Who Has A Built Motor? Need Impressions

[Haltech]

Ok, im looking at doing the motor in my car, so im looking for some information:

Who HAS a finished, complete, built motor and has been driving it? its been awfully quiet in regards to these people...

1) What pistons are you using?
2) Compression ratio?
3) noticeable piston slap at idle?
4) Balanced & Blue Printed?
5) Port Match To Head?
6) P/P 5 angle on the heads?

Lets hear it. Thanks

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Haltech Ok, im looking at doing the motor in my car, so im looking for some information: Who HAS a finished, complete, built motor and has been driving it? its been awfully quiet in regards to these people... 1) What pistons are you using? 2) Compression ratio? 3) noticeable piston slap at idle? 4) Balanced & Blue Printed? 5) Port Match To Head? 6) P/P 5 angle on the heads? Lets hear it. Thanks

good thread topic. ive been annoyed that all the supposed guys with built motors seem to "invisible" on the boards. i feel like im the first guy whos done it, in that i have no comparisons to mine. Actually its bull that weve heard nothing.... i plan on crazy impressions, logs, dynos, etc. this is pretty big stuff, imo.

Anyhow..... heres my answers for now.

1. forged arias
2. 9.5:1 stock
3. yeah... alot, sounds badass.
4. ken? zach?..
5. no
6. no

i'll have more impressions in a week.

[Laloosh]

thats one thing i find very odd, all these built motors and no1 is around...why?

[Haltech]

Unknown, i would like to know this myself... However, whats do you mean you have piston slap Randy?

How audible is it? Anyone else running Arias pistons, showing piston slap?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Haltech Unknown, i would like to know this myself... However, whats do you mean you have piston slap Randy? How audible is it? Anyone else running Arias pistons, showing piston slap?

forged piston slap.... at least thats what we call it. clean, hollow clicking kind of what i always heard before but just louder. worse at cold startup, gets better as it warms, but always distinctly there.

car runs and reacts fine. it seems like its gonna make power for the very little weve experimented. no codes. no strange vibes. consistent idle to what it was before the buid.

were getting alot of knock retard on the DH, but its not under load, and even comes when we're freereving.... so it aint detonation. we figure that the sensor is too "sensitive", but that isnt uncommon on noiser built motors. our cars may even be more prone considering the knock we see stock. we also pulled the baffler insulation thing behind the intake manifold so that could be contributing to the noise as well.

when it comes time to tune, were thinking were gonna have to mess around with the stock knock sensor so timing doesnt get pulled too badly.

does that answer it?

[Haltech]

yes, that it does. First time ive heard about the piston slap being noticeable on a built engine. MrLilguy's motor i dont think reported this. So im curious if the other built motors running these pistons are getting the piston slap too. From my domestic roots, CP pistons were known for this and we stayed away from them.

[Laloosh]

kev, i would wait 3 days before ordering stuff.....

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Haltech yes, that it does. First time ive heard about the piston slap being noticeable on a built engine. MrLilguy's motor i dont think reported this. So im curious if the other built motors running these pistons are getting the piston slap too. From my domestic roots, CP pistons were known for this and we stayed away from them.

jon is the ultimate mia. ken said jons had alot of noise too. thats why we havent been too concerned. but its not like hes the only guy with a built engine who has decided not ever to post again..lol its ridiculous. i feel like im completely on my own in this regard.

lol.... it wont be the first time.

[crazyitalian041]

eh i havent been driving it yet haltech but i just wanted to chime in..

1) What pistons are you using? CP
2) Compression ratio? 9.5:1
3) noticeable piston slap at idle? No clue
4) Balanced & Blue Printed? Yes
5) Port Match To Head? Yes
6) P/P 5 angle on the heads? Yes.

I will let you know asap about that slap.

[bf360]

Originally Posted by crazyitalian041 eh i havent been driving it yet haltech but i just wanted to chime in.. 1) What pistons are you using? CP 2) Compression ratio? 9.5:1 3) noticeable piston slap at idle? No clue 4) Balanced & Blue Printed? Yes 5) Port Match To Head? Yes 6) P/P 5 angle on the heads? Yes. I will let you know asap about that slap.

very nice, don't the right way, can't wait to see what you put down wit p and p head, build done the right way

[mdogg]

Originally Posted by Laloosh kev, i would wait 3 days before ordering stuff.....

what happens in 3 days? just curious....

