What the heck, man?

[sleeper3]

ok new development. I'm now getting a check engine light with a P0300 code. random missfire. Also, I'm attaching two logs. I "updated" the hawk accidentally with a previous version of the software, so I didn't get the readings I wanted, but whatever. Any thoughts? I'm going to see if I can re-update the software back to what it was and do it again.

stutter2.bmp
stutter1.bmp

[aaronc7]

lol the parameters you logged really give us NO information.

for fuel pressure, go to fuel->then High pressure fuel pressure, or DI Fuel pressure, something like that. the readouts should be in the 1600-1800 range

for Boost, go to Air->Boost/vac

Throttle is fine

for knock, go to Mazda PIDs->spark->Knock retard.

random misfire hmm..check your spark plugs lately?

[sleeper3]

lol the software version I had on the dashhawk didn't have any of those options. it was horrible. I should be good to go now though. I have the latest software on my computer and on the dashhawk. I'm setting up the logging right now, and I'll go log it and be back with graphs by 1 or 2 pm est.

and no I haven't checked my plugs ever. I am planning on doing that soon though. Thank goodness for the front mount

[gsrtype1]

lol

[08_ms3_gt]

Originally Posted by sleeper3 lol the software version I had on the dashhawk didn't have any of those options. it was horrible. I should be good to go now though. I have the latest software on my computer and on the dashhawk. I'm setting up the logging right now, and I'll go log it and be back with graphs by 1 or 2 pm est. and no I haven't checked my plugs ever. I am planning on doing that soon though. Thank goodness for the front mount

dude check your plugs! a misfire code should be a big hint that it's likely to be either plugs or coils, and, since it isn't a VW 1.8T engine, it's prolly not a coil problem...

my experience:
1) installed AP
2) experienced cut/stutter around 5k RPM's in 4th and 5th gears
3) installed new plugs, one step colder
4) NO MORE CUT.

you might also want to check your boost clamps.

[gsrtype1]

Yeah check your hose clamps and your plugs. Also log "fuel pressure- direct injection", spark knock retard etc. Basically what Arron said.

[sleeper3]

ok I have talked with someone I trust more than anyone when it comes to cars and I've decided to put new plugs in. I probably fouled them when I was at the track on Friday. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that this works. I wanted to go colder, and he told me I should go 1 step hotter, so I've decided to just stick with the factory spec ones.

I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

[aaronc7]

Originally Posted by sleeper3 ok I have talked with someone I trust more than anyone when it comes to cars and I've decided to put new plugs in. I probably fouled them when I was at the track on Friday. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that this works. I wanted to go colder, and he told me I should go 1 step hotter, so I've decided to just stick with the factory spec ones. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

At your power level I would recommend step colder. I had my stock plugs sent to Cobb to be examined, and they looked at them in depth and said step colder would probably be a good idea (they saw some boiling on the plugs or w/e). At that time I had basically just been running Intake/TBE for quite awhile, so I wasn't even pushing crazy power levels or boost levels or anything. Step colder WILL foul faster, but it should run better and smoother

[Crossbow]

That's the first time I've ever heard anyone recommend a step hotter plug...most of the car's problems are resolved with a 1 or 2 step colder plug (depending on power output).

Then of course, some of us have screwed up factory gapping on our plugs...so any replacement plug would help that!

[08_ms3_gt]

Originally Posted by sleeper3 ok I have talked with someone I trust more than anyone when it comes to cars and I've decided to put new plugs in. I probably fouled them when I was at the track on Friday. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that this works. I wanted to go colder, and he told me I should go 1 step hotter, so I've decided to just stick with the factory spec ones. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

hmmmm... what exactly does your guy know? what's his 'car' background? because i adamantly disagree with ANYONE EVER going a step hotter than stock plugs on a modified turbo car.

VW 1.8T gurus recommend step colder plugs when getting chipped.
COBB recommends step colder plugs when installing an AP.

higher boost pressures decrease the flash point of gasoline. which means that the gas explodes at lower temperatures. thus hotter plugs will exaggerate the problem and you'd probably have MORE stuttering and knock.

instead of listening to your guy, listen to us! i had the exact same problem and solved it with step-colder plugs. aaron had his analyzed with Cobb and got the same recommendation.

if you don't believe what i'm saying, i could ask my car guy. he owns a noble (aka 500hp twin turbo beast) and other toys, one son owns a stg3+ audi s4, and the other son owns a stg3+ subaru wrx. and he tracks his car(s) on a regular basis. if he recommends step hotter plugs i'll pull a fight club and beat the shit out of myself.

