We're getting somewhere ...

[subparpunk03]

Originally Posted by boardjnky4 seafoaming won't help build-up in the rings

It should if you put it in the oil. At least thats what Seafoam themself advertises:
Motor Treatment - Sea Foam

"Safely frees sticky lifters and piston rings, removes carbon
build-up and oil residue"

[Lex]

Originally Posted by subparpunk03 It should if you put it in the oil. At least thats what Seafoam themself advertises: Motor Treatment - Sea Foam "Safely frees sticky lifters and piston rings, removes carbon build-up and oil residue"

I'd love to see more teardown pics of these motors that have blown and get more parts

[cbspeed3]

you just made me want to sell my car

[Laloosh]

Couple common sense questions:
What makes you think the piston siezes prior to the rod breaking? How bout the rod breaking causing the piston to sieze?
What makes you think thinkt he piston always siezes under part throttle at low rpm?
If this was really the case here, they would be popping at higher rpm, more friction, more heat, more rpm obviously.
Sounds like more people reaching deep into lalaland to find answers.

here another good one, why are the rings rubbing in the 2x2 section of the wall and not anywhere else? Sounds like a bent rod prior to boomage.....this theory is fail

[Scatt Nasty]

all I know is the only times I've ever had audible knock were both going WOT after driving for 3 hours in 90-110 degree weather. The motor being heatsoaked driving at 3300 for that long = knock

I think I might be hitting up the mitsu/subie dealership soon.

[Laloosh]

all this extended cruise bullshit, you guys realize that what you are describing applies to most cars right? not just this one.

[Lex]

I think Laloosh that all you can possibly say is fail.

The reason the scuffing happens midway is due to the lateral forces on the piston being largest during combustion at that point in its motion mr engineer.

Until you can prove anything further I won't waste my time.

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by Lex I think Laloosh that all you can possibly say is fail. The reason the scuffing happens midway is due to the lateral forces on the piston being largest during combustion at that point in its motion mr engineer. Until you can prove anything further I won't waste my time.

actually the greatest forces happen at the top and bottom of each stroke genius. Not in the middle
care to answer any of my above questions? CAsue to me you still sound like some1 who googled how engines work

[rodrigo]

and here... we ...go!!!

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Laloosh actually the greatest forces happen at the top and bottom of each stroke genius. Not in the middle care to answer any of my above questions? CAsue to me you still sound like some1 who googled how engines work

Clearly you don't understand physics and where a piston is located with respect to the rod throughout the stroke and the lateral forces involved.

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by Lex Clearly you don't understand physics and where a piston is located with respect to the rod throughout the stroke and the lateral forces involved.

id ont understand physics.....lol.
Car to explain to me how the piston speed/force is greater in the middle then the top or bottom of each stroke? AFter all at the top or bottom the piston has to do a complete 180 in momentum.....right? humor me

[subparpunk03]

Originally Posted by Lex I think Laloosh that all you can possibly say is fail. The reason the scuffing happens midway is due to the lateral forces on the piston being largest during combustion at that point in its motion mr engineer. Until you can prove anything further I won't waste my time.

Originally Posted by Laloosh actually the greatest forces happen at the top and bottom of each stroke genius. Not in the middle care to answer any of my above questions? CAsue to me you still sound like some1 who googled how engines work

He said lateral forces.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lateral

[Laloosh]

ok i missed the lateral part, true, however they still should not be contacting the cylinder walls if the everything is according to spec. That motor either had bearing issues or a bent rod prior to destruction. Care to post a picture of where those marks are from a higher angle, this way we can see if those marks even line up with these lateral forces.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Laloosh id ont understand physics.....lol. Car to explain to me how the piston speed/force is greater in the middle then the top or bottom of each stroke? AFter all at the top or bottom the piston has to do a complete 180 in momentum.....right? humor me

key word is lateral.

Peak cylinder pressure is after TDC



Take a look at the thread for yourself. There are lots of detailed pics in pages 5 and 6

Kaboom! options for a new block.. and rotating assembly?

Originally Posted by cbspeed3 you just made me want to sell my car

Gah, don't sell your car.

My analysis and digging are not to turn people away or scare you. I wanted to get to the bottom of what is failing in these motors in these odd odd conditions.

[Laloosh]

there no picture that shows if that even lines up with where the greatest lateral forces should be.

