We're getting somewhere ...

[mazdaj]

this is great info, but like others have said how can you explain cx-7's hitting 100k + miles already and not having the issues that we have...

[superskaterxes]

CX-7's? have u ever seen a modded cx-7 jay? lol i diddent think so. im not saying the problem doesent happen stock but as soon as u start modding it just gets worse.

is this making anyone else sick to their stomach? this is literally the most disheartening news i have heard in a while. that vulture thread was easier on me then this lol

[Lex]

Originally Posted by mazdaj this is great info, but like others have said how can you explain cx-7's hitting 100k + miles already and not having the issues that we have...

They are not driven as hard, don't see as much boost, don't see as much heat, don't see as much load etc.

[kgb]

Lex....I'm going to sound like one of those guys but I've be with you since day one. You put in words well thought explanations. However, I understand this is still a "work in progress" discovery. I don't pretend to understand completely so here are some questions:

1. It was hinted at before but will a thicker oil band-aid this at least a bit? Higher octane as well?

2. The PTP burning oil fix also helps by minimizing the amount of oil ingested? OCC helps too?

3. What would we have to replace to avoid this or is going forged the only solution?

Keep it up man!

[NRSpeed]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes CX-7's? have u ever seen a modded cx-7 jay? lol i diddent think so. im not saying the problem doesent happen stock but as soon as u start modding it just gets worse. is this making anyone else sick to their stomach? this is literally the most disheartening news i have heard in a while. that vulture thread was easier on me then this lol

You must not have watched the video attached....

[spheed3]

If this was an engineering flaw, as is what I understand Lex is trying to say, it wouldn't matter if it was stock or modded or whatever. The reason I don't quite buy this theory is because if there was some sort of design flaw it would have most likely been addresed after the first couple dozen cx7s tossed rods. In my experiance engineering flaws will generally happen frequently and predictably, this motor popping issue is neither. I appreciate the work anyway Lex.

[8.5MS3]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes is this making anyone else sick to their stomach? this is literally the most disheartening news i have heard in a while. that vulture thread was easier on me then this lol

yes I feel like i just got kicked in the nuts and gut checked at the same time....

[subparpunk03]

Lex, what about seafoam in the oil 100 miles before oil changes to help clean deposits?

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by spheed3 If this was an engineering flaw, as is what I understand Lex is trying to say, it wouldn't matter if it was stock or modded or whatever. The reason I don't quite buy this theory is because if there was some sort of design flaw it would have most likely been addresed after the first couple dozen cx7s tossed rods. In my experiance engineering flaws will generally happen frequently and predictably, this motor popping issue is neither. I appreciate the work anyway Lex.

The flaw is a characteristic of DI and people like Lenny have already stated companies work in percents and even though our 180 deep blown motor list seems like tons to them all the blown motors probably don't equal 3% between the ms3', cx7, and Ms6.

[NRSpeed]

Originally Posted by Lex The lower line is likely where it had already broken.

Just making sure, this is what Im talking about.



Is this just previous damage, damage from removal, or possibly from the piston seizing up?

[spheed3]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 The flaw is a characteristic of DI and people like Lenny have already stated companies work in percents and even though our 180 deep blown motor list seems like tons to them all the blown motors probably don't equal 3% between the ms3', cx7, and Ms6.

Oh I know and I agree 100%. It's the fact that we are under that magic number for Mazda to get involved that keeps me from believing this motor blowing issue is some sort of epidemic. For example, Lexus heard of maybe a dozen 06-08 ISs and GSs with corrodid fuel pipes and recalled all 300,000 cars from each year.

[Thestaplegunkid]

Originally Posted by NRSpeed Just making sure, this is what Im talking about. Is this just previous damage, damage from removal, or possibly from the piston seizing up?

I believe that is the mark made after the piston got smacked cock eyed in the bore by the flailing rod.

[skeeter149]

damn!!!!!

[_Toxic_]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 The flaw is a characteristic of DI and people like Lenny have already stated companies work in percents and even though our 180 deep blown motor list seems like tons to them all the blown motors probably don't equal 3% between the ms3', cx7, and Ms6.

Does anybody know how many ms3, ms6 has been built around the world?

[NRSpeed]

Originally Posted by Thestaplegunkid I believe that is the mark made after the piston got smacked cock eyed in the bore by the flailing rod.

Yea, I was kind of wondering about that, if thats the case then wouldnt the wear marks be further along the wall? Down closer to where the piston seized up near the bottom of the cylinder?

[BlackMS3]

I have a feeling the price of PI heads are going to go up!!! LOL!!

Someone call DCR and tell them to just drop the DI gig altogether and make us a PI/BT package good for 500+hp without worrying about any of these issues again!!!

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by _Toxic_ Does anybody know how many ms3, ms6 has been built around the world?

it was something like 9k ms3 in 07 and 10 in 08 I have no idea about 09

Lets assume there was 10k made for each car each year that would be

40k ms3's
30k ms6's
30kcx7's?

