Tranny Whine in 5th and 6th

[rigor]

a little snipit for fordza1 5th- 6th has a different pinion on the ring gear( so 2 pinions ) that is y you only hear it in 5-6 so your over drive pinion is failing or broke in poorly


After a quick review of the trans details, your guess is "almost" completely correct! The 5th and 6th gears in both the Speed3 & 6 trans have their own output shaft that drives the ring gear separately. This means that the trans has TWO output shafts that drive the ring gear, each shaft having a different pinion gear size and thusly a different final drive ratio as listed in the specs.....

Here is an image of the trans. Note the Primary Shaft is the input from the clutch disc. The Secondary (output) Shaft #1 has 1-4th gears and the smaller final drive pinion running the ring gear when in gears 1-4. The Secondary (output) Shaft #2 has 5-6th gears and the larger final pinion running the ring gear in gears 5-6. Pretty simple actually....

[rigor]

the worst part is the 3 need replaced to fix it right.

as they wear together, the 2 pinion gears and the ring gear, if you only replace one you think its loud now, it will be even louder

[DuBz]

@rigor;
Is it possible to replace all 3 by dropping the trans and changing them out, or is it the equivalent of a rebuild?

[rigor]

Originally Posted by DuBz @rigor; Is it possible to replace all 3 by dropping the trans and changing them out, or is it the equivalent of a rebuild?

im not versed on our trans, but it if it follows standard ring and pinion setup it's a nightmare especially with 2 pinions

[DuBz]

I haz done internals all by myself, how hard could rebuilding a transmission be?

[rigor]

if it was just syncros / gears, id say give it a try maybe, but the ring and pinions, are a different ball game, tuns of special tools required...

one error and it's a bucket of shit unfortunately...

[DuBz]

haha I don't think I'd ever attempt something as heavy as that, as you can see by my trans fluid theory, I'm clearly both mentally and mechanically retarded.

[dead-zone]

Originally Posted by DuBz I would be happy to agree with you and just leave it at that until my tranny blows, however it's now audible in 2nd gear as well. You may very well be right, but I think something else is going on in my case. I feel like I only have one option/theory left and I may get flamed off the forums for even thinking it, but it's my last resort short of tearing into the trans. Against my better judgment, I'm going to replace the motorcraft fluid with OEM fluid. Maybe it's possible that the magical unicorn jizz is a little too thin for my trans. It's on the thin side as it is, which explains why everyone's shifting becomes so smooth after switching. I have "heard" on other forums that some people's synchros went bad shortly after switching to the ford fluid. I'm basing this on absolutely nothing but what I've read, so I could be 100% wrong, all I know is shortly after I switched my trans started whining. If the OEM fluid quiets it down, I can live with double clutching into 2nd for the first quarter mile of my drive to avoid grinding.

Dubz I was thinking to switch a dif. oil, the oem from mazda or like redline, to see if the noise will get quieter. If you change it can you let me know if it makes any difference?

At least we know most likely what the issue is. The only think that worries me is how save is it? Can you drive the car like this? And could it cause any additional damage?

I still wonder why the noise started after an oil change? It did fix shifting(def smoother) but...

[rigor]

oil will make no diff on the whine

[DuBz]

I'm gonna agree with rigor, he seems to know his shit when it comes to transmissions. With this new knowledge he has graciously bestowed upon me, I can't see how taking out good gear oil and replacing it with garbage gear oil would help me at this point.

If I feel like throwing away 70 bucks at the stealership, I'll let you know how it turns out.

[dead-zone]

I agree with both of you. I on top of it, you already tried the friction modifier and that could of made some difference.

Rigor, will this issue cause any further damage on the trans? What do you think?

[rigor]

Originally Posted by dead-zone I agree with both of you. I on top of it, you already tried the friction modifier and that could of made some difference. Rigor, will this issue cause any further damage on the trans? What do you think?

as long as the tranny is not making metal (magnetic flakes) fine metal that looks like mud is ok, as long as it isnt a huge ball of it, id let it go! it just broke in noisy

but if it gets louder check for metal, but if it is staying the same and no metal your good!

a little brass looking stuff is ok that is syncro material, if you see this your being hard on the tranny, and it is going to start jumping out of gear eventually, the syncros are 2 piece and flimsy as hell! same with the shift forks i trashed one of these trannys in 17000 miles

[DuBz]

So after being relieved by this ring and pinion diagnosis I decided to get on the pedal (been babying it since I didn't know the source of the noise) and when I was getting up there in 5th and 6th the whine was insanely loud.......I know speed is a factor, but damn that shit was screaming, guess I'll have to drain a little and check for flakes/brass/dead hooker fragments.

[rigor]

they will sing, is it a high pitch ring?

[DuBz]

yes, absolutely high pitched, it does it in 2nd, 5th, and 6th only, and it used to go away when coasting but now it'll do it anytime I'm in those gears.

[rigor]

iit will damn near make your ears bleed, as long as it don't sound rough or uneven ,just nice smooth ear peircing ring, you should be fine, may need ear plugs though.....

2nd?

mine is starting to whine to

[rigor]

Hy-per Lube Oil Supplement | Oil Stabilizer | Oil Additive

this is some bad ass shit good to 2200 deg compatible with synthetic / non synthetic i run it in my jeep
definitely stop galling,i think im going to put some of this shit in mine, help it out a little lol, im not nice to mine

[DuBz]

I'm sure that BT isn't nice to it either

I just may try this lube you speak of, you think it'll quiet it down?

[rigor]

it does add lots of film strength so it might some, id add a quart of it couldn't hurt,

its hard to diagnose your problem from Oregon lol

our tranny oil is thin for better mpg so this might help quiet it some

[BudUMfan]

Just had mine looked at. Bad bearing in the secondary shaft. Drivable but going to need replacing. 150K beat to death miles. Might just trade it in.

[DuBz]

I'm going to wrap this thread up and assume that I have a bad bearing like this guy^, mine just went 90K sooner. It seems like it's getting slightly louder every time I drive it, but that may just be my car psychosis kicking in.

@rigor; that Hyper-lube molasses you recommended is the shit, I threw the whole Qt. in there and while it's continuing to keep my shifting buttery smooth, it didn't affect the noise at all, as you pretty much predicted.

While I was draining some of the motorcraft I checked it out, there wasn't one flake or fragment of anything in there. However, it seems to be getting louder, and now I'm hearing it ever so slightly in 4th as well, but it is more uneven than 5th or 6th.

I give up, I'm just gonna drive this bitch until it blows.

@SPEED6 KILLAH; you MIGHT be hearing from me very soon.

/thread

[rigor]

to bad i cant ride in it, i could pin point it better, good luck man hope all turns out good

[BPASPEED]

Originally Posted by DuBz I'm going to wrap this thread up and assume that I have a bad bearing like this guy^, mine just went 90K sooner. It seems like it's getting slightly louder every time I drive it, but that may just be my car psychosis kicking in. @rigor; that Hyper-lube molasses you recommended is the shit, I threw the whole Qt. in there and while it's continuing to keep my shifting buttery smooth, it didn't affect the noise at all, as you pretty much predicted. While I was draining some of the motorcraft I checked it out, there wasn't one flake or fragment of anything in there. However, it seems to be getting louder, and now I'm hearing it ever so slightly in 4th as well, but it is more uneven than 5th or 6th. I give up, I'm just gonna drive this bitch until it blows. @SPEED6 KILLAH; you MIGHT be hearing from me very soon. /thread

When it does blow up, simply google blown tranny. You'll get all your answers there. They even have how to videos.