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 Old 09-11-2013, 06:19 PM   #1
 
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Default XS Power Turbo Manifold is here... Install pics & Dyno results to follow soon.

I talked the folks at Xs Power into selling me one of their new manifolds for the mazdaspeeds. These manifolds are not officially on the market yet as they are still in the testing phase. There have been a few design changes made and they are still finalizing everything. I have purchased one of the manifolds and was allowed to do so with a promise to do a review on the manifolds and to get some performance numbers on a chassis dyno. I am not being paid for this, I am simply using my free dyno access to help out the community. Please don't ask me about purchasing one of these manifolds as I am not the seller, and please hold of on contacting xs power at this time. They really do want to make sure they have a good product before offering these for public sale.

They sent me 2 versions of the manifold for testing out. I think this is pretty awesome of them and it shows that they want to make sure they are putting out a good product and not something that "may fit". I have worked in performance car shops either full or part time for the past decade and I have seen some crappy products in my time. This manifold does not seem like a poor design at all. It has thick flanges, thick wall tubing and proper bracing. It weighs a lot and has very few welds on the runners. It looks like it will flow way better than the stock cast manifold so I expect decent gains.

They also sent me a couple different gaskets to test out.

My plans are to test the manifolds for fit, and take lots of step by step install pictures. I will be installing a catless downpipe / tuining the car and getting a baseline dyno. I will then dyno again after just swapping the manifold at the same boost level. Will be logging to see if this helps with spool time as well. At this point I will then see how much power I can make on 93 octane with a little more tuning.

This will all be done with a stock k04 on the car in my signature.

Will be about 2 weeks before I have time to get this all finished but I will let you all know the pro's and cons of the manifold. I am going to try do the best unbiased review I can. I will also be sharing my findings with XS power and they will be using this info to further develop their product.

Now some pictures...

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]




INSTALL GUIDE HERE XS Power Turbo Manifold is here... Install pics & Dyno results to follow soon.
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Last edited by Turbo_Steve; 11-08-2013 at 09:58 AM. Reason: Added link to install
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 Old 09-13-2013, 10:55 AM   #2
 
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Quick update... Just dropped both manifolds off to be flow benched. Also dropped off a stock manifold for comparison.

The idea behind this is to see a baseline of how the stock cast manifold flows runner to runner and total flow.

Then compare both designs of this manifold for runner vs runner and total flow.

I want to know which deisgn has all 4 runners flowing air as close to each other as possible.

I will then make an overall % comparison to a stock manifold.

This is more so to check the design between the 2 versions. I know it won't instantly speak for performance of either. Will have results monday.
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 Old 09-13-2013, 11:06 AM   #3
 
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Price spec?
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 Old 09-13-2013, 11:15 AM   #4
 
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The version on the right in the last pic looks identical to my rapebuilt. It'll be interesting to see if there is any difference between the two (slightly) different routings.
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 Old 09-13-2013, 11:22 AM   #5
 
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Subbing for info
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 Old 09-13-2013, 11:50 AM   #6
 
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WTF, This is already being done by me. Who did you talk to?

Anywho its good to get more reviews.
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 Old 09-13-2013, 11:53 AM   #7
 
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subbed! very interested to see how this turns out
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 Old 09-13-2013, 01:16 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by Boost Addict View Post
Subbing for info
Originally Posted by almcbs View Post
subbed! very interested to see how this turns out
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 Old 09-13-2013, 01:18 PM   #9
 
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Looks like top build quality.

In for pricing guestimates.
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 Old 09-13-2013, 01:20 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by StayBroke View Post
WTF, This is already being done by me. Who did you talk to?

Anywho its good to get more reviews.
I wanted one for myself... and the only way I could get one was by doing this. + I am still running a k04 and I think it will be cool to see the gains with the stock turbo.

We can compare notes
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 Old 09-13-2013, 01:29 PM   #11
 
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The more the merrier

sent from my peepee

Aaaaaaaaand subbed

sent from my peepee
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 Old 09-14-2013, 07:03 AM   #12
 
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Flow bench results are in.

I will start this by saying that the point of flow bench testing and exhaust manifold isn't about total flow, it's more about finding out how close flow is from runner to runner. If all 4 runners flow equally the power potential is greater. Other factors do come into play like merge collector shape and angles. Overall manifold flow is also limited by the size of the turbine flange.

The three manfolds tested will be known as STOCK, V1(Polished), and V2 non polished.

These were tested by a local friend who has a home built flow bench. His flow bench may not read true cfm but should be fairly close. It is extremely accurate in spotting flow differences which is critical in head and manifold porting.

