: rear differential whine - YouTube I've spoken to a few members already and they advised me to make sure the right amount of fluid is in the trans. Hoping I just went full retard and didn't properly fill the trans when I switched to motorcraft, I checked today and the level was perfect. @silvapain; recommended that I throw in some of the forbidden friction modifier to quiet it down, so I drained some fluid, threw in 1/3-1/2 a bottle of the FM, and added some more motorcraft until it was topped off. This did absolutely nothing except make shifting ever so slightly smoother than before, even though I never had any problems with shifting/grinding in the past. If you're still with me, here are my questions: 1. Is there anything else I can try to get this noise out of my tranny? (i.e switch back to OEM fluid, turn the radio up, stab myself in the ear until the noise goes away, etc.) 2. If I continue to drive the car, will it do further damage even if I'm currently having no problems shifting? (pretty stupid question but I figured I'd ask) 3. I've been told that if it persists it's most likely a bearing and I'd need a rebuild. Do I really need to have my transmission rebuilt because of this stupid fucking noise? Any advice would be greatly appreciated - there's no way I can afford to rebuild my trans at the moment. @phate; @Lex; @SPEED6 KILLAH; @rfinkle2; @Dano; @Tokay444; - any suggestions? TL;DR - see # 3.

Check your Passenger Enging Mount..If you see fluid leaks under the mount..YOur 3rd mount (passenger) is bad.. dealership charges $154 for PM.
The mount has fluid filled in it, if leaked will make those noise during 5-6th gear when under load..dissapear when you let go of gas pedal..Goodluck!

Its not your tranny issue if shifting still smooth..unless your tranny fluild is low..it will make noise. Also clacking noise is from loose timing chain..but your problem is same as mine is due to third engine mount fluild leaked out..

[DuBz]

Here's an update for anyone who's interested.

So I finally got around to checking my TMM, which BTW is much easier than I anticipated. With 60K on it, it looked just as good as the brand new OEM one I replaced it with.

Took the car for a ride, silky smooth shifts, but the whine is still there. Re-reading the last post, I decided to check out the PMM.....looked perfectly intact with no fluid visible anywhere.

I swear I will find the cause of this noise if it's last thing I do. When I come across some more funds I will most likely replace the PMM just for the fuck of it. My only hope now is the worst aftermarket product on the car......the SURE RMM. I have a slightly used CPE RMM on the way, I'm hoping that when it arrives I'll remove the SURE one and find that it failed, swap it and bask in the glory of sweet transmission silence.

Help me CPE-30, your my only hope.

[Mizzle]

So there's no evidence of a problem, but you're throwing parts at it?

Chill mang. It sounds like gear mesh to me, but the sound quality is terrible. Do you have an uncompressed version anywhere?

If anything, do the mounts no matter what, but I think you're overreacting.

[DuBz]

Originally Posted by Mizzle So there's no evidence of a problem, but you're throwing parts at it? Chill mang. It sounds like gear mesh to me, but the sound quality is terrible. Do you have an uncompressed version anywhere? If anything, do the mounts no matter what, but I think you're overreacting.

I'm straight up overreacting like a bitch on the rag, I'm well aware. The noise doesn't even bother me anymore, I just want the piece of mind that everything's mechanically sound as I'm breaking triple digits.

I should really just get a sound clip of the whine from inside the cabin, but I doubt I have a mic capable of picking it up. It really doesn't matter since the noise seems to be extremely common, but only with aftermarket mounts. When I first starting hearing it, my noobness overcame me and I thought that my trans bought the farm.

And as for throwing parts at it I probably couldn't deal with the aftermarket mounts and their vibes/noise, so why not get a set of fresh OEM mounts? (aside from the fact that the RMM will be stressing the other two)

[DuBz]

So I swapped the SURE out for the CP-E, no difference. Picked up a used stock PMM in good condition and threw it in just for shits n giggles, no difference.

I'm gonna grab some OEM trans fluid(if there is such a thing) and swap it with the motorcraft and see if anything changes.

If it's still there then fuck it I give up, I'll just turn up the radio or put something in my car that's less annoying

[86AmishMs3]

I replaced your 5th and 6th gear with straight cut gears....sorry bro forgot to tell you.

[dead-zone]

Originally Posted by DuBz I've been going crazy trying to diagnose a whine coming from my transmission in 5th and 6th gear only and would like a few gear heads to chime in. The whine is neither speed nor RPM dependent, happens during accel always and decel randomly, and is at its loudest right after shifting into 6th while lightly accelerating. The pitch does get higher the more I hit the gas, but then is drowned out by engine/turbo noise. I've spoken to a few members already and they advised me to make sure the right amount of fluid is in the trans. Hoping I just went full retard and didn't properly fill the trans when I switched to motorcraft, I checked today and the level was perfect. @silvapain; recommended that I throw in some of the forbidden friction modifier to quiet it down, so I drained some fluid, threw in 1/3-1/2 a bottle of the FM, and added some more motorcraft until it was topped off. This did absolutely nothing except make shifting ever so slightly smoother than before, even though I never had any problems with shifting/grinding in the past. If you're still with me, here are my questions: 1. Is there anything else I can try to get this noise out of my tranny? (i.e switch back to OEM fluid, turn the radio up, stab myself in the ear until the noise goes away, etc.) 2. If I continue to drive the car, will it do further damage even if I'm currently having no problems shifting? (pretty stupid question but I figured I'd ask) 3. I've been told that if it persists it's most likely a bearing and I'd need a rebuild. Do I really need to have my transmission rebuilt because of this stupid fucking noise? Any advice would be greatly appreciated - there's no way I can afford to rebuild my trans at the moment. @phate; @Lex; @SPEED6 KILLAH; @rfinkle2; @Dano; @Tokay444; - any suggestions? TL;DR - see # 3.

OK, I have EXACTLY the same problem as you do. 5th and 6th no other gears though. I started hearing it a couple of months ago after an trans oil change. Oil levels are exact and I used the Motorcraft oil.
I do not mean to disrespect some of the guys here but it is not the motor mounts because the if it was you will fill some, might not be a lot but at least tiny more vibration and it will be on all gears, no matter if the clutch is engaged or not. I had a broken mount so I speak from experience.
The noise seams to be like some kind of a bearing in the trans.

I am far from being super familiar with our trans but from my imagination...and reading here and there I think there is some kind of the bearing on the fork or syncro for 5th and 6th gears and that is the cause of the noise.

I really like to get rid of that noise though!

[DuBz]

I would be happy to agree with you and just leave it at that until my tranny blows, however it's now audible in 2nd gear as well. You may very well be right, but I think something else is going on in my case.

I feel like I only have one option/theory left and I may get flamed off the forums for even thinking it, but it's my last resort short of tearing into the trans.

Against my better judgment, I'm going to replace the motorcraft fluid with OEM fluid. Maybe it's possible that the magical unicorn jizz is a little too thin for my trans. It's on the thin side as it is, which explains why everyone's shifting becomes so smooth after switching.

I have "heard" on other forums that some people's synchros went bad shortly after switching to the ford fluid. I'm basing this on absolutely nothing but what I've read, so I could be 100% wrong, all I know is shortly after I switched my trans started whining.

If the OEM fluid quiets it down, I can live with double clutching into 2nd for the first quarter mile of my drive to avoid grinding.

I can already smell the vultures circling around this thread, waiting to go in dry and tell me that it can't possibly be the beloved motorcraft fluid since more than half the members on here are using it with no issues.



But maybe, just maybe, it's the cause of my car's tinnitus........here we go, flame suit on.

[rigor]

ring gear, loud on drive side ,quiet on coast side