Uh oh i make boom boom
 

So leaving work yesterday do a 1-2 gear change around 3-3500 and guess what? #4 rod decided to relocate itself through the side of the block. I never would've thought that it could happen this way and i never believed anyones story before. Since it happened to me well i am a definate believer. Stupid crappy engineering.

sorry to hear---

mods? tuning?

x2

I am so sorry for your loss bro. if you are willing to help the community out, it would be cool to let everyone know some details about what happened.

you said this about a week ago:

"I have intake, inlet, catless racepipe, and 3" exhaust."

im assuming your mods remain the same? anything different? mileage? boost?

Sorry man... Did you feel any excessive clutch vibration prior?

No mods were the same i was running a cobb AP as well stage 1 93 +sf. Car is sitting at the dealer waiting to for their discretion. With the month i have been having signs do not point to anything good, but i will remain optimistic. Car showed no signs of anything. Just a 1-2 change and boom. I was have been easy on it the past week or so. A few pulls nothing crazy. My guess is its just a time thing. Its something that has happened overtime and finally enough was enough and it just gaveway. Mileage at time was 28,2xx

I think you might have been running the wrong tune through the AP.

Sorry to hear. Good luck.

how do you figure?

did you unmarry the ap before taking it to mazda?

Interesting...since it didn't go boom under boost I can only assume the wrist pin siezed up or something like that.

If your mods are:

and you're running:

then you were running the wrong tune...not the ideal tune anyway.

We've been told by christian we can run either stage 1 or 2 with a rp so I highly doubt the tune had anything to do with it.

Those 93 tunes are awfully hot... ive seen people with 93 octane knock with them. I take it, you dont have a DH and didnt bother to check the PID data while running that map the first several days after flashing it?

you guys are silly
those ap tunes are NOT aggressive and not enough to cause engine failure

no way jose or joseb

I thought the 93 octane AP tunes were pretty hot too, when I had an AP I used to see 22psi spikes with stage 1+. It felt awesome but I just didn't like those spikes. To the OP I'm really sorry about your car, I hope Mazda doesn't give you too hard of a time.

damn, this suck, all he has is a few bolt on and a AP tune, 28k miles and it blows...it can't be the bolt on, so its either the AP map or shitty engine...I'm tired of these blown engine, sorry man, I hope they dissect it and find out the problem. Did you took the car to the dealer with your stuff on or you change back to stock?

I was running the su testpipe on both stage 1 and 2 + with the cobb sri and inlet and i took off the test pipe because the car was running like shit and it still is with eveything the map is calling for..... i will wait till june with the ap otherwise cpe standback here i come.

With a turbo inlet he could have easily been in the boost at 3000-3500 rpms.
My RPMC has boost coming on by 2500 rpm.

I took all the mods off the car other than the exhaust. I did un marry the ap. Ok i am going to put this to rest once and for all. I am not an idiot. I did just hope for the best and fly by the seat of my pants on this one. I have been working in close correlation with christiain sending him logs and him sending me maps with the adjusted tunes. This was not an off the shelf 103 map just keep that in mind, so it was tuned idealy for my car baded on the logs i sent to christian.

You're not going to make much boost in 1st gear even at WOT at that rpm.

I was in normaly drving so if i was in boost it was no more than 3-4psi. I dont just rap out the car everywhere i go. I do try to drive with resever the majority of the time.

my guess, he was in boost about 5 psi, this turbo spins quick as hell on our motor, and the ecu went lean and pop, no dh ftl

Thanks for the info. Considering this has happened a few times before I see no reason to doubt you.

Now if only someone could figure out what is happening. I still think it's the goofy ECU.

A car should not break from normal driving. It just should not happen. I mean if thats the case the car is not safe to drive then, because i dont know anyone who just drives around in racecar mode all the time. What good would a dashhawk do me in this case? Am i supposed to be so paranoid of my car blowing up that i am supposed to watch that rather than the road in front of me during normal driving conditions? Had i been railing on the car sure i could understand it maybe even expect it.

This is not the first case we have seen of this and i really wonder what the problem is that is causing this. I know somewhere i have read something about the clips on that hold the piston ring in place being a problem and not being able to hold even stock power levels.

idk im still sticking to my theory that the ecu tends to stay in open loop if you boost around that area and the car runs lean, really lean which causes it

had nothing to do with the ap. another one blows with the balance shaft intact.. get that shit out of there asap! Sorry bout your loss.

