Why the BSD saves our Motors

[ChrisK]

K20a3 and all the K24s have balance shafts for Honda. It's built in to the oil pump assembly. But the K20a2 doesn't have the BS.

And I think that the H23 and some of the F series motors had belt driven BSs in them as well.

None of the B-series or D-series had them that I know of.

[Frequentflyer]

Yes, the K20 in my '05 RSX Type S was smooth as butta all the way to the 8,600 RPM redline (w/reflash). If you were deaf and weren't looking at the tach, you would never know you were at 8k.

[HotHatchRacer20]

what about the volvo 5 cyl like in the S60R's and V70R's making 300 hp stock and those motors have no balance shaft, and no vibes either at idle, and are buillit proof.

[Erich]

Originally Posted by ElBartoRex so wouldn't the reverse also be true? If the shaft was balanced without a 15lb weight and then they added one, it would be way off balance at 6000rpms again. the fact the neither situation seems to be the case it points to it not really mattering weather its on there or not.

The BS isn't a part of the balanced rotating assembly. More like a bearing (though that isn't accurate either) as a static single point force. The 17lb weight isn't rotating around the crank, only being driven by it. Kind of like the cams by the timing chain.

[Erich]

Originally Posted by Frequentflyer The theory of the BS assembly causing motors to pop is bullshit, UNLESS of course someone can prove that is is starving the rod bearings of oil. I also think it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too soon to start singing, "Ding dong, the witch is dead!" considering there are very, very few people out there running the BSD mod on this car. I'm willing to bet the number is under 50 people. Certainly not the kind of number I'd bet the life of my motor on.

Oil starvation isn't the theory, but rather:

Originally Posted by ChrisK That and if these cars are failing because of crank walk (thrust baring), like others have stated in other threads, then the BS might be getting in a bind when the crank tries to walk, perhaps causing the engine to blow sooner than later. Of course this is all speculation right now.

[masskaos]

Originally Posted by palerider tizi went 8 months with 347whp, reworked stock turbo and meth. he did the bsd, and blew 2 days later. just fyi....

um... did he try to cut out the ring gear? because that is SCARY!

[socks]

Originally Posted by subparpunk03 So the balance shafts on the 944 are on a timing belt and not keyed to the crank? Can you elaborate on why you have to rebuild the engine every few years if you DO delete the balance shaft?

balance shaft on a 1.8T audi/vw motor are on a pully as well. its called the "intermediate shaft" and must be removed fora strokin'

[the_caruch]

on my 2000 pontiac grandprix i had my balance shaft gear removed when i put in a big cam. (but left the shaft in)

no adverse effects, maybe a tad more vibes at idle. but at that point...having a cam i didn't feel a difference as the car was loud and shaking enough already.

i know it's a completely different engine, but just my experience.

the gears on the balance shaft are cut at an angle. it has to carry some kind of axial load on the crank during accel and decel. something to think about

the gear (while small in the grand prix) also had curved/angle cut gear teeth

[clos561]

Originally Posted by Speed3FTW vibes.

you think you felt vibes in this car? slap on a delrin trz mm

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes can someone name ONE disadvantage of doing the BSD? advantages: more oil cooler oil 17lbs lighter faster revs more HP

I am actually throwing mine back in on my next oil change, minus the gears. An extra 10lb of iron keeping the block straight ftw.

Cooler oil, can be deleted from that list as well, there is no detectable oil temp difference.
I also noticed no faster revs.
I also noticed no additional hp.
Anything over 4.5qt of oil is useless except for extended oil changes, its just an additional qt on oil to get all over the crank.

Originally Posted by Lex The BS does not add wear to the engine. The theory was that it locks up. Now you can throw that out the window in this case.

Ive never heard anywhere of a BS locking up, and after taking mine apart, I am not sure I would believe it anyway.

Originally Posted by masskaos the gears on the balance shaft are cut at an angle. it has to carry some kind of axial load on the crank during accel and decel. something to think about.

True but its alot less than pushing the clutch pedal down to shift, and no one talks about that.

Originally Posted by ChrisK That and if these cars are failing because of crank walk (thrust baring), like others have stated in other threads, then the BS might be getting in a bind when the crank tries to walk, perhaps causing the engine to blow sooner than later. Of course this is all speculation right now.