[sleeper3]

lol you guys crack me up. I don't care what any of you say, I'd still trust this guy over any of you. Anyway, I went to Discount and picked up some spark plugs and a fake ram air scoop for my hood. I put everything on my car and the problem is fixed, so it was either the plugs, or lack of fake air to the motor.

[sleeper3]

ps

these are the old plugs:


This is the graph of the condition:


This is a graph of my car working properly:


This is what we think happened:
I ran with octane booster on Friday night, which probably raised the octane of teh gas to the point where it did not all burn which fouled the plug. This is why he recommended that I run a hotter plug. With a hotter plug, you get a more complete burn, but yes, also, you get more heat. I told him that was probably not a good idea in this car, so we decided on the same heat. I went to discount and got some cheap-o plugs for a test, and low and behold, problem solved. I also found out that you can mess with the heat of a plug by how much of a gap there is. my new plugs are slightly overgapped (by around .05) which I am hoping will help the burn, and needless to say, I'll be monitoring my temps like a hawk. Thanks for your help everyone, and I'll be back soon with an update I am sure.

[sleeper3]

also, I hate the throttle control (or lack thereof) that this car has.

[Boonestafa]

i'm pretty sure that was a joke.. but i acctually groaned out loud.. so i had to hit the button!

[sleeper3]

Sometimes, I am aiming for a groan, so I'm not sure if it's a bad thing!

[Unoriginalusername]

Originally Posted by sleeper3 Sometimes, I am aiming for a groan, so I'm not sure if it's a bad thing!

ah man, i thought you actually copied my hood scoop idea for realz

[Boonestafa]

Fair Enough! my wife is always groaning at me.. i guess my humore tends toward the retarded.

[sleeper3]

as does your spelling!



on second thought, I read it the way you spelled it and it sounds like I'm saying humor with an Italian accent! yay!

[sleeper3]

Originally Posted by Unoriginalusername ah man, i thought you actually copied my hood scoop idea for realz

all you, bud!

[sleeper3]

by the way, does it seem like I am running a tad lean, or is 14.0 AFR pretty normal for these cars?

[Boonestafa]

Originally Posted by sleeper3 as does your spelling! on second thought, I read it the way you spelled it and it sounds like I'm saying humor with an Italian accent! yay!

FUCK! you know.. i'm good at lots of things.. but spelling has never been one of them /shrug/

[phantom6294]

14:1 AFR while under full boost seems crazy lean.

Also, in what gear was that first good log? I see positive pressure (boost) at RPMs below 2000. Talk about loading up the engine!

[08_ms3_gt]

Originally Posted by phantom6294 14:1 AFR while under full boost seems crazy lean. Also, in what gear was that first good log? I see positive pressure (boost) at RPMs below 2000. Talk about loading up the engine!

x2 AFR's WAY too high
x2 WOT at low RPM's is not recommended for these cars

new logs w/ KR included would be worthwhile. with those kind of AFR's i'm guessing you've got some knock, if not pinging. aka do that for awhile and kaboom...

[aviator79]

Originally Posted by sleeper3 lol so it doesn't have anything to do with the intercooler at this point. The alcohol evaporating has a far more pronounced effect on the air temp than an intercooler could.

Ah evaporational cooling...I knew my meteorology degree would come in handy one day.

[sleeper3]

I watch knock retard from time to time, and nothing. I mean 0.0

Maybe my o2 sensor is jacked. I need to get a wideband up in hurr.

[aaronc7]

I also wouldn't run those cheapo plugs for longer than u have too. they are platinum im guessing?? If so platinum ones are not recommended for boosted applications at all. Copper or iridium....and no one makes copper ones so that kinda limits it to iridium

[phillyb]

Originally Posted by sleeper3 by the way, does it seem like I am running a tad lean, or is 14.0 AFR pretty normal for these cars?

ask your car guy who told you to go step hotter.
don't ask any of us, we're just idiots that you can't trust.
does 14:1 sound lean or ok to your car guru?

[martyxattack]

Originally Posted by Unoriginalusername then you installed it wrong... its a pita, but when done properly it fits just fine

yea it must be me cause i know no ones ever had a problem with a cobb product.

[phillyb]

i know lenny's fmic piping got dented by the frame and a bit fucked up from his cai as well. that cobb piping hits shit, especially when you're driving.

[sleeper3]

I got a replacement pipe for the damaged one I received, so I will give everything the once over when I have it all taken apart to switch the pipes out.

[phillyb]

nice, now get some step hotter plugs and all of your problems will disappear. report back

[sleeper3]

Now I see why Cobb said this board was full of a bunch of pricks.