Blown engine thread:

1. "just driving it down the street"

2. part throttle 4-4.5k

3. cruising in 6th

4. hydro-lock

5. cruising in 6th

6. bad injector

7. over rev

8. cruising in 6th

9. jumped timing

10. 5th at 3500rpm

11. pulling into garage at 5mph

12. gunned it at 4.5k

14. accelerating in 3rd at 19psi

15. WOT 2nd-4th

18. 50mph no boost

20. 2nd-3rd WOT

21. WOT in 3rd

22. oil loss

23. 3-4k rpm part boost

27. 2nd-3rd light driving

28. 30psi over boost

29. 1st-2nd 3-3.5k rpm

The pattern: 11/22 are no or part boost at lower rpm. 7/22 are WOT/high boost. 4/11 are "other." It seems like every configuration from stock to BT, AP, standback, meth, fuel pump have all popped. Not many people have the BSD yet, but no one with the BSD has blow yet.

However, there are some who have beat the piss out of their car with meth/fuel pump + various mods & no BSD.

What can we conclude?

that i need an s4

well 20-and21 doesnt say they had a pump upgrade, and i thought jimmy mac overboosted?
has there been any car to blow up at wot that didnt overboost or didnt have a cdfp upgrade?

Interested to know how many running meth have popped. Anyone have any figures on that?

no one that i know of besides buildabong but i dont count him he just started running it and was loading it up a hill, this motor creates a ton of heat so thats another good point

I know people are saying not to blame the AP. The last 3 or 4 people I have read about blowing up were running AP's. It might be a coincidence, but it is something I am keeping my eye on.

Only one known meth user has popped.

thats probably just because A LOT of people have APs.

I've only read of one other besides this one. Can you link the other one or two you are talking about?

who blew iwth meth?

buildabong

But he was having other boost issues and stuff right? Wasn't he using a mbc too?

he just started using meth right before he blew, he doesnt count

no ap, with ap, no meth, with meth,...it blows regardless, part throttle, or wot...and almost every gear, is there any other scenario that we havent pointed out,
how about plain stock, have there been any stock car that have blown and have warranty done on it by dealer....if yes..then whats the results...sorry if I already miss this issue

nobody that has been running meth consistently has blown up, also nobody with a cdfp upgrade has blown up full throttle either

Yes, stock cars have blown.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ce-thread.html

Ya mine had the CDFP upgrade as well. Also my deal had one about a week ago that blew up because 2 injectors stuck open and bent 2 rods.

d00d, jarod, i'm sorry man. that sucks. good luck with the dealership.
worse comes to worse, you can have p3 build your engine

lmao

I thought the thought behind the BSD was that it prevented oiling issues with cylinder #3? How many of the engines have had issues with cylinder #3? (This one was #4)

I am just going to wait until monday and see what they decide. Then take my course of action from there.

Before getting out of hand, I think most people can agree that this was probably due to a manufacturing issue with the engine. There was very little load to speak of on the motor when it let go.

damn japanese in hiroshima can't build anything right

j/k lol

What I'd like to know is this: has anyone who has a knock warning at below 3-4 ever blown an engine?

Until it can be shown that excessive knock is not the cause of most of these failures I'd say it's a MUST-HAVE in these cars to have a knock warning when you hit 2.

PID data?

ok here is another one, has any speed6 or cx7 blown a engine?

I don't think Jarod did anything extreme for the engine to go out. It just doesn't make sense with all this said blown engine with mild mod.

balance shaft *cough cough*

Quite a few speed6's have blown.

Balance shaft should have anything to do with Cyl #4.

i don't care which cyl it was. When you find me a motor that has blown with the BSD complete then i will drop this theory. Until then i will stick by it. Also seems that there are more speed3's this happens with but then again there are more speed3's on the road than ms6's

That's my theory as well (IIRC you even PM'd me about one of my posts in the past and I told you about it), and I'm obviously a huge proponent of doing the BSD for safety, but to blindly state that the BS caused this as well or that a BSD might have prevented it is silly, IMO.

well im just saying it may have very well aided in it. Or maybe it did not cause it at all, however i don't buy half of what people say on these boards... "i was cruising at 2k and motor just popped" No it didnt.

could it be just a lemon? i mean cars are massed produced... a couple of them are bound to be shot.... just a thought. thats why mazda only gives warn. to 36000 ha.... btw sorry about your loss.... either way it sucks big time...

You know i was just as big of a sceptic as you and i never would have believed that this could happen until it happened to me. It seems it does just "pop"

so now we talking about gen coupe? lets get back to blown motor.

Wasn't there a 100% stock speed3 with blown engine? So we can rule BSD out..right.
I have over 52k now with minor bolt on, I love driving this car so much that I'll be piss if this car blows...

hell with it, if it goes it goes...like palerider said.