The crank *should* be able to move freely without affecting the BS assembly drive gear, the gear teeth dont have to be lined up at all.

Also one thing I havent really thought about, the only thread I have ever seen where anyone spoke of metal in their oil or filter was Randy's thread. If people are wearing these engines out enough that crank walk is a problem then there should logicly be metal somewhere, because it doesnt just dissappear.

Or maybe no one looks at their oil or filter like I do =P

[Bishounen0205]

Originally Posted by subparpunk03 Do they remove the balance shafts on any other big power 4 cylinder engines? (with the exception of boxer engines since they don't have 'em) I mean, the SRT-4 guys pull 'em off right? Do the Evo guys pull 'em off? Do the 944 turbo guys pull 'em off? Seems to me like its not a cure all or an explanation for why we're blowing... but it certainly can't hurt. And for $20, I'll do the damn thing.

i dont know if you consider them big power engines, but alot of the se-r guys remove their balance shafts. (boosting at 8lbs they make 300+whp, thats why i say they have a big power engine). all i've read about doing the bsd is positive, either here or on the spec v forums.

[gdg]

06speed6,

Can you elaborate on this comment for me please,

"Anything over 4.5qt of oil is useless except for extended oil changes, its just an additional qt on oil to get all over the crank."



Thanks,
-GG

[dbrier]

Not that it matters for this conversation, but the gears are helical cut to reduce noise. Straight cut gears are very loud.

[Fobio]

Considering that you need to remove the BS assembly to install a oilpan baffle/windage tray, I would deem the extra oil useful for tracking on a road course where your oil is sloshing around and the baffle/tray keeps your oil lines fed.

[subparpunk03]

Originally Posted by Bishounen0205 i dont know if you consider them big power engines, but alot of the se-r guys remove their balance shafts. (boosting at 8lbs they make 300+whp, thats why i say they have a big power engine). all i've read about doing the bsd is positive, either here or on the spec v forums.

By big power I meant anyone pushing the engine well beyond its intended output... doubling the output from an engine qualifies as big power in my book

[06Speed6]

You can technically probably run our engine safely on 1qt of oil, maybe even less. The reason we have more than that is to keep the oil pickup submerged. As you are driving your car, the oil is sloshing around all over the crankcase and it is not necessarily is the bottom of the pan.

As long as you are keeping the oil pickup submerged, anything past that is pure gravy. After the BSD, our cars probably have on the order of 7qts of oil, thats about what big turbo diesel trucks run, and almost 1qt of that 7 is sitting in their oil filter. So technically, after doing the BS delete, we have more oil sitting in our pan than a turbo diesel truck does.

If you are tracking your car, you shouldnt be running the factory oil pan anyway.

[subparpunk03]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 If you are tracking your car, you shouldnt be running the factory oil pan anyway.

I bet a large sum of money that the cosworth dry-sump kit will fit... or come damn close.

Also, if I use a big spin on filter I am able to put in almost 8 bloody quarts of oil. It worked out to be like 7.8 quarts or something ridiculous like that.

[06Speed6]

Lol 8qts of oil.

Dry sumps arent really streetable unless you convert to the corvette system which apparently is DD material. A good wet sump pan with a good baffle system is all the vast majority of people will ever need.

[subparpunk03]

So I'm curious what you think of the F2 style baffle.

[TRU-BOOST]

Wow tizi huh... I habent seen this anywhere. If he blew 2 days later, there was some kind of problem. I dont think the BSD mod is to blame, unless it was done improperly or something. What kit did he use? It could be something stupid like he plugged the wrong hole. There are 2 holes right next to each other, one is just a bolt hole the other is the oil feed to the BS. Or possibly his plug or bolt came out. Either situation would cause a serious loss in oil pressure that could be devastating. Just my thoughts. I am a firm believer in the BSD mod and just dont think it caused the failure.

[Dabears2k]

I just want to update on my BSD. I did the F2 kit and couldn't be happier. The vibs are barely noticeable. Far less than when I did a motor mount.

The biggest upside for me is that I find it much easier to match the revs for the 1-2 shift. I feel that my 1-2 is much smoother now.