Well this was long over due and it took a little longer then I wanted, but the manifold I had to test is on the car and has been on for roughly 2wks now.

FIRST: As far as the install went, and my review of the manifold I have some mixed reviews on it thus far. It does seem to be a quality piece, welds aren't the worst, but aren't the best. The bracing they added is a nice touch if you're running a BT setup to help support the extra weight.

STOCK MANIFOLD REMOVAL: Removing the the stock manifold and doing the swap from the top is pretty straight forward and simple, depending on how small your hands are and the size of wrenches you have getting to the last couple manifold bolts requires removal of the entire EGR valve, I found it to be much simpler and allows you much more room for working.

INSTALL: The manifold goes is with ease between the firewall and the block no problems there. The toughest part is getting the head flange to line up entirely and getting it go on essentially. Some pry bars and a dead blow mallet helped with this part... This is where I began to run into my biggest issue... Once the manifold was flat to the head the turbo did NOT line up with the merge collector and the flange. The entire flange/collector area was off by approximately 1/2 to 3/4" this may not seem like a lot, but the turbo will not move that far to the right no matter how hard you try and what tools you use. Next, pulled the manifold back out to look everything over again everything looked fine, put the manifold back in and same thing happened. At this point I'm frustrated beyond words, this is just not lining up what so ever. @UnknownSuperhero; who graciously provided his garage space and tools up for this install and the idea of trying to get the turbo on the flange first then getting the manifold on the head. After some serious prying and (hammering) on the flange we were able to get everything on. Everything going well now we start bolting everything down and run into the next issue caused by the flange pulling the turbo to the drivers side of the car my turbo (gtx3076) now hits an exhaust stud on the head and I have no way to get the bolt back on. At this point, I'm so frustrated and annoyed I really wanted to just go back to stock and have this manifold fixed and redone with all the fitment issues I've had. Well, once again I'm convinced I've come this far that I need to finish it out, we pry the manifold away from the head and somehow create just enough room to get the bolt back on. All fine and dandy we start bolting everything down. The manifold was tightened in the proper sequence to ensure it sealed evenly across the head. Manifold is now on and everything is put back together and we fire up the car for first start up.... HUGE HUGE HUGE MASSIVE exhaust leak coming from every part of the manifold to the head. We did the ol'e BBQ lighter flame test and sure as shit leaking everywhere. This manifold is as tight as we can possibly get it. I used the provided gasket for testing, (big mistake) this gasket is way to thick for this type of application and does not crush enough to seal to the head. It's now midnight, I'm exhaust and have work in the morning, I drive the car and baby it home tell I have time to pull this all back apart and redo this and install a new gasket.

INSTALL CONT: Few days later I had the chance, I purchased a brand new OEM gasket from my local mazda dealer for this. @mWindu; and @msantana101; I can't thank you both enough for helping on this night to get everything re situated. Well, this part was much quicker now that I have 2 others helping and everything is fresh and the bolts were easy to break loose again. I'll keep this short, taking the manifold back out we ran into the exact same fitment issue with the manifold again on the re install. I must add that there is also a flange angle issue, this moved the bottom of my turbo towards the block, exact opposite of the steedspeed tilted manifold and makes the fitment for GT series turbo's very tight and not what I would call ideal in anyway. Now I know these were supposed to be final prototypes and the last revision, but they need some more work IMO. They were hand welded in a jig, my conclusion is that the jig was a little off from the cad drawings and design. Back on track, after re installing and dealing with all the same issues, the head is tight to the block and we fire the car up, no crazy major exhaust leak this time thank god. Heat cycled it and drove the car around let it cool down and re tightened everything.

POWER GAINS/SPOOL: Well, I was a little disappointed in this to be 100% honest. I was expecting to see some spool gains, ability to lower wgdc due to the fact that this should be flowing much better then our stock manifold. I saw absolutely zero spool gains, was not able to lower any wgdc and saw approximately 8-10whp gain from roughly 4200-5500rpm. I sent some logs over to Justin (atvfreek) for comparison and see if any re tuning was needed. My tune was still spot on and no adjustments were needed. You'd think something would be needed with adding such a significant flow mod over our stock exhaust manifold. This was a little disappointing to me. You'd honestly expect to have some changes be needed for something like this. What can you do though, right?