[Laloosh]

i guess you'll have to wait and see lol

[nighthawk358]

Originally Posted by Laloosh i guess you'll have to wait and see lol

damn tease lol

[MazdaMan13]

damn i dont like waiting lol

[J-villa]

I hate waiting.

[phailerider]

are we talking about built motors, or are we playing secret agent man. geez.

whos got a goddam built motor out there?

[crazyitalian041]

Originally Posted by bf360 very nice, don't the right way, can't wait to see what you put down wit p and p head, build done the right way

Yup, we will have to see, p3 is doing my build. The blocks getting machined as we speak.

[Laloosh]

no, i just wanted to throw out the fact that parts are going to be designed for this engine, not just omg look it works type stuff we have out right now.

[Haltech]

Well as Chris has pointed out, its very important that a part is designed to work with the engine from the get-go, instead of an after thought.

I know if i had a true 10 committed persons, i would have Crower Rods out to those guys in 7 weeks... I could than get some coated, custom pistons made for the car as well, than start on cams.

As i see it, very few people are committed to this platform, which makes these types of developments, slow.

Weve seen serveral motors pop and we have like, 2 or 3 active posters in the middle of their build or finally complete. There has got to be more!

Crazy, thanks for your info.

[crazyitalian041]

np, ill have way more in the coming weeks that i will share.

[bf360]

Originally Posted by Haltech Well as Chris has pointed out, its very important that a part is designed to work with the engine from the get-go, instead of an after thought. I know if i had a true 10 committed persons, i would have Crower Rods out to those guys in 7 weeks... I could than get some coated, custom pistons made for the car as well, than start on cams. As i see it, very few people are committed to this platform, which makes these types of developments, slow. Weve seen serveral motors pop and we have like, 2 or 3 active posters in the middle of their build or finally complete. There has got to be more! Crazy, thanks for your info.

i would be down for custom parts like that, but not right now, next year i will be

[mexicant]

What's ur take on this car and it's very long ass stroke. How far will it rev out ?

[whoosh@Realtune]

Originally Posted by mdogg what happens in 3 days? just curious....

something I have been working on for everyone that wants rods and pistons manufactured to exact OEM specs and are rated to 1200HP

[Haltech]

Aside from Manley rods Whoosh, what pistons?

[whoosh@Realtune]

Originally Posted by Haltech Aside from Manley rods Whoosh, what pistons?

dropped the Manley project
this is all new....

I'll explain everything in my post later today
basically this is a hardcore set up
I'm going to use this set up for my personal build over the winter regardless of how many people have interest and want them but I'm going to offer the combo up front as it saves everyone tons of dough to get 10 sets committed up front as you know in your dealings with Crower.

[ms3guy22]

What do you mean your all alone? I think john completely lost his interest in the car after his turbo went on him and his car was broken into. My motor is built but not in my car heres the thead:
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...go-forged.html

[whoosh@Realtune]

Originally Posted by ms3guy22 What do you mean your all alone? I think john completely lost his interest in the car after his turbo went on him and his car was broken into. My motor is built but not in my car heres the thead: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...go-forged.html

I think Randy is alone meaning his car is built & running + will actually post true experiences both good and bad while getting the car where he wants it....
everyone else with built or forged components either doesn't post true feedback or is absent from the forums....

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by whoosh I think Randy is alone meaning his car is built & running + will actually post true experiences both good and bad while getting the car where he wants it.... everyone else with built or forged components either doesn't post true feedback or is absent from the forums....

Or just plain pussed out and walked away...

[oskinosmee]

Originally Posted by whoosh something I have been working on for everyone that wants rods and pistons manufactured to exact OEM specs and are rated to 1200HP

Sounds like Fun

[andre0121]

some of the goodies came in today






still waitin on some other things hopefully xmas time it gets built

[phailerider]

awesome... enjoyed the pics, since i never got to see mine.... let alone sleep with it, like it appears your planning to do

[andre0121]

lol thanx randy im actually pissed cuz now i wanna see wat whoosh is bringin to the market w/e....

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by andre0121 lol thanx randy im actually pissed cuz now i wanna see wat whoosh is bringin to the market w/e....

meh... theres always next year if whooshs is something better. probably billet or something.

what compression did you choose?

[Laloosh]

Whoosh's hardwork WILL blow away what is current available. He wont be the only one going his route, i will follow, so there will be at least 2 lol
Randy whats the update on the beast...is she ready to do a full boost run for us? Its like we're all waiting for the main attraction here. The lol pos fights are done, now comes the main event baby.

