XS Power Turbo Manifold is here... Install pics & Dyno results to follow soon.

[MattJackson86]

thats gonna take a few reads from me to think over, but i see where your going...hmm...

I am using ATP studs, washers, and OEM nuts on my turbo flange fyi. The studs dont hit my mani piping. Heres a dumb question, but you got me thinking, with these studs which side goes in the turbo and which side through the flange? http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=FST

I put the short side in turbo and long side through flange.

Sadly I do feel that I may have a $600 paper weight at this point ($400 + coating + repairs)

[TiGraySpeed6]

My studs just came from the local hardware store, but looked like the ATP's except the long side was longer. I'd have to go pick up another one to get an accurate measurement tho.

Short side in the turbo.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Arguably a distinctly different stud/nut configuration and with a lot more flexibility on terms of being able to tighten as needed with threads to spare

I think we may be on to something...

[MattJackson86]

We may be (im still trying to picture the stud/shoulder issue), but I still worry about what appears to be the lack of space in the first place for a BT. I am not convinced that even if we could close that gap, that the turbo would even fit without the compressor side hitting some of my studs on the block. Need somebody with a BT and this mani to chime in on what their space looks like.

We need XS Power to get in here and give their 2cents. They are a vendor on here so they need to help us out imo.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Cutting the head studs for the ex mani has been happening for a long time for this very reason. I search it just to get an idea, and one of the first results goes back to dougefresh in 2011

Need ex Mani Stud info Please

[dale_gribble]

I need to pull out my down pipe for clearance mod anyways, and I am going to change turbo-manifold studs and either mod or remove the turbo bracket at the same time. If mine still doesn't seal perfectly after that, I may go back to stock for the time being. I am getting some exhaust fumes in my cabin when I have non-recirc set for the HVAC fan and it is pissing me off. I HATE when a mod makes my car racecar.

[MattJackson86]

Seems like I will start to remove things again tonight and replace the 2 studs with bolts or shorter studs. I'll then see where we are at on getting the turbo flange snug.

[dale_gribble]

If your nuts aren't fused to your studs and the nuts move freely on the studs, then it won't do much for you. My recommendation is really only if the nut is fused on the stud at a specific height, in which case the shoulder of the stud may bottom out before the nut reaches the required torque on the exhaust manifold flange since the XS flange is slimmer then stock.

[MattJackson86]

Yea my nuts are were easy to tighten down fully, and removing them they came off the studs (except one which i torqued big time). I have to be torqued more than 37 ft lbs on some of them. I was really trying to close that gap

I think ill try removing the exhaust from DP and see if that frees up a bit of movement, and then with bolts maybe the turb can swing just a bit more and close up the gap. Im not holding my breath though. I think the actual angle of the flange is off like you previously mentioned.

[mgramata]

I got rid of the original turbo studs as they were hard to get tight after installing the manifold. I tried shorting them to not hit the runners on 1&2 but just ended up using regular ol bolts. So far I'm good like this, but I did have a leak at the front of the turbo flange on initial install. Replaced the gasket and I'm good. But now I'm only seeing 16lbs of boost as opposed to the 21 I'm tuned for. Maybe I sprung a boost leak while re-installing??

[dale_gribble]

Update @MattJackson86;?

[Koke382]

Someone should write a detailed how to on how to instal this on a speed3 and speed6 with pics. I know theres some but with all these issues it would sure help others to see what fixes have worked for others. Im going to be buying oem gaskets and some studs bols ect to do my install. Im running the stock k04 and a cnt catless downpipe so ill see how it goes for me. Will be getting my mani resurfaced after xmas and starting to buy the misc lil parts to make the install easyer. Hope it turns out well. Lol

sent from my peepee

[MattJackson86]

Dropped the turbo from the manifold last night as well as disconnected the DP from the exhaust. Still cant slide the turbo over, it wont drop enough (hitting block) for the turbo studs to be lower than the mani flange. I cant remove 1 of the turbo studs to make clearance for it to slide over, thus the mani is gonna have to be loosened tonight to lift it over the turbo studs and slide the turbo over. Once its moved over I have some spare new ATP studs that I used on the turbo and downpipe, and will replace the problematic 2-3 studs on block. Then bolt the mani back and turbo to mani.

After removing the downpipe from the exhaust the downpipe is still quite rigid (it still connected to the 2 exhaust hangers). I think to give me the absolute best odds of this working I will hang the turbo from the mani, remove the DP from the turbo, then fully bolt the turbo to the mani. If the gap exists still then there is nothing more I could possibly do without modifying mani more and would prove that the mani just has issues. If the gap goes away then I would assume its the DP pulling on the turbo (due to turbo being moved closer to block by manu) and would need to figure out how to get the DP attached once the turbo is fully bolted and tight. Hoping that the order I bolt things in will work. Mani to engine first, turbo to mani second, then dp to turbo. I think it may work (fingers crossed). Just hope there is enough slack in DP and exhaust to make up the distance the Turbo was moved closer to block.

[Outlaw4shrt]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 We may be (im still trying to picture the stud/shoulder issue), but I still worry about what appears to be the lack of space in the first place for a BT. I am not convinced that even if we could close that gap, that the turbo would even fit without the compressor side hitting some of my studs on the block. Need somebody with a BT and this mani to chime in on what their space looks like.

I don't know man, I installed this manifold back in May and haven't had an issue. I think I was the first one to test fit the v2 mani so I'm not sure if it's a batch issue or what, but I haven't had any of the mentioned problems and I'm also on a GTX3071 and M2 downpipe. No gasket issues, no exhaust leaks, and my downpipe didn't make contact with the driveshaft. I'll try and take some pics of my clearances tonight.