I wish I had all the pictures to post of this install to show all these little things I'm talking about, but thanks to some asshole the other night who stole my phone I have nothing (fuck shady people) side rant ended lol.

I hope this will help some people and @StayBroke; in getting some of these little last issues fixed and addressed. Thanks for letting me test this manifold. I've been beating on my car a lot more then I normally would just to really put it through it's paces.


FINAL IMPRESSION: Depending on the price of this unit, which is unknown to me at this time this would be a huge factor in my decision. I'd say this should sell somewhere between $350-500 that is my OPINION after testing and seeing the quality and results. This manifold to seems to be a more middle of the road option like the steedspeed or older dnp and pg manifolds. I do not see this manifold being beneficial for people trying to make big power on a built motor due to the lack of spool and power gains I saw on a GTX3076. If this had a longer length merge collector which is ideal for higher hp this may have helped, but that's neither here nor there. Hope this helps everyone.

I can't take too much credit on helping out as I just hand washed the car with quick detailer while you were fixing the manifold LOL. Either way, good write up.


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Damn well I WAS excited to get my Mani. Now I kind of have buyers remorse.

tappin

My review was not meant to create buyers remorse or make anyone feel that way. This was simply my honest review after testing and my findings. The manifold is a decent piece. Just had some issues with mine, I'm hoping others will not have the same issue

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You did exactly what you were supposed to do. You were dead honest...I appreciate it. We'll see if I have similar issues. I hope not :(.

tappin

I hope you don't either, but thanks for understanding a lot of people can't take an honest review if they point out any negative aspects of the product and I feel like that sometimes leads to part failures and bigger issues once it becomes a publicly released part for mass sale.

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I'm just shocked you didn't see any help spooling. That's mind blowing. You're sure you aren't still leaking exhaust?

tappin

About 99.8% sure I've tightened and re tightened everything and done multiple bbq lighter flame tests. If you look back at staybrokes post and graph he didn't gain and spool either. Honestly I feel thats because of the lack in length of the merge collector. It is extremely short and that does not benefit flow or making higher HP. The inside of the merge collector is a little rough and doesn't look to be the best I forgot to mention that in the review.

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So basically its hard as fuck to install and doesn't make power. Damn $375 in the can....

Don't take it the wrong way like I said, honest reviews are def important.

tappin

[QUOTE=h0ckeyman;2236510]So basically its hard as fuck to install and doesn't make power. Damn $375 in the can....

Don't take it the wrong way like I said, honest reviews are def important.

I hear you, but there is a reason why this manifold is the price you paid for it imo. Also, the runners going to where they are on the merge collector does not help promote faster spool either. Ideally you'd want 1 and 4 on one side of the merge collector and 2 and 3 on the other or hell even 1 and 3 and 2 and 4 which is more for a divided setup, but those combinations will help with spool. The 1 and 2 3 and 4 design is not the best with a 4cyl firing order

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[quote=LumberJack;2236515]To be honest I wouldnt spend even $1 for a Mani that is going to make my life hell and literally do nothing for me. Its a complete waste at that point.

tappin

I have been in contact with Xs Power on this manifold. I Should be receiving mine in about a week or so. Going to be doing a before and after dyno comparison on a car with a K04. Also going to see how fitment is with a stock turbo / downpipe. Should have a full write up on the manifold soon.

My plans are to dyno the car as it is now in my signature. Then I will Dyno the car with only changing the manifold out.

Next, I will put the stock manifold back on with an atp downpipe and dyno it. Then finally will dyno it again with the Xs power manifold and Downpipe.

This should give us all a better idea of fit with stock turbos and power gains. My timeline is to have this all done within 3 weeks from now.

Will keep you guys informed.

IMO you don't install an ex manifold and expect to see gains without touching the tune. A mod like this is an "efficiency" mod, meaning you should be able to run higher boost without as diminishing results compared to the stock mani. I also wonder if you would be able to push timing some more without the same knock showing up, as now the motor should be able to breath easier. I would ask TheFreek to see if you can squeeze anything else out of this tune.
@NJSPEED3; can speak some words on efficiency...his intake mani swap produced some really interesting results based on how much power is made at a certain amount of boost. IMO, @LumberJack; your next mod for sure should be the JMF intake mani to get the most out of your setup. Your turbo is made for boost, so throw more boost at it ;)

I can't run anymore boost anywhere I'm completely out of fuel at 25+ up top and I have a very solid and flat 400tq curve starting at just shy of 4k rpm. Freek has said I cannot comfortably add more boost at 4k due to the tq and I have no fueling room up top my idc is pegged at 115% up top and timing wise no room either. I've got my car pushed damn near to the limits that it can be without aux fueling. I'm running 21* of timing at 7k on my dd map.