I'm gonna try to enjoy mine

Jarod, hope you get your car back soon.

100% stock would mean balance shaft not DELETED.

So no you can't rule that out until we see a ms3/ms6 with BSD and a blown motor.

Which dealership?

^This.

BS = balance shaft

BSD = Balance shaft deleted

Stock car doesn't have the BSD.

Delete that bitch

ha, thats a good one.. Those guys are cp-e's neighbors right? The ones who dont even know how to set a boost controler... Then after they blow up your car they steal your mods and sell them. Then they deny it and fuck you oit of THOUSANDS of dollars. Yeah, thats where i would go !
If mazda decides to screw you, call PG and get a built motor, remove BS and beat this piss out of it !

that sucks man. hopefully you took it to lou fuz and none of the shitty bommarito dealerships. what rpms were u at when u shifted?

I tend to agree

I have never seen an Australian MPS3 do this lean closed loop positive boost thing.
Ive said it before.. as soon as we see boost it goes into open loop, and drives the afr towards rich. Maybe your silly American emissions tune is stuffing your motor?

i can haz australian ecu?

If I boost in part throttle it stays around 13 AFR in closed loop...usually around 12 psi or so.

Some people are just in plain denial. These engines suck plain whether stock or midly modded...plain and simple.
It's not a matter of if...it's when.
When someone blows with the bs delete then I guess there will be no more speculation.
BTW...bs delete is permanent isn't it. If so, and it blows you can bet that engine won't be warrantied as soon as they pull off the pan.

In an ideal world...an AP will be able to rip the flash off an AU ECU, email it to us in NA...then profit...well, at least more fun, and maybe less headaches...

hmm how many aus cars have blown?

Sorry, im not sure which planet you guys live on, but deleting the BSD isnt going to stop detonation... nor will it stop you from blowing this engine.

Failures such as rod/piston letting go at non wot is fatigue. Long term detonation will weaken the rod from the inside. This is why i push for people running bolt on's to invest in a meth system long before they go ape shit with engine tuning. Ive seen these cars knock stock.

you guys can speculate all you like, but this is long term detonation finally doing its damage.

For future persons reading this, monitor your PIDs closely with a dashhawk or other device while tuning or trying maps out. 2 weeks of logging can save your ass. If you are knocking on meth, you got some serious fucking problems.

deleting the delete?

Well, i have run some pretty hot maps while developing MSF maps.. 100's infact... ive had not one issue. I have straight whored this fuckin car... so.. ive easily placed 14,000 of hard AP mapping miles to this car and no blown engine.

The one thing i do different is i dont go smacking WOT with a fresh map.. i drive the car 60 miles normally, little to no boost and act like a senior citizen.. after that, i begin short WOT blasts logging AFR, knock, timing, BAT, and IAT... i study these and compare them to my other data.. i slowly get the map acquainted to the car, then beat the shit out of it.

Ive had my meth disconnected since October ( scared meth tank/odors were affecting my child ) and was set to put it back into action 11 days ago until the famous PTP plug nozzle failed me. Anyhow, if the map is safe, the car will be safe.. Just dont go out and beat the shit out of it once you are done flashing it. Check your PID's guys.

None that I have heard of...

how many mazdaspeed car are over there in oz?

Anyone want to look into importing an Australian ECU?

okay...from what i've read from all the engine blown threads, running meth is about the only way to prevent blown engines...but there are really no hard facts as to the reason why people are blowing up...i know in general...like Haltech mentioned...long term denotation or knock can lead to this problem...now, stock cars are also known to knock..but i want to know is why, or when does it knock...i know from all the threads i've read bout this issue almost all of the people who have blown up were cruising at partial throttle between 3k-4k rpm or shifting between these two points...i know some people have ruled out this theory but i think, since this seems to be the common factor of all the incidents reported, someone should find out what is going on when driving like this...maybe shifting between these two points at partial throttle leads to knock (just a theory)...for those with a dash hawk or any other logging device (cuz i don't have one yet)...can you data log normal driving at partial throttle and shifting between 3k-4k rpm.and compare it to shifting below 3k and shifting above 4k at partial throttle...i know some people may not like the idea of blowing engines due to continously shifting at a danger zone but i figured, you can't really rule anything out until you have actually proven it.

i am really curious as to the whole euro/aussie/jdm failure rate too. I wonder how they correspond. I would also like to see a ratio of blown disi mzr's to the amount of cars sold with it.

next thing to look at is the region the blown cars appear in. is there a correlation between region and blown engines? Factors such as gas quality and ethanol content might come up

What PTP plug nozzle?

its a freeze plug to replace the stock one on the IM for WI. it's not the motor, its the tune and closed loop. its short of being OTS maps on the AP. once we can disable closed loop we're golden. this thing runs too lean in boost/short of WOT. even at transition i'm not sure i like where AFR is at + the addition of knock, boom.