[Lex]

Notice how they have learned. In the EcoBoost the fuel spray is guided by the piston crown design up and away from the opposing cylinder wall.

[superskaterxes]

now THAT is the kind of piston correction we need lol

[jwdp54]

Originally Posted by Lex Gah, don't sell your car. My analysis and digging are not to turn people away or scare you. I wanted to get to the bottom of what is failing in these motors in these odd odd conditions.

like i said previously if your really an engineer tell me WHY we are not making power, what's wrong with the motor? not saying i agree with laloosh about the rods but i have grown to believe over the last year that haltech is right FUEL is our problem end of story.

i honestly at this point could care less about the engine blowing as many car manufactures have this problem(modified or stock). it doesn't matter, motors blow because of defect or who's behind the wheel.

stop posting your information(which i agree with laloosh) about nonsense that you don't have facts to back up. bringing this information up just makes people think differently about their car. your facts make up for a very small percentage of cars having this problem because it's not even in the same cylinder. yes it looks like 50% have been cyl 3(which supposedly were from the bsd which is now a myth) the others have been just random.

until your engine blows and YOU diagnose what made it blow, stop making these threads.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes now THAT is the kind of piston correction we need lol

They are likely also running stratified fuel strategy for some of the time which we are not.

Originally Posted by jwdp54 like i said previously if your really an engineer tell me WHY we are not making power, what's wrong with the motor? not saying i agree with laloosh about the rods but i have grown to believe over the last year that haltech is right FUEL is our problem end of story. i honestly at this point could care less about the engine blowing as many car manufactures have this problem(modified or stock). it doesn't matter, motors blow because of defect or who's behind the wheel. stop posting your information(which i agree with laloosh) about nonsense that you don't have facts to back up. bringing this information up just makes people think differently about their car. your facts make up for a very small percentage of cars having this problem because it's not even in the same cylinder. yes it looks like 50% have been cyl 3(which supposedly were from the bsd which is now a myth) the others have been just random. until your engine blows and YOU diagnose what made it blow, stop making these threads.

They call it university where I went to ... but here you go

It finally happened

[speed_3]

Thanks Lex for your time on this issue. Maybe one day well have a MZR Motor fix thread where we can actually say we know what to do to ensure a safe motor build. Eh until then I'll enjoy my youth.

[jwdp54]

Originally Posted by Lex They call it university where I went to ... but here you go It finally happened

these days even if you have a degree it doesn't mean shit.

i don't care about others that have let go(i do but directed more to lex), not bringing info from people that have posted their stories. i want YOU to have a blown motor and tell me why. i bet it won't be the same and you still won't know exactly why. these motors go when they want.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by jwdp54 i don't care about others that have let go(i do but directed more to lex). i want YOU to have a blown motor and tell me why.

I would like that too for the sake of science. For the sake of finances, I'd rather not. However you never know.

[superskaterxes]

hmmm i see loosh has planted his seed inside jwdp54's asshole. should be a ravishing child after that one.......

dude STFU and GTFO of this thread. did u even go to college? lex isent spitting garbage and atleast hes fucking doing something about all these pictures and info people have on their blown motors. hes not some bitch sitting on the sidelines waiting for mazda or some other ninny muggins to do some fucking leg work.

[Laloosh]

if your talking me? Bitch I went to college, geophysics major.
Lex whats even done to your ms3?

[rodrigo]

I think lex is doing his best to help figure out a problem, whether he is on the right track or not remains to be seen. but shitting on him for trying certainly aint gonna get shit done either.

no one on this forum is an expert on this engine, so asking away and chipping at theories is the only way knowledge will be achieved.

so keep diging lex and good efforts man.



ALSO, lets keep personal attacks from this again.... all that happens is mods/haltech clean the shit up and close it. take jabs , sure...but keep it decent please

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by Laloosh if your talking me? Bitch I went to college, geophysics major. Lex whats even done to your ms3?

not you ninny muggins lol

that jwdp biatch

[trickytwelveinch]

This whole bullshit needs to honestly stop because it's nothing more than bullshit. Some of guys are digging way to deep as to why few of these engines (about a fraction of 1%) blew. This forum recently has piled with a shit of bullshit "blown engine threads"

Some of you say that stock engines have blow. Honestly, were you there when it blew, did you see it blow? You take someone's word as 100% solid fact, even though you never met that person in outside these forums. All you're doing is taking someone's word for it and passing it off as fact.