The manifold also did not help lower and minor kr that I had or was having. I changed plugged to a brand new set of ngk as well shortly after. I personally don't see the manifold helping people in a big turbo setup for power and I stated why

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I am sure that tuning will come into play for sure for power gains. But I am simply testing to see if any gains happen on a well tuned car with a stock turbo. I will be logging boost to see spool time and peak boost. I will be doing a simple / straightforward comparison test. Use the data to make up your mind.

I do know for a fact that on other turbo cars I have messed with over the years I have seen differences in power & spool time with only swapping manifolds and not touching the tune. On a turbo Focus I bult, going from a log manifold to a long collector ramhorn manifold made about 17whp more without touching the tune or boost. Yes, the manifold may allow more power by tuning, but honestly a good manifold should make some small improvement over a factory cast manifold without messing with the tune.

I hope it makes some kind of gain, but if it doesn't then we have more info for the good of the community to work with.

well shit, that is maxed out. nevermind then lol. You went from the stock ex mani to this correct? I would jump on the JMF intake mani as your next mod for sure.

Lol, my next mod is built motor. I am ordering pistons/rods and head studs tonight

Since you are on an e85 mix is why you can't run more boost. I wonder if someone running meth who could run more boost would see better gains.

Also, if BT doesn't see gains, than there is no way that the stock turbo will. It doesn't work that way. If anything there would be minimal gains on K04 and more on BT setup.

E85 takes more fuel to burn then 91. So you run out of fuel sooner which is why you want to bigger injectors. But we are fucked in that regard. Thus is why we need ether meth or 5th/6th port or the jmf mani with port injection.

It won't happen that way, the design of this manifold the runner diameter merge collector design and length are nothing that promote flow and power. It is a very short length merge collector. The best flowing and higher hp supporting manifolds such as afi have merge collectors twice the size of this. I don't want to keep sounding like a debby downer, but I don't see this manifold doing much more or helping in any real significant fashion. There is a reason this manifold will only be 350 to 450 bucks and an afi is almost 1000 bucks. Parts such as these and pricing "more so than not" directly relate to quality and pefroamnce.


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I could be the collector or the runner size is either too big which cools off the exhaust causing a restriction or theyre too small. Or hell, it could still easily just be your setup. Who knows. Testing on only one car is not very scientific. Not to be a downer or say its not important, but this manifold needs a lot more testers to see what is really going on. It's hard to believe thaat almost anything out there isn't better than the stock piece of crap.

I will be installing one on my car tomorrow or the next day and I'll be back with my personal results.

I can tell you with 99% accuracy the runners are not too big. Hope you have better results then I did.

I've also slowly been developing a larger exhaust bleak as the days go in. The manifold is leaking pretty heavily from where the relief cut is in the head flange bbq lighter confirmed the area. I did use all brand new oem gaskets. If I have to pull this shit off again my stock one is more then likely going back on. I'm tired of 1 issue after another :(

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Did you use copper spray?

power parts such as a tubular manifold, you get what you pay for imo.

I went from a steedspeed to the afi, and neither were cheap manifolds, but the gains, WORTH every dollar.
all you bt guys want more power, there's a reason why you have to pay.

my highest trap on the steedspeed was 117. my highest trap on the afi was a touch under 124. that right there proves massive power gains.

I'm not knocking this manifold at all, but if it's a Bitch to install, and you haven't gained any real power like you should with a tubular manifold, then all it is was something better looking than that rusty stock one.

Teddy he's maxed out at 25psi on E85. You made like what 430whp on the SS right? Then with this AFI it seems like 475-500whp...because you turned the boost up. He's maxed out on IDC because he has no more fuel...hence no gains.

That really wasn't his point. I've talked to teddy through every step of this install and he knew about it early. He's trying to say that regardless if boost change, you get what you pay for... ie we should be seeing a fairly significant gain in power spool and flow even at the same boost level. If this manifold was flowing and better then a stock one I'd of spooled better and been able to lower wgdc immediately after installing.

