Why install a OCC when you can vent the Crankcase to the ground?

[jamesthebikeguy]

So Hopefully some one can shed some light on why people don't just vent the crank case to the ground.

Here is my plan:

1st Remove the hose + PCV from the crank case and the intake tract.

2nd re-use the stock PCV and install the PCV to the crank case and run a hose venting directly to the ground.

3rd Plug the hole in the intake

What this would accomplish:
This would allow the gasses + oil to be vacated from the crank case under vacuums and still allow for no boost leaks. Would also keep you from having to check the OCC for oil and draining it.

Only Downsides:
Technically not legal because the gasses would pollute the atmosphere

Let me know if this is an idea no one has thought of or if it is flawed, as i plan to do this next week

[SSinstaller]

In the OEM setup vacume in the IM will pull air from the crankcase to vent at idle and cruise, and the vacume in the intake vents the crankcase pressure at WOT. The way you want to set it up you would have no vacume acting on the pcv so you wouldn't vent much if any at idle or cruise...

[jamesthebikeguy]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller If I'm understanding you correctly, you would create vacume in the crankcase at WOT and that would not be a good thing...

How would that happen?

I am basically eliminating only one thing, the return to the intake track.

There isn't a way i could be creating vacuum.

[jamesthebikeguy]

Well it wouldn't not be using vacuum to vent, however the One way PCV valve would be open anytime not spent in boost.

Thus allowing for the gasses in the crank case to vent as nessicary.


Am i wrong?

[Qluber]

you sir are asking for MAJOR OIL CONSUMPTION..

[SSinstaller]

Maybe I misunderstood.

The stock setup runs like this Intake Manifold>PVC>CRANKCASE>HEAD>INTAKE. What are you wanting to remove..

When the motor is operating in vacume it flows in towards the IM, when it's in boost is flows towards intake.

[jamesthebikeguy]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller Maybe I misunderstood. The stock setup runs like this Intake Manifold>PVC>CRANKCASE>HEAD>INTAKE. What are you wanting to remove.. When the motor is operating in vacume it flows in towards the IM, when it's in boost is flows towards intake.

I thought the Crank case to Intake was a seprate line than the Head to intake


I just want to dump the crankcase

And leave the head to intake alone.

Anyone have a Diagram how the PCV system works on out car

[spheed3]

I thought this was another hole-in-the-block-thread...sorry for the uninformative post..move along...

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by jamesthebikeguy I thought the Crank case to Intake was a seprate line than the Head to intake I just want to dump the crankcase And leave the head to intake alone. Anyone have a Diagram how the PCV system works on out car

The intake manifold is connected to the crancase throught the pcv valve, head is connected to the intake via the port on the valve cover. There is no line from the crancase to the intake.

[jamesthebikeguy]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller The intake manifold is connected to the crancase throught the pcv valve, head is connected to the intake via the port on the valve cover. There is no line from the crancase to the intake.

Fack that would make since why no one dumps their OCC to the ground

[wassup61]

In states that would require inspection a VTA crankcase breather would be

A)Environmentally irresponsible
B)Bad for your motor
C)Grounds for citation

That being said, PG is working on a bolt on kit for the MS3 and MS6

-Jeff at PG

[xandrake]

Originally Posted by wassup61 In states that would require inspection a VTA crankcase breather would be A)Environmentally irresponsible B)Bad for your motor C)Grounds for citation That being said, PG is working on a bolt on kit for the MS3 and MS6 -Jeff at PG

lol

[wassup61]

Originally Posted by xandrake lol

FUCK YEAH!<---sorry female members

[jamesthebikeguy]

Originally Posted by wassup61 In states that would require inspection a VTA crankcase breather would be A)Environmentally irresponsible B)Bad for your motor C)Grounds for citation That being said, PG is working on a bolt on kit for the MS3 and MS6 -Jeff at PG

A and C i can understand how you might make those claims.

But justify B for me.

I know you wanna sell your bolt on kit and all, but explain how it could possibly be bad for the motor.