This whole blow engine and has been rammed deep into the ground. Some of you're acting like this is the only engine that blows....

Whole bunch of new users register and post "my engine just blew" threads and half of you people jump on the "I believe you" band wagon... and are all sympathetic about it "I"m sorry; it sucks man, etc" and then bite more into the paranoia and say stupid shit like "that's it I'm done with this car" or "yup, this proves it- it's a bad design" seriously, WTF?

I could just as easily create a new account and make my first thread as an "my engine just blew". I could make myself sound strongly credible by following what others have stated, stay in similar "blown spec" (I also blew half throttle, I swear, I just left the dealer and I was on my way to go into third gear when it happened) of off other threads and 95% of you people would believe me- who says I didn't done so already? : BIG SMILE:

Some of you are looking at a potential fix? What fix is that? You're going to go port injection? Give me a break. I didn't realize this forum is crowded with top of the line physic & mechanical engineers. You read up something up on WIKI and think you're full of experience and knowledge.

You slap on bolt on, run shitty as pre loaded map and don't monitor any of the parameters and you're surprised why the engine has blow? Seriously, someone answer that one?

Is it that hard to accept the FACT that when you operate this engine (or any other engine) beyond it's factory spec/tolerance- it shouldn't blow? Don't give me that EVO bullshit too- each engine is designed differently- accept it.

If there was actually a lot of smart people on here like a lot claim to be then they would know that building an engine prior to bolt on is smarter and the "correct" way to modify an engine as opposed to slapping bolt on.

There were two idiot on here who argued to death with me that monitoring your engine is stupid and useless, YET, when I presented my questions they just avoided them all together.

This engine blows just like any other engine when the damage has already been done. Is that hard to accept? It seems so. If you're not monitoring your a/f ratios, knock, fuel pressure, etc so how do you know if your engine is running the way it should? If you're not monitoring those PID's and you consistently do WOT pulls or just beat on the car- is it so hard to accept the fact that you're doing damage to the engine if you're running lean, knocking and with no proper fuel pressure?

[madvillain]

I personally do not fathom how ANY of you could feel that you have the right to come in here and criticize Lex for what he is saying. Has ANYONE put this much effort towards this specific cause? The man is clearly putting some time and effort into this, collecting samples and doing research.

For those who shit on him for not "applying" his knowledge, what the fuck incentive does he have to dump real money into it? He has clearly stated before that his own speed3 is close to stock, which is how he enjoys it and how he plans to keep it. He's not aiming for big power for himself, so how can you criticize him for not finding big power for your own car? He's doing quite a bit for the community as it is, no matter what your opinion is of whether or not his findings are the route cause, or even in the ballpark of what you feel is correct.

If on the other hand, which this may be going overboard, Lex had a spare engine of his own to experiment with, then maybe we will actually proceed forward in applying any of these findings towards a real, working motor. If he were to sit there, and point out the weak/strong points of the engine, with it in front of him, then attempt to prove his thesis then we would have the right to sit here and decipher for ourselves whether or not he is correct.

As others have said, this is indeed depressing news, but I am not about to put my car up for sale. From this we can perhaps, hopefully, learn about whats going on and how to prevent the bad things from happening. Until then, we dont have the right to completely dismiss any of Lex's opinions. If we discourage him from his efforts, who will we have?

[rodrigo]

yeah man, shit ..look at this now..another blown engine thread.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...-engine-38325/

[wakeboarddude]

Man there are some real haters on this forum now!

[rodrigo]

I agree with 12inch cawk over there though,.... everything revolves around boom this and boom that. it discourages people from buying this great bargain of a car, they dont understand that the issues are mainly due from modifying it.

shit if i was a new member i be looking to off load this pos asap.

truth of the matter is that you guys chasing big horsepower are doing it wrong.....you build from the GROUND UP!!!! not the other way around...... shortblock is the fucken skeleton of the engine without it being stout all u r doing is spinning the wheel of fortune..... so spin away..or do thing s right.

btw...anyone blown an engine with aftermarket rods, piston and crank??? think about it

[jwdp54]

no haters, i've been around longer than you. just tired of threads like this that have no actual fact and base it off of one picture and blown engine.


i don't agree with 90% laloosh says. although i think all of you are brainwashed by lex. btw i'm in college motherfuckers, only reason i made that statement is because with this economy they could give two shits and will lay off no matter what level your at.

as directed, not to bring you into my battle but darksun and lenny have already stated our cars actually have a lower amount of engine failures.

stop worrying on why they blow, since some blow stock and some blow modded. all company's have defects.

