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MazdaSpeed 3 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline Discussion of engine, tranny and drivelines.


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 Old 09-29-2018, 04:40 PM   #1
 
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Default Verifying tdc

I am doing a vvt job on my new to me ms3. I bought it partially disassembled after the owner got in over his head, and I need to verify timing. I have the blind plug tdc tool, but the crank pulley was already removed so I have no reference to know whether it is at tdc or 180 degrees out. I’m assuming that the crank should encounter the pin from the “bottom” (ie, turning the crank bolt clockwise), but I believe this would happen at least twice in its cycle. Any tips?
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 Old 09-29-2018, 06:28 PM   #2
 
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So I pulled the valve cover assuming that I could find the appropriate tdc orientation by looking for closed valves, but rotating the crank doesn’t spin the cams. The timing cover is still on, and chain is still taut around the cam sprockets. What’s going on here?
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 Old 09-30-2018, 04:28 AM   #3
 
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Ok so this is a interference motor. Google it.

If the crank is spinning and the cams are not this means
1) there is no chain
2 the crank sprocket is spinning freely.
The crank sprokdet is not keyed. If the crank bolt isnt torqued down the sprocket wont spin. It is samwiched between the crank and crank pully.....So on to the dun dun DUNNNNNN... The cams didnt move so valves were open while pistons were moving up and down... Chances are you bent a valve.

At this point take the timing cover off and the cams OUT. Do a leak down test and if you didnt bend a valve proceed to put the block at TDC and install the cams at TDC then continue on with the job.

If leakdown shows mucho leakage pull the head and hope for the best. A head job is about 200 ish not counting a head gasket or valves.

Spinning the crank when cams dont move = bent valves.
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 Old 09-30-2018, 07:45 AM   #4
 
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I get what you’re saying, and thanks for the help but I wasn’t very clear. The car was a coworkers and ran fine prior, just had the vvt rattle. He began to disassemble it but never got around to finishing. Basically, all he did was remove the crank pulley before giving up.

He says that he had it at tdc when he removed it, but when I took possession of the car the crank was NOT bumped up against the tdc stop pin, so I’d like to verify that the bottom end is in the correct orientation. Looking at the cams with the valve cover off, they seem to be in the same orientation as the pic provided in the vvt how-to on this forum (#1 cam lobes opposing each other at 45 degrees). I understand now why the cams don’t move with the crank, so I just need to be sure that the crank is aligned correctly.

Obviously I can see that the piston is at the top of its stroke when it hits the tdc pin, but what I don’t know is if this is TDC on the compression stroke. Maybe it doesn’t matter as long as the cams are in compression stroke position? So is it as simple as if the crank is on the pin, it’s correct?
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 Old 09-30-2018, 05:10 PM   #5
 
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Compression stroke vs exhaust stroke is dependant on the cams, not the crank. If the cams are pointing the correct way and the piston is TDC, you're good to go.
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 Old 09-30-2018, 05:12 PM   #6
 
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The cam determins if tdc is the intake/exhaust or the power/compression stroke. Tdc on crank and cams in proper position with the timing plate in.

The main issue here is you said you spun the crank and the cams didnt move. If thats true you need to make sure you didnt hit any valves.
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