[Sport6]

Originally Posted by jamesthebikeguy A and C i can understand how you might make those claims. But justify B for me. I know you wanna sell your bolt on kit and all, but explain how it could possibly be bad for the motor.

Well I know in the Mazda 6, which had a PCV problem, if it would get stuck open, it would drink the oil because it would suck it back into the intake.

But if you don't allow the PCV to close under vacuum and have it vent directly to the ground, basically allowing you to dump the oil right to the ground.

The PCV is there to prevent anything (oil) from the crankcase to being sucked through the vacuum line and into the intake tract. The catch cans collect all the oil that is makes it past the pcv valve (usually small amounts) and usually gets sucked in the intake.

[bova]

i think the reason a catch can that comes off the crankcase and does not connect back to the intake manifold is bad because it does not allow the crankcase to evacuate properly. i think you need the vacuum from the intake manifold to help it.

[wassup61]

Venting to ground would cause a vacuum leak, and god forbid your PCV fails, Oil starvation/piston ring destruction FTL

-Jeff at PG

[buddhabum]

Originally Posted by wassup61 Venting to ground would cause a vacuum leak, and god forbid your PCV fails, Oil starvation/piston ring destruction FTL -Jeff at PG

That would be true if he was talking about the crankcase to intake manifold connection... He is talking about the connection from the valve cover to the intake -> turbo inlet. Which at best will occassionally spit oil into his CAI/SRI. I'm pretty sure there is no vacuum for this guy.

[wassup61]

There shouldn't be a leak for this connection to begin with unless you are pressurizing this connection which is NO GOOD.
Here is what worries me the most

1st Remove the hose + PCV from the crank case and the intake tract.

2nd re-use the stock PCV and install the PCV to the crank case and run a hose venting directly to the ground.

So unless the OP meant valvecover, he will be venting the CC to ground.


-Jeff at PG

[bova]

i see it as how jeff does, except ultimately also putting a plug on the intake manifold so there is no vacuum leak there. but still i don't know why you wouldn't do it like everyone else and just route from the catch can back to the intake manifold.

even if you are talking about the valve cover, ron(whoosh) who put a dual vent on his and had it go to a catch can and not back to the intake, told me if he were to do it again he would change the way the baffling was in the valve cover and then just run a long hose down then back up to the intake with no catch can.

[dukebrown]

sub

[06Speed6]

On my Mustang I vented my crankcase to the exhaust and anything the was vented would get burned. Its what all the drag cars do.

[MattJackson86]

Adding a breather filter to the head and removing the to the air intake has been discussed before many time. I think the final determination was that it could cause your car to run a little leaner as air (post MAF sensor) could normally enter the head via that tube. Since that would be blocked off more air would enter the engine and the ECU would not be expecting this as it expects some to go to head.

See this thread: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...se-filter.html

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 Adding a breather filter to the head and removing the to the air intake has been discussed before many time. I think the final determination was that it could cause your car to run a little leaner as air (post MAF sensor) could normally enter the head via that tube. Since that would be blocked off more air would enter the engine and the ECU would not be expecting this as it expects some to go to head. See this thread: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...se-filter.html

I had a breather filter on the valvecover vent and capped off the intake port, and did not run any leaner..

[ptperformance]

WOW, so much confussion in this thread.

I think he is talking about the valve cover to intake hose, if not then I have no idea what you guys are talking about. What I want to see is a unit ran from the valve cover to the exhaust system for scavange effect. With the high exhaust volume this would be ideal.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller I had a breather filter on the valvecover vent and capped off the intake port, and did not run any leaner..

The 6's don't seem to run any leaner. I have hooked up 3 cars (ms3's) to a filter and capped the intake tube and they start to lean out under off throttle conditions. The transitoin from off to on throttle creates a little back fire.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by ptperformance The 6's don't seem to run any leaner. I have hooked up 3 cars (ms3's) to a filter and capped the intake tube and they start to lean out under off throttle conditions. The transitoin from off to on throttle creates a little back fire.

That's very odd.. I was usually right around 14.2~14.5 at cruise and light throttle, a little rich because of the diode on the second O2, but no dirveability issues...