[tozfeekum]

Originally Posted by madvillain I personally do not fathom how ANY of you could feel that you have the right to come in here and criticize Lex for what he is saying. Has ANYONE put this much effort towards this specific cause? The man is clearly putting some time and effort into this, collecting samples and doing research. For those who shit on him for not "applying" his knowledge, what the fuck incentive does he have to dump real money into it? He has clearly stated before that his own speed3 is close to stock, which is how he enjoys it and how he plans to keep it. He's not aiming for big power for himself, so how can you criticize him for not finding big power for your own car? He's doing quite a bit for the community as it is, no matter what your opinion is of whether or not his findings are the route cause, or even in the ballpark of what you feel is correct. If on the other hand, which this may be going overboard, Lex had a spare engine of his own to experiment with, then maybe we will actually proceed forward in applying any of these findings towards a real, working motor. If he were to sit there, and point out the weak/strong points of the engine, with it in front of him, then attempt to prove his thesis then we would have the right to sit here and decipher for ourselves whether or not he is correct. As others have said, this is indeed depressing news, but I am not about to put my car up for sale. From this we can perhaps, hopefully, learn about whats going on and how to prevent the bad things from happening. Until then, we dont have the right to completely dismiss any of Lex's opinions. If we discourage him from his efforts, who will we have?

This is ridiculous, Lex is one of the only people trying to find out why these engines blow when modded. This theory is a little disheartening but it is insane that you guys are bashing him. He may not be right, but at least he's trying, more than most of you can say.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by Lenny127 I agree with 12inch cawk over there though,.... everything revolves around boom this and boom that. it discourages people from buying this great bargain of a car, they dont understand that the issues are mainly due from modifying it. shit if i was a new member i be looking to off load this pos asap. truth of the matter is that you guys chasing big horsepower are doing it wrong.....you build from the GROUND UP!!!! not the other way around...... shortblock is the fucken skeleton of the engine without it being stout all u r doing is spinning the wheel of fortune..... so spin away..or do thing s right. btw...anyone blown an engine with aftermarket rods, piston and crank??? think about it

this is only tru to a certain extent. name ONE other popular platform that blows from some retarted design and not pure power. people throw rods on srt's,evos, sti's,mustangs, w/e the fuck u want to name BECAUSE THEY ARE MAKING TOO MUCH POWER.

mazda fucked this one up bad and we shouldent have to suffer with adding minor bolt ons and still blowing. dont give me that waaaa if u want to last keep it stock bs. you know why no one blows stock? BECAUSE NO ONE ON THIS FORUM IS STOCK. no body joins the "hardcore of mazda forum" to keep their car stock. i completely agree if your going for power build the block. but if you wanna keep even fully bolted the only thing that should cause blowing is sheer stress on internals from too much power.

and yes, people have blown with aftermarket internals. mrlilguy's thread is posted on the first page.

btw lenny this wasent directed towards you but mostly all the haters.

[MATT DAMOND]

Originally Posted by Lenny127 no one on this forum is an expert on this engine, so asking away and chipping at theories is the only way knowledge will be achieved.

Lenny, I'm an expert on this engine.

Read my sig, I have 1000hp.

[N|njutsu55]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes this is only tru to a certain extent. name ONE other popular platform that blows from some retarted design and not pure power. people throw rods on srt's,evos, sti's,mustangs, w/e the fuck u want to name BECAUSE THEY ARE MAKING TOO MUCH POWER. mazda fucked this one up bad and we shouldent have to suffer with adding minor bolt ons and still blowing. dont give me that waaaa if u want to last keep it stock bs. you know why no one blows stock? BECAUSE NO ONE ON THIS FORUM IS STOCK. no body joins the "hardcore of mazda forum" to keep their car stock. i completely agree if your going for power build the block. but if you wanna keep even fully bolted the only thing that should cause blowing is sheer stress on internals from too much power. and yes, people have blown with aftermarket internals. mrlilguy's thread is posted on the first page. btw lenny this wasent directed towards you but mostly all the haters.