Funny thing is about all this is meth was on my list of things to buy after i was able to tune the car. Now it seems i should have just bought it anyway. I was afraid it would make the car run way to rich and there would be little to no gain from it. How i was proved wrong.

I agree with it being an issue with detonation. But the problem is is that stock cars do the same thing. So it makes me wonder what the issue is with tuning in general on this car. I mean at WOT it only shows i am at 13 degrees timing and knock when i monitored it through data logs would never rise above .8. The one time about 2 months ago i saw 3-5 degrees knock you could feel the timing being pulled to next to nothing, at which point i imeadiatly got out of it. I wonder if this single event caused the begining of the problem. I know with my race car when it detonates its very audible. Yet another reason this really disturbs me.

or how about they post up some of their data logs if someone down there has a dashhawk? Curious to see what the Aus stock tune performs like and if they get any part throttle KR readings.

that's because stockers are not blowing...

Thats not true. Stock cars have blow up too.

Hal,

Couldn't you just run more water/meth mix? I'm actually looking into myself...just sticking with a primary WI (water) system, with just a bit of meth added in.

how do you know MI/WI isn't just a band-aid?

Hey Hal, do you still have your balance shaft in the car?

but if you aren't knocking at WOT with your map how else can meth help you? because meth is not sprayed while cruising, unless you are saying that the damage is done at WOT, but I guess i'm fine since i never see more than .35 KR at WOT. Although I'll still be putting meth/water on shortly whenever PTP comes back from his hiatus.

Knock at WOT is what causes the damage. This KR everyone sees at part throttle is nothing. I've yet to see a case of audible knock at part throttle.

not trying to be negative or an ass, but i REALLY feel bad for you and ALL who have had this issue...and indeed i do believe Haltech hit it on the head with what to do when changing maps on the AP....but following closely for 2 years now the cars that have ben popping i have only run into 1 stocker that had a issue, everyone else has had mods and 95% seem to have a tune of some sort....maybe there is more stockers with a issue, but i am un-aware of it..This is is BS IMO, but how the fuck do cat's like Haltech, Laloosh,. Woosh, amd many others have high power #s, hit there cars hard, and never had an issue with the engine???? I no plenty of guy's running a little extra hp/tq fully bolted without meth that are still pumping well. As Mouse mentioned this issue SUCKS...and every fucking day i read about engine failures makes me want to throw in the towel...but i won't yet....it makes sense to me to drive in balance till things are figured out....but that 300=430bhp car stock gets better and better looking all the time...except for the financial outlay.

A couple things to note, as I have a dashhawk and do the same drive every single night when I get off work:

1) Its not 100% consistent, but about 70% of the time I only start registering part throttle KR once my coolate hits 160 degrees F. Once the coolant goes over 175 or so (operating temp 180), it goes away for the most part.

2) I get about 2.5 degrees KR WOT 5th gear about half the time (upper RPM ranges, 4k +), and never have I registered KR in WOT 1-4th, at least that Ive seen.

3) This goes for everyone, NEVER EVER boost your car before it hits op. temp. EVER. We all knew that though, right?

Im wondering if all these part throttle blown engines are caused from rolling into boost when the ECU is registering KR. A sudden transition into positive pressure during a part throttle knock event would/could cause some damage, and its for this that I have a 3 stage alarm set on my DH for KR.

[QUOTE=Crossbow;190546]Hal,

I dont run a 50/50 mix but it still has an odor. I just wanted to make sure all was well before i introduced it back into the car. Im moving the res to the front of the car and locating the pump to the rear. Im trying to make a vent for the tank top so i can place the tank back in the rear.

Yes and i have no plans of removing it until i build the engine.

Thats the point, it is a bandaid.. a long term one at that...

Part throttle KR is not knock, its engine noise. I've actually held at 3k rpm at let it throw KR at part throttle and heard zero audible knock. I can, however, feel a good bit of resonance throughout the car. I've heard audible knock with KR registering as little as 4 degrees and heard nothing when seeing as much as 7 degrees at part throttle.

Knocking at WOT is what does the damage. The cruising knock you see is engine noise and/or transmission noise the sensors are picking up. This is more noticeable with guys running more solid mounts in there car. The solid points are transferring this audible driveline noise to the sensors. Proof is you look at Randy's car when he got it back after it was built. The piston slap from his forged Arias were being picked up from his knock sensors.

Im thinking about disconnecting the two sensors and running some tests.