[xcoldricex]

glad there's going to be some development in this! i'm going to wait and see what comes out before i decide to jump in and LARGE sum of $ into building an engine - only to see something better come out right after.

Hal, is this the reason you aren't built yet?

[redrocketz]

Originally Posted by Haltech Well as Chris has pointed out, its very important that a part is designed to work with the engine from the get-go, instead of an after thought. I know if i had a true 10 committed persons, i would have Crower Rods out to those guys in 7 weeks... I could than get some coated, custom pistons made for the car as well, than start on cams.

Our pistons and rods were designed for the engine not an OMG they work scenario. And Cams are already made just waiting to be installed. I won't say more for obvious reasons until we can lock something down like with the Flywheels we want exclusivity.

[Lex]

I've built my escort motor and no piston slap to speak of warm or cold. Piston slap shouldn't be there if the pistons are designed for the motor.

[CaptainKRM]

whoever said the piston was designed as an afterthought? how do you think CP or Arias had the pistons made? and frankly, piston slap is common on a wide variety of builds, brands of internal and engine make.

piston slap has alot more to do with material than it does with tolerances. alot of things need to be clarified before the notion that there is some kind of magic tricks to make a forged engine on any car, much less this one, work. randy himself has done alot of research on the topic in the past few days.

factory pistons are cast, forged pistons are not. they are going to expand differently than what you will see from a cast piston. inherently, especially when a motor is cold, you are going to get more piston noise from a forged engine than you will from a stock engine. the noise will dampen and quiet to some degree when a forged engine reaches high operating temp. let us also keep in mind that the factory pistons have a coating on the skirts which a forged piston inherently does not. there are companies who will coat the skirts in a manner close to stock, such as Supertech does with a 2.3 Mazda3 / Focus piston, however the piston is almost always as noisy as a piston without the coating. You are still subject to the properties of a forged aluminum piston VS a cast one. Science is science in that regard.

Any of amount searching on other car forums or Google for that matter will yield comments about "dieseling" or noise or tolerances. Tolerances are crucial here folks. If you make the tolerances too tight to avoid what you would consider excess piston slap, you run the risk that when the piston expands, the rings bind up and seize or snap within the cylinder wall. Not a quality scenario. There are quite a few advocates and arguments for wide and generous tolerances, because the worst that comes from those - honestly - is oil blow by, excessive fuel consumption, oil consumption. None of which has been reported in any of the DISI engines we've assembled since we've had the parts. Depending on the block used and piston used, some engines will be noisier than others.

A consideration which would not only eliminate this problem but make more than a few people thrilled per se is a forged ROD that works with the CAST OEM piston. shouldn't be too hard to make. the only issue i forsee here is that while you are upgrading the rod, you are now assuming that the factory piston is worthy of withstanding whatever abuse is thrown at it. This is something that Hiboost used to play with as well, they would make "lower compression" pistons by shaving the tops off of OEM pistons.

EDIT: most of the people who have our forged engines are mazdaspeed6 owners who post either on 6club or 24/7, and a few of them don't even post at all. the first one we sold went into a bone stock car just because the guy wanted piece of mind when his supposedly stock car popped. its not as though everyone cross-posts on every forum.

[Lex]

That is good information and correct - piston slap is a function of how a forged piston expands versus a cast piece. That being said, once warm, there should be no audible "slap"

[phailerider]

there is an audible slap in our stock motors. its even worse in my vw. ive been asked if my vw is a "diesel" 5 times since ive had it. i think the clicking we hear is more indicative of DISI than it is of a "problem".

i can tell differences in the sound of my motor just based on the load my ac puts on it. it was there before, its just louder now. and it doesnt go completely away when its warm either.

im excited for the challenge ive got here, and i will report all findings as get them. regular compression checks, and regular visual inspection of the cylinder walls will shed some light.

right now with close to 1000 miles.... the car is burning no oil, and is getting 28 miles to the gallon in mixed driving. it makes power, and has loud, always audible "piston slap".

im not worried. im excited to monitor it.

only real issue were really having is that the noise easily triggers "knock"... even at freerev in idle...lol we can make "knock" anywhere, with little to no load whatsoever. we are planning to work around our ridiculously sensitive knock sensor by either...

bypassing it completely and tuning off a/f and a desensitized knock light.
or
setting up a piggyback to desensitize it.
or
fucking ramming boost, NOS, and meth up the engines ass and not worrying about that shit at all because it is not my dd anymore...

it is my racecar.

anyhow.... thats where we are. I will have posted dynos in less than one week.