Dsm's blow on the regular...well not really "blow"......design issues

[NRSpeed]

Not that it matters, but I had seen blow up threads... and I still bought my car.

Shit happens, but you know what, if Lex finds a possible weak link in the engine that is possibly fixable, why not support his digging?

It makes no sense to come to a thread and bash someone. Think of this as a peer review system. He posts images and some ideas. They are nothing more. Sure, disagree, but its one thing to say "God thats a horrible idea, are you retarded" vs "I dont think thats the case, did you consider..."

[spheed3]

Originally Posted by NRSpeed Not that it matters, but I had seen blow up threads... and I still bought my car. Shit happens, but you know what, if Lex finds a possible weak link in the engine that is possibly fixable, why not support his digging? It makes no sense to come to a thread and bash someone. Think of this as a peer review system. He posts images and some ideas. They are nothing more. Sure, disagree, but its one thing to say "God thats a horrible idea, are you retarded" vs "I dont think thats the case, did you consider..."

I appreciate the work Lex puts in. I know I sure as hell wouldn't put as much time into it as he has, especially not for free, casue well I'm a son-of-a-bitch like that. What bothers me, as tricky12 hinted at, is that people just seem to take whatever is posted here as gospel. I think people should lay off the panic button and think about these things critically and rationally.

[djuosnteisn]

I'm gonna go home and try to get blown. bye all.

[rodrigo]

yes..... but you are comparing a fucken ford basically with hondas. NOT the same.

I am a musclecar guy, and u know what amazed me the most about imports?.... that you could run a honda with 500hp and stock crank.... or tranny or w/e.... I come from 100% chevys.....in our world this is unheard of, if the engine comes stock with 170hp .... no way u can make 500 and pretend to keep the stock internals....but hondas etc seemed to be obvioulsy better built than 1970s Iron blocked chevys.

now, think about the ms3.... no one here will argue that when the ms3 came out in 2007 it was THE BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK!!!!!!!! by miles. why do u think this is?? cuz at Mazda they discovered secret materials?? or the got alien technology?? no man.... they put together a lil Ford boosted econobox motor and made it put out some pretty fucken decent power maximizing existing parts probably to its near limits.

now, enter the "mod world"..... if you take an engine that is within hairs of its limit and u add another 100hp to it....it wont take a fucken genius to figure out that damaged engine ratios will increase.

I dont know personally one person who has blown an engine (except dash08 and his had nothing to do with this, it was ...wont mention) but I am willing to bet that the ration of blown modded ms3s vs stock blown ms3s is NOT 1:1.

we can keep searching for the whys but seems to me it is rather obvious that making 350bhp+ in this engine with stock internals increases the odds of you having it let go on you.... what percentage?? who the fuck knows.

oh yeah..one last thing.... remember the first generation of ANY CAR???? they always have bugs.... Lexus, Hyundai etc this is no different.

if you are serious about modding this car to its fullest.. start with the SHORTBLOCK!!!!

and superskaterxes, i dont take anything personally.... so wehther comments are for me or others its all the same. I just wanna see this gloom mood that i see everywhere stop already and for people to question shit, but also be responsible for HOW they do their buildups.... dont go complaining to Mazda unless you are 100% stock and you blew.

Originally Posted by superskaterxes this is only tru to a certain extent. name ONE other popular platform that blows from some retarted design and not pure power. people throw rods on srt's,evos, sti's,mustangs, w/e the fuck u want to name BECAUSE THEY ARE MAKING TOO MUCH POWER. mazda fucked this one up bad and we shouldent have to suffer with adding minor bolt ons and still blowing. dont give me that waaaa if u want to last keep it stock bs. you know why no one blows stock? BECAUSE NO ONE ON THIS FORUM IS STOCK. no body joins the "hardcore of mazda forum" to keep their car stock. i completely agree if your going for power build the block. but if you wanna keep even fully bolted the only thing that should cause blowing is sheer stress on internals from too much power. and yes, people have blown with aftermarket internals. mrlilguy's thread is posted on the first page. btw lenny this wasent directed towards you but mostly all the haters.