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller That's very odd.. I was usually right around 14.2~14.5 at cruise and light throttle, a little rich because of the diode on the second O2, but no dirveability issues...

Tell me about it, there seems to be a good amount of differences between the MS3 and 6's with the PCM programming.

[FantasmoNegro]

I always thought that it was vented back to the intake on a MAF system because the air in the motor was already accounted for by the MAF thus the reason it vents back into the intake after the MAF meter. Its about like the difference between BOV and BPV.

I could be wrong, I usually am.

[phantom3]

I was trying to wrap my head around this and Some of it doesn't make any sense to me. I was planning on doing this as follows.

Remove PCV system.
Cap IM
run both Valve cover and CC to OCC.
Vent OCC to Atmosphere.

-Without the PCV system connected to the IM You have cleaner air +1
-No Pcv valve +1
-No Back pressure in CC or VC +2
-Gasses vented to Atm. -1 (But I live in Alberta so +1)
-No Vacuum leaks +1

Maybe I don't understand completely. I don't know everything. But if I'm missing something please explain.

[whoosh@Realtune]

Originally Posted by phantom3 I was trying to wrap my head around this and Some of it doesn't make any sense to me. I was planning on doing this as follows. Remove PCV system. Cap IM run both Valve cover and CC to OCC. Vent OCC to Atmosphere. -Without the PCV system connected to the IM You have cleaner air +1 -No Pcv valve +1 -No Back pressure in CC or VC +2 -Gasses vented to Atm. -1 (But I live in Alberta so +1) -No Vacuum leaks +1 Maybe I don't understand completely. I don't know everything. But if I'm missing something please explain.

good luck with all that
go ahead and do exactly what was tried before and failed
you obviously have not read any of the posts and experiences

[bova]

i guess people don't understand when we say that our crankcase needs the vacuum from the intake manifold to evacuate it properly.

[whoosh@Realtune]

Originally Posted by bova80 i guess people don't understand when we say that our crankcase needs the vacuum from the intake manifold to evacuate it properly.

it's fine man
sometimes people don't want to listen and I'm not about to go out of my way to make him understand
it's pretty simple as you know

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by phantom3 if I'm missing something please explain.

Why does the CC need vacuum to evacuate? Please explain

[FantasmoNegro]

Originally Posted by phantom3 Why does the CC need vacuum to evacuate? Please explain

Because without vacuum from the intake manifold and no positive pressure in the crankcase that shit is just going to sit there.

[ms3guy22]

without your car does this:

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[phantom3]

I was digging around on another forum and thought of something.
(in theory would this work?) What about running a dry sump system? would that still require you to run a PCV? or could you cap it?

[whoosh@Realtune]

Originally Posted by phantom3 I was digging around on another forum and thought of something. (in theory would this work?) What about running a dry sump system? would that still require you to run a PCV? or could you cap it?

wowzerz
I've had only one car in my life that had a dry sump set up
If I told you the cost of the -12 & -16an fittings, the oil pan, oil tank, and peterson pump cost me...you would think I'm totally bull shitting you

to answer your question though.....your valve cover would have to be sealed as would the PCV catch tank on the front of your engine block "if" you were going dry sump

the oil tank which sits next to your engine now functions as your breather

[phantom3]

So cost aside. this seems to be the only way to eliminate the PCV from returning to the IM.

[kgb]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 Adding a breather filter to the head and removing the to the air intake has been discussed before many time. I think the final determination was that it could cause your car to run a little leaner as air (post MAF sensor) could normally enter the head via that tube. Since that would be blocked off more air would enter the engine and the ECU would not be expecting this as it expects some to go to head. See this thread: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...se-filter.html

Ok...this information helps me a bit as I just installed a Deluxe OCC from PG and am running extremely lean at idel (stft @ 25). I am using this following setup but I think I might of added an extra valve or something???...... I have the stock green valve > running to another valve, >to the OCC > then from the other OCC barb > to the crankcase. Does that sound like I set that up right?

Thanks guys!!