100k of our motors in America alone

1% would be a thousand cars needed to blow. No company is going to look into 1k cars blowing their motors specially when they void half of them for the slightest thing out of stock spec and once your voided they don't apply you to their blown motor statistics your like a ghost to them. God only knows how many they have sold world wide all combined for eash car. Basically what I'm saying is we are screwed. When you saw the Subaru motors getting recalled trust me it musta been like a 10% or higher fail rate world wide that got them to move their asses.

[_Toxic_]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 it was something like 9k ms3 in 07 and 10 in 08 I have no idea about 09 Lets assume there was 10k made for each car each year that would be 40k ms3's 30k ms6's 30kcx7's? 100k of our motors in America alone 1% would be a thousand cars needed to blow. No company is going to look into 1k cars blowing their motors specially when they void half of them for the slightest thing out of stock spec and once your voided they don't apply you to their blown motor statistics your like a ghost to them. God only knows how many they have sold world wide all combined for eash car. Basically what I'm saying is we are screwed. When you saw the Subaru motors getting recalled trust me it musta been like a 10% or higher fail rate world wide that got them to move their asses.

Should be possible to find out how many are made exactly, but good guessing i think. Its the same engine in these cars but i dont think we can compare them with each other that much, i mean they must have different settings like in the ECU/ gear ratio/turbo boost or what not.
Specially the Cx7.. does it really have the same internals in the engine and so as the speed3,6?

When motors blow i dont think they wait until like 10% blows, it should be a huge problem if motors blow up stock! its not like it is some minor problem like windshield squeking or so.

But if they wait till 10% stock motors blow, well they do.. warranty or not, they shouldnt charge people to fix it if thats happenes. just speculations......

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by _Toxic_ Should be possible to find out how many are made exactly, but good guessing i think. Its the same engine in these cars but i dont think we can compare them with each other that much, i mean they must have different settings like in the ECU/ gear ratio/turbo boost or what not. Specially the Cx7.. does it really have the same internals in the engine and so as the speed3,6? When motors blow i dont think they wait until like 10% blows, it should be a huge problem if motors blow up stock! its not like it is some minor problem like windshield squeking or so. But if they wait till 10% stock motors blow, well they do.. warranty or not, they shouldn't charge people to fix it if thats happens. just speculations......

What I said is real general but if what Lex pointed out is true its a DI characteristic and not just a ms3/ms6 thing. All the motors would show signs of it. If some one could get P# to answer how mine looked that would tell you. I had 38k HARD fucking miles on that thing.

[Slideways]

Originally Posted by kgb Lex....I'm going to sound like one of those guys but I've be with you since day one. You put in words well thought explanations. However, I understand this is still a "work in progress" discovery. I don't pretend to understand completely so here are some questions: 1. It was hinted at before but will a thicker oil band-aid this at least a bit? Higher octane as well? 2. The PTP burning oil fix also helps by minimizing the amount of oil ingested? OCC helps too? 3. What would we have to replace to avoid this or is going forged the only solution? Keep it up man!

Yeah second that. I'm willing to do a lot of little band aids if I can make my motor last longer. I'd really like to do an intake on my car because the power drop off at 6 anoy's me. But I don't want to hasten the damage to my rings. What are some idea's on it. Lets not get 30 posts of 'dude your screwed like the rest of us" Lets put some heads together and see what little tricks can be done to help out.

[_Toxic_]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 What I said is real general but if what Lex pointed out is true its a DI characteristic and not just a ms3/ms6 thing. All the motors would show signs of it. If some one could get P# to answer how mine looked that would tell you. I had 38k HARD fucking miles on that thing.

Maybe true.. but have we seen sign of it in the "other" engines? If that was the case, all these cars will blow up eventually u mean? Stock or not? Was the picture shown in this thread from a stock or tuned/modded car? (the first pictures in this thread)

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by _Toxic_ Maybe true.. but have we seen sign of it in the "other" engines? If that was the case, all these cars will blow up eventually u mean? Stock or not? Was the picture shown in this thread from a stock or tuned/modded car? (the first pictures in this thread)

It was modded but IMO I always felt that all the motors had a flaw that made its a candidate to blow.

[AndyMS3]

Anyone know what the piston rings are made of?

[rodrigo]

thank you.

Originally Posted by Darksun280 The flaw is a characteristic of DI and people like Lenny have already stated companies work in percents and even though our 180 deep blown motor list seems like tons to them all the blown motors probably don't equal 3% between the ms3', cx7, and Ms6.

thank you

Originally Posted by Darksun280 it was something like 9k ms3 in 07 and 10 in 08 I have no idea about 09 Lets assume there was 10k made for each car each year that would be 40k ms3's 30k ms6's 30kcx7's? 100k of our motors in America alone 1% would be a thousand cars needed to blow. No company is going to look into 1k cars blowing their motors specially when they void half of them for the slightest thing out of stock spec and once your voided they don't apply you to their blown motor statistics your like a ghost to them. God only knows how many they have sold world wide all combined for eash car. Basically what I'm saying is we are screwed. When you saw the Subaru motors getting recalled trust me it musta been like a 10% or higher fail rate world wide that got them to move their asses.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________


I find all this searching for answers very commendable. Keep digging and maybe soon we can build a bulletproof engine here with this ms3.

that aside, make no mistake.....for manufacturers such as Mazda or any other car manufacturer it's simple math. We tend to forget that we are a community of modded ms3's , and in the manufacturers eyes NOT ONE SINGLE blow up of a mildly - fully bolted ms3/ms6 even counts , simply because you MODIFIED IT. but pretending for a moment that they did feel the need to include all these blow ups it would still be a negligible %age of the whole production line for this engine.

you guys are comparing a 4k member forum vs the # of people that have blown up....the ratios are obviously much different.