Here are the numbers

Code:
                       
              Flow in cfm  & percentage of flow worse than best flowing runner
RUNNER            1               2                3               4
STOCK         188cfm          146cfm           281cfm          219cfm
% WORSE       33%              48%               Best             22%

AVG FLOW OF ALL RUNNERS  208cfm

             Flow in cfm  & percentage of flow worse than best flowing runner
RUNNER            1               2                3               4
V1                292cfm         307cfm            366cfm          307cfm 
% worse           20%           16%               Best             16%          

AVG FLOW OF ALL RUNNERS 318cfm

             Flow in cfm  & percentage of flow worse than best flowing runner
RUNNER            1               2                3               4
V2               309cfm         311cfm            346cfm          333cfm 
% worse          10%            10%               Best             3.5%          

AVG FLOW OF ALL RUNNERS  325cfm

         Total Flow With all ports open

Stock   456 cfm    
V1       632 cfm    28% better than stock
V2       652 cfm    31% better than stock
The worst flowing runner of v1 & v2 is double the worst flowing runner of the stock manifold.

both versions flow very well although version 2 has the best equal flow across all runners.


Next step is to install both and dyno.
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 Old 09-14-2013, 07:12 AM   #13
 
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From what we can see in your pictures, V2 certainly appears to have a better collector design.

Is that an EGT bung on the side of the collectors?
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 Old 09-14-2013, 07:15 AM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
From what we can see in your pictures, V2 certainly appears to have a better collector design.

Is that an EGT bung on the side of the collectors?
Yes, it is an egt bung. Upon first look at the collector on version 1 I expected much worse results from the flow bench. Honestly it's not bad.
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 Old 09-14-2013, 07:41 AM   #15
 
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Looks like V1 has already hit ebay.

Mazdaspeed MZR Exhaust Manifold | eBay
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 Old 09-14-2013, 07:47 AM   #16
 
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 Old 09-14-2013, 08:02 AM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
Looks like V1 has already hit ebay.

Mazdaspeed MZR Exhaust Manifold | eBay
Fitment has been confirmed on v1. I did let xs power know that the v2 manifold was a better design. I was told that about 40 of them were made total so maybe they are selling them off.

I believe the plan is to go with the v2 design but I think the price will be higher.
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 Old 09-14-2013, 08:50 AM   #18
 
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No they have the v2 ready to ship. I am working with the guy that has them, he is about 1 hour away from me. I have v1 and v2 at mu house. The v2 is going to haltect to try and become a vendor on here. They are vendors for pte etc... and hey gove competitive prices.i hope this works out.
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 Old 09-14-2013, 09:09 AM   #19
 
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I want a v2 so whenever they're available if either of you guys get a heads up just let me know. I would like to do some further testing.
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 Old 09-14-2013, 09:15 AM   #20
 
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These look awesome. I've wanted an exhaust manifold for a while, but $1K on a full race mani is a little more than i'm in the market to pay.

InB4groupbuy.
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 Old 09-14-2013, 09:23 AM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by StayBroke View Post
No they have the v2 ready to ship. I am working with the guy that has them, he is about 1 hour away from me. I have v1 and v2 at mu house. The v2 is going to haltect to try and become a vendor on here. They are vendors for pte etc... and hey gove competitive prices.i hope this works out.
This is good news!
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 Old 09-14-2013, 01:53 PM   #22
 
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Hopefully we can get on the forum, if so we will do a gb.
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 Old 09-14-2013, 01:54 PM   #23
 
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+1 for group buy. Flow is flow!!
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 Old 09-14-2013, 06:45 PM   #24
 
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I want a v2
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 Old 09-14-2013, 07:56 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by StayBroke View Post
Hopefully we can get on the forum, if so we will do a gb.
huh?
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 Old 09-14-2013, 08:55 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Steve View Post
Flow bench results are in.

I will start this by saying that the point of flow bench testing and exhaust manifold isn't about total flow, it's more about finding out how close flow is from runner to runner. If all 4 runners flow equally the power potential is greater. Other factors do come into play like merge collector shape and angles. Overall manifold flow is also limited by the size of the turbine flange.

The three manfolds tested will be known as STOCK, V1(Polished), and V2 non polished.

These were tested by a local friend who has a home built flow bench. His flow bench may not read true cfm but should be fairly close. It is extremely accurate in spotting flow differences which is critical in head and manifold porting.

Here are the numbers

Code:
                       
              Flow in cfm  & percentage of flow worse than best flowing runner
RUNNER            1               2                3               4
STOCK         188cfm          146cfm           281cfm          219cfm
% WORSE       33%              48%               Best             22%

AVG FLOW OF ALL RUNNERS  208cfm

             Flow in cfm  & percentage of flow worse than best flowing runner
RUNNER            1               2                3               4
V1                292cfm         307cfm            366cfm          307cfm 
% worse           20%           16%               Best             16%          

AVG FLOW OF ALL RUNNERS 318cfm

             Flow in cfm  & percentage of flow worse than best flowing runner
RUNNER            1               2                3               4
V2               309cfm         311cfm            346cfm          333cfm 
% worse          10%            10%               Best             3.5%          

AVG FLOW OF ALL RUNNERS  325cfm

         Total Flow With all ports open

Stock   456 cfm    
V1       632 cfm    28% better than stock
V2       652 cfm    31% better than stock
The worst flowing runner of v1 & v2 is double the worst flowing runner of the stock manifold.

both versions flow very well although version 2 has the best equal flow across all runners.