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Well you're still leaking exhaust from it...and honestly like I said before one test makes nothing scientific fact. I still haven't seen VD's or logs either.

Everything you are saying could be 110% fact. I am not disputing that...but it could also be an anomaly or you having other issues with your car. That's why scientists test things over and over and over again. There are a shit load of variables. You've come to a lot of conclusions based on your own experiences, which is understandable. Other people haven't had those experiences, and to be honest there needs to be a lot more info and testing before an OVERALL consensus on this manifold is reached.

This exhaust leak just started with and got worse all within a few days. I 100% assure you I have nothing else wrong with my car. My car runs well and strong, I am and was still making 400/400 once I put this manifold on which is what I was making with a stock manifold on the exact same map. As stated before freek found there to be no tuning or any changes based off of multiple logs, that says a lot. An exhaust manifold should require quite a few changes IMO and most others opinions.

Staybroke posted logs and a VD back within like the first 10 posts. He gained ZERO spool from this manifold. Realistically VD isn't a great tool for showing changes on an exhaust manifold due to the immense variables when taking a log to input into VD.

Not debating anything really, my point is just that testing something once and then making a consensus about it is far from a scientific process. If you can't see how many variables are involved and how things can and do change in the real world then I am sorry. That is my only point...I don't even disagree that your conclusions are probably correct, I just don't think it's fair to make a final judgement on something based on one test with so many countless variables.

If it went on lets say 15 different cars with different setups and the gains were a minimal % across the board than I would say that average might be a pretty accurate representation of the benefits of this manifold. Unfortunately, that is not what we have at all.

ran 28 on the steedspeed.
28 on afi.

I spool faster, and the gains are noticeable.

Damn, my bad thought you had 26psi on the SS then recently bumped up to 28.

both manis track maps were 28

All in all this manifold was not built to set higj hp records, it was there to help people that were on stock turbo flange to get a manifold at a decent price.

This thing is like a dnp and alot of people still run that.

If it didnt work out oh well, we will go a different route. But ive installed 3, and ran on my car. All I am saying is yes the afi is better but I would never ever ecpect to make a alot of power on the stock flange.

Now teddy has a t3 or t4 right? @teddy;

All in all this manifold was not built to set higj hp records, it was there to help people that were on stock turbo flange to get a manifold at a decent price.

This thing is like a dnp and alot of people still run that.

If it didnt work out oh well, we will go a different route. But ive installed 3, and ran on my car. All I am saying is yes the afi is better but I would never ever ecpect to make a alot of power on the stock flange.

Now teddy has a t3 or t4 right? @Voltron Locos;

And yes I am alittle buzzed on drugs from the doctor lol.

Yes t3 flange.
my mani swap helped me tremendously. I'm not saying that the afi is the best out there but compared to the gains over the SS mani, it's a huge improvement. I definitely was choked up on the top end, and that's where we felt we needed the most power especially on the stock motor.

this manifold you're running, after full tuning, for the money you pay, could be a improvement over the stock one. none of the guys running it, are done with their tunes including you.

time will tell, and trap speeds will tell.

Installing mine today. We'll see what the my highly precise butt dyno says. With Gerry's IM I'm on less timing and still making pretty much the same power...was easy to tell that it flows better.

Not expecting AFI type gains but it HAS to be better than the stock EM.

Teddy's example is good in showing how different designs can produce more power.

Teddy's tuner saw a big change in the data logs after his AFI manifold was installed. Teddy'sa tuner also saw changes when he installed my intake manifold. The proper changes were made and gains were had.

If Lumberjack reported 0 changes in the logs than I think its safe to say this manifold flows the same or less than the stock one.

What gauge thickness is the tubing?

Personally for 400-425whp I think the stock manifold will do fine. Save up and buy a proper exhaust manifold and do it right one time. As far as stock flange exhaust manifolds, I really like the CPE one. The CPE manifold collector is huge compared to some other manifolds. This might explain why those guys make easy power. I have a local here in NJ making 450whp on low timing and not much boost 25psi (atp gtx3076) IF I'm not mistaken.

I hadn't given any thought towards collector design until I read this, so I took a look at my rapebuilt... sweet jesus; the collectors are coming together at a 45* angle.

Wowzers
I need to donate
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Is that good or bad?

Bad according to this thread... You want them to merge as gradually as possible

Here's the best picture I have:
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...621_005100.jpg