[djuosnteisn]

I guess now the fail boat has completely sunk...

[802MS3]

so even though Blackstone's UOA said I could go to 8,000mi on my next oil change with PP 5w-40 (the sample I sent them had about 5k on it), I probably shouldn't do that?

[NRSpeed]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I guess now the fail boat has completely sunk...

Its more like slowly tipping, just pray your car isnt on the side going in the water.

Im still wondering what where mods and info of the car from which the pictures have been gathered. What kind of mileage, mods, typical driving patterns, etc.

[_Toxic_]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 It was modded but IMO I always felt that all the motors had a flaw that made its a candidate to blow.

Not trying too be a dick or anything.. but putting on a lot of bolt ons and not tune or tune with a bad tune is a fail on these cars.. saying this because i havent seen any complete stock cars blown.

Not until some tuning company comes up with a tune and cracks the ECU on how its working on these cars, then whe can start modding etc...

[MATT DAMOND]

Wow, Lex definitely seems to be on to something here.

I know this has been asked a few times, but I'm going to reiterate it till there is an answer.

What can we do to help prevent against this, for aided reliability?

1. Thicker high grade oil, like 10w-30, or 10w-40?
2. Oil additives, "Engine Restorer" comes to mind, to help reduce cylinder wall scoring.
3. OCCs or VTA valve cover breather, to prevent oil burning?
4. EGR delete or restriction?
5. Make the car run leaner, SRI for un-tuned folks, or tune the AFI to be leaner?
6. Cryo-treated engine components, to reduce expansion from constant temp changes?
7. Seafoaming often, to reduce carbon build up?
8. Leave in the BS assenbly, to reduce motor vibrations?
9. This would take some machining, but what if we swapped the location of the plugs and the injectors?


I don't know about you guys, but I plan on taking this motor past 150k.

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by MATT DAMOND I don't know about you guys, but I plan on taking this motor past 150k.

well thats great that you plan on it.... however i don't think the Mr.Disi himself plans too...

[boardjnky4]

seafoaming won't help build-up in the rings

[superskaterxes]

you need to run RICHER. rich=cool. thats why people with BT's and people who beat on their cars last. if you taking a long cruise make sure u dont just to 3k rpms the whole way there. get into boost every so often and vary the RPM's.

[boardjnky4]

I drive my bitch like I stole it.

The ring issue is REALLY scary though, especially since I don't know the history of oil changes with my car. :gulp:

[NRSpeed]

Call me a pic whore, but I want to see more pics of the carnage and findings.

[IshiKage]

this guy in sweden blew his speed in 6th gear. on secondmotor

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showt...hp?t=123754538

[jwdp54]

imo not really worried on why these motors blow. if i was i'd go forged. plus don't go by what one pic shows. if everyone that has blown posted a similar pic i'd believe him then.

but for now i'm more concerned on why i can't make more POWER.... figure that out first.

[superskaterxes]

lol is anyone even viewing any other threads right now? haha

[_Toxic_]

Originally Posted by jwdp54 imo not really worried on why these motors blow. if i was i'd go forged. plus don't go by what one pic shows. if everyone that has blown posted a similar pic i'd believe him then. but for now i'm more concerned on why i can't make more POWER.... figure that out first.

I have read about some people with JUST an SRI intake thats getting CEL codes: P0300 and P0303, thats random missfires and missfire in cylinder #3. Isnt that cylinder wich oftens blows?

[danesti]

should i buy stock in the largest manufacturer of these?


in a way this gives hope..

[Lex]

Lots of questions here and I certainly don't have all the answers. This is the motor the piston and rod are from: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...-no-56k-19727/

Apparently low miles. Probably dyno oil used like Mazda suggests

No we can't change the location of the injector with the spark plug, the flame front will go towards the cylinder wall.

Not sure if seafoaming will do anything to the oil passages on the rings - best bet in my opinion would be changing oil often (I change it at 3k miles) with a full synthetic.

Also we know that knock is induced if the car is heatsoaked/prolonged driving and prone to knock if we get on it. Try and lean into it a little slower before going full race mode.

Cooling it off with some meth is not a bad idea.

However, and unfortunately the uneven heating/cooling of pistons and poor oil control along with cylinder wall washoff will still exist. It's as Darksun has pointed out part of the particular DI design in our car.