Next step is to install both and dyno.
Stock manifold numbers are EXCELLENT, thank you for getting those. I'm going to quote you over here...because it might go to explain a shit ton for us.
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 Old 09-15-2013, 04:13 AM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by The Pu of Manchu View Post
huh?
Do I need to put they? I have put alot of time with helping them so yes we.
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 Old 09-15-2013, 05:28 AM   #28
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Will there be v-band, T3 and T4 flange options?
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 Old 09-16-2013, 04:05 PM   #29
 
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I have a v2 installed currently.
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 Old 09-16-2013, 05:40 PM   #30
 
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
Will there be v-band, T3 and T4 flange options?
Once the stock flange manifolds are gone they are doing a v3 manifold. Will have different flange options, ewg, and egt bung.
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 Old 09-17-2013, 04:21 AM   #31
 
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I'd be Ssoooooooooooooooooo happy to see a divided t3...


I had a dream once that one was available. Then I woke up covered in sweat and disappointment.
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 Old 09-17-2013, 06:14 AM   #32
 
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@Turbo_Steve;

Are you going to be using the stock manifold gasket? If so, I ran into one issue. Since the main flange is actually bigger than the flange on the stock EM, there is a rivet on the top of the gasket, on the alternator side that the flange will run into making it impossible to get it flush with the motor. You just need to remove that rivet and you will be good to go. I'd suggest using lots of copper spray as well.
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 Old 09-17-2013, 06:40 AM   #33
 
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Originally Posted by h0ckeyman View Post
@Turbo_Steve;

Are you going to be using the stock manifold gasket? If so, I ran into one issue. Since the main flange is actually bigger than the flange on the stock EM, there is a rivet on the top of the gasket, on the alternator side that the flange will run into making it impossible to get it flush with the motor. You just need to remove that rivet and you will be good to go. I'd suggest using lots of copper spray as well.
My plan was to re-use the stock gasket. Thank you for the tip!

I also wanted to update everyone with my results here. I spent about 4 1/2 hours installing my downpipe yesterday and now that I have it installed and the map tweaked a little bit for it I am ready to baseline dyno this saturday. I will then return the following saturday for an after dyno.

Although I am worried my clutch may be slipping a little now...

My tq in virtual dyno showed 379 ft/lb at 3300 and then fell off rather sharply. Will have to post a picture of that later but I feel it must be clutch slip.
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 Old 09-17-2013, 07:00 AM   #34
 
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Drive down the road in 3rd or 4th gear at a set speed and then select a lower gear and let the clutch out. If the RPM doesn't imediately come up your clutch is slipping. Another test is to put the car in 2nd or third gear and let the clutch out from a dead stop. If the car doesn't stall and the rpm's stay the same as before then the clutch is slipping. Yet another method is while going up hill maintain gear & throttle position, if the car slows down and the rpm's remain the same instead of falling as the speed drops then the clutch is slipping.
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 Old 09-17-2013, 07:32 AM   #35
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LOL @StayBroke; taking his sweet time on this. Glad these are moving again, great info.
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 Old 09-17-2013, 08:03 AM   #36
 
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Originally Posted by SofaKingAwesome View Post
LOL @StayBroke; taking his sweet time on this. Glad these are moving again, great info.
Yes its been a frustrating adventure thats for sure.
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 Old 09-17-2013, 08:21 AM   #37
 
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Pardon me for sounding stupid, but are flow bench numbers on a EM somewhat irrelevant since you are not including the factors from the IM flow pattern and head itself? Entering air is the same as Leaving?
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 Old 09-17-2013, 08:29 AM   #38
 
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It would be independent of the IM because you're exhausting after the intake valves are closed (it would impact the amount of gas to be exhausted, but not necessarily the heat/pressure remaining after forcing the exhaust out). That's my take on it anyway.

Has anyone flowbenched a head to see how the ports/valves are matched? We have two pieces in the IM and EM, but what about the head?
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 Old 09-17-2013, 08:33 AM   #39
 
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Originally Posted by Etipp98 View Post
Pardon me for sounding stupid, but are flow bench numbers on a EM somewhat irrelevant since you are not including the factors from the IM flow pattern and head itself? Entering air is the same as Leaving?
I doubt they are irrelevant.... The numbers do change when they are bolted to a cylinder head.

Based on how the exhaust ports typically flow on these heads, you do want the exhaust manifold to be able to outflow the exhaust port it is attached to.

Also as stated above it's more about consistency of design. If you look at how ungodly terrible the stock manifold flows when comparing all 4 runners you have to realize that can't be good for performance.

The stock manifold may in fact help cause cylinder #3 to run lean leading to ZZB...

Phate is doing some great research over here
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 Old 09-22-2013, 11:51 AM   #40
 
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V1 and V2 manifolds were test fit this weekend. V1 was a direct pain free bolt on. V2 required me to enlarge / slot 1 bolt hole but was otherwise painless. XS power knows of the issue with the bolt hole and it is being fixed on all v2-3 manifolds from this point on. Going to get back on the dyno next weekend.
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