[Cosmic3MPS]

Originally Posted by Unoriginalusername meth doesn't gain anything on the dyno... a local guy dyno'd less running meth than a similarly modded car without. reliability is a different story, but you are not going to gain a second at the track or any hp at the dyno with meth.

Yes but, it will allow you to advance your timing and gain power which will show on a dyno and at the track

[sleeper3]

Originally Posted by Cosmic3MPS Yes but, it will allow you to advance your timing and gain power which will show on a dyno and at the track

and up the boost!

[sleeper3]

Originally Posted by 08_ms3_gt x2 AFR's WAY too high x2 WOT at low RPM's is not recommended for these cars new logs w/ KR included would be worthwhile. with those kind of AFR's i'm guessing you've got some knock, if not pinging. aka do that for awhile and kaboom...

is 65% WOT?

[08_ms3_gt]

Originally Posted by sleeper3 is 65% WOT?

as in absolute throttle position per your log?

do you have a tune/AP? ABSOLUTE throttle position, unless i'm mistaken, is the amount that the throttle plate is opened. RELATIVE throttle position would be how far you have the pedal down. IIRC absolute maxes out at 90 (as in 90 degrees) yet, if you're not tuned, it doesn't even come close to that. hence why there's the 'full throttle flash'.

i can't be certain, but 65% or 70% on your second run in the 'car working properly' log sounds like WOT to me. hitting a peak 16 or 18PSI doesn't really happen at partial throttle. i'll concede that you didn't necessarily have the pedal all the way down, but i'm guessing you were close to it. and given those boost levels, your AFR's are higher than what i'd prefer. my car runs an AFR in the 11's at WOT.

so, as i said, what i've read on these forums indicates that 1) your AFR's are unsafe and 2) loading up the car at those low of RPM's is not favorable b/c there's a transition from open to closed loop fueling that occurs around 3-4k RPM's on the fueling, which can cause lean fuel conditions.

can you do another log but include knock retard? on the DH it's in the Mazda-specific stuff.

i'm not trying to criticize you, i'm just trying to help. these cars have shortcomings. i've never driven a car before the MS3 where it was recommended to wait until 3.5k RPM's or so to gun it.

[phantom6294]

Originally Posted by sleeper3 is 65% WOT?

It is in this car... due to the electronic throttle, it is rarely "Wide Open." So, 65% is about as close to WOT as we get. WOT by default would generally correspond to foot to the floor. That aside, hitting any significant boost at very low RPMs is generally considered bad; even moreso in higher gears.

Originally Posted by 08_ms3_gt 2) loading up the car at those low of RPM's is not favorable b/c there's a transition from open to closed loop fueling that occurs around 3-4k RPM's on the fueling, which can cause lean fuel conditions.

Wrong. The car goes from Closed Loop to Open Loop when you are flooring it. Further, the transition from Closed Loop to Open Loop is nothing magical. All it means is that the ECU begins to ignore the O2 Sensor for fueling adjustments. If you car is showing positive short term fuel trims in Closed Loop prior to the transition, this may cause the engine to run lean, but there is nothing about the transition, in and of itself, that can cause the car to run lean. The ECU appears to maintain positive long term fuel trims into Open Loop (and seems to ignore negative long term fuel trims). So, if you're running negative fuel trims (both long and short term), then more than likely, you will run much richer at the transition from Closed to Open Loop; regardless of the Commanded AFR. Further, the transition is NOT entirely dependent upon RPM and does not always happen at the same RPM. It is based on Load and RPM. Generally though, it has been my experience that at "WOT" it tends happens in the upper 3k RPM range.

[sleeper3]

See, this is why I have a hard time believing anything on these forums. Everyone is peddling what they think is true as absolute fact. Hard to figure out what in fact is true and what is BS. Anyway, I can do another log and include knock retard. I've been watching it and I never see it do anything. Also, how accurate do you think the factory O2 sensor is? I mean, I'm 3 ticks higher than people, and yet, no problems? Seems fishy to me. I think my next move will be for a downpipe, wide band 02 and exhaust gas temp sensors... that way I can more closely and accurately monitor this stuff.

[aaronc7]

O2 sensor should be pretty accurate..I mean it's an important part of the car's ECU control system and all.

Your car is probably running fine... it looks like you're only WOT for very short times in those logs... if you want to verify all is good get a solid 3k-6XXX RPM pull in 3rd or 4th gear. 4th would be even better but then you also have to get up to around 100 mph, so really whatever is more convenient.

[sleeper3]

yeah those are all 2nd gear minipulls. I was just driving around downtown trying to make it stutter. I will get a good 4th gear pull and post the log when I get a chance. I think I have some highway driving to do after work, so I will post it up tomorrow. same parameters?