[MattJackson86]

If it doesn't work out I'll cross my fingers that xs power replace or refund it, but I'm not holding my breath on that..

[Turbo_Steve]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 If it doesn't work out I'll cross my fingers that xs power replace or refund it, but I'm not holding my breath on that..

Have you tried to email them? You need to email them direct with problems. Dont assume they are reading this.

[MattJackson86]

Oh I know, if my efforts to make it work do not work out I will reach out to them direct and see what they can do. I just need to rule out installation error as the cause as I know they are going to want me to try all that I am doing anyways. It's good gathering knowledge though of people with similar issues.

[dale_gribble]

Ok update... So my header head flange definitely isn't leaking. That is clearly evident here-



The turbo flange is leaking pretty bad.



The turbo flange looks terrible; when you can tell visually that it isn't flat, it isn't flat.



I pulled the DP to dent it in a bit so it stops making contact with the driveshaft flange. The divit is pretty deep. I might take it to a muffler shop to repair it before reinstalling. I don't want to end up with a pinhole.



This is my last go around with this header. I am going to get it machined, I am using all new studs/nuts/gaskets, I am going to remove the turbo bracket (for now) and see what happens. If it leaks, it's gone.

[h0ckeyman]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Ok update... So my header head flange definitely isn't leaking. That is clearly evident here- The turbo flange is leaking pretty bad. The turbo flange looks terrible; when you can tell visually that it isn't flat, it isn't flat. I pulled the DP to dent it in a bit so it stops making contact with the driveshaft flange. The divit is pretty deep. I might take it to a muffler shop to repair it before reinstalling. I don't want to end up with a pinhole. This is my last go around with this header. I am going to get it machined, I am using all new studs/nuts/gaskets, I am going to remove the turbo bracket (for now) and see what happens. If it leaks, it's gone.

Use copper spray!

tappin

[TiGraySpeed6]

Wow, does that turbo flange really drop away as bad as it looks in that pic?? Damn. I'm not sure if it's the angle, or the soot being on there or what but that looks like a monster change.

Remember if it's milled down you may want to pick up washers or otherwise address the shoulder on the studs & nut clearance we were talking about a few days ago!

[Easter Bunny]

Can you throw a straight edge on the turbo flange and take a pic for reference?

[Turbo_Steve]

Email the warped flange pic to xspower. The person you need to talk to isn't the same person from xs power who handles their vendor account on here.

Xxspower@gmail.com.

I talked to the owner via email. He is going off our feedback on this piece. The builder made the relief cut after resurfacing the head flange and some of them were warped. We reported they were warped so they went out to have the head flanges machined. He said nobody reported th turbo flange was warped to him yet. I let him know, he needs pictures of this.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny Can you throw a straight edge on the turbo flange and take a pic for reference?

Already dropped it off at shop for resurface...

The guy thinks it has heat cycled and settled so it will probably seal fine after resurface.

[LumberJack]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Already dropped it off at shop for resurface...

Where did you end up going too for it?

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

[dale_gribble]

Arrow. I've used him before and since he did yours I decided to go there; its like a 3 day turn which kinda sucks but ah well...

[LumberJack]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Arrow. I've used him before and since he did yours I decided to go there; its like a 3 day turn which kinda sucks but ah well...

Oh awesome. They're really nice and I liked there work. Mine took 2 days

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

[MattJackson86]

Sheesh, good luck. Im going to knock it all out this weekend. Got the turbo fully dropped last night but still can't slide it over enough to remove the studs. May just stop trying to prevent inevitable and just start over. Remove mani, remove turbo, fix studs, and re-install.

Interesting your flange was leaking in same spot as mine. I hope the re-surface fixes it for you. Let me know if you can see a gap when you re-install. Wonder if you may need to re-install with DP not attached like im thinking.

[Jeff23spl]

wow! we can see the warp on the picture! Can you tell if it was like this at time of install or it become like that after heat cycle ?
Maybe a brand new one will need to be heat treated before re-surfacing...I'M thinking about throwing it into a wood stove for few hours lol...

[dale_gribble]

I think it may not have been flat during install; the leak flutter was there, I just thought it was the header just being noisier than the manifold as exhaust passes through which is consistent with my experience with headers on other vehicles.

It did seems to get worse over time and then I finally saw the carbon build up on the gasket in the front. I think if both mating surfaces are verified and/or machined prior to install that you will be in a lot better shape than me.

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Wow, does that turbo flange really drop away as bad as it looks in that pic?? Damn. I'm not sure if it's the angle, or the soot being on there or what but that looks like a monster change. Remember if it's milled down you may want to pick up washers or otherwise address the shoulder on the studs & nut clearance we were talking about a few days ago!

Thanks, I have 9 new studs/nuts ready to go on, so since the nuts are free to snug on the studs independently (i.e. not fused), they will torque correctly against the mating surfaces.

I do think my reusing the fused nuts on studs may have exacerbated the issue.

[MattJackson86]

So I think i have to conclude this Mani just makes everything sit at different angles and locations. I removed the Downpipe after hanging turbo from Mani and sure enough I was able to rotate the turbo and close the gap up more. It looks pretty good at the moment and I think it would be leak free. Problem is, I can now not get the downpipe reconnected. It needs to rotate a tad and I can't get it at the moment. Downpipe is just connected to rubber exhaust hangers at moment, no where else. Tons of wiggle room but just can't get it connected. Will try removing hangers after lunch but I am not too please how much stuff I am having to alter when this should just work. If I ever have to remove the Mani in future I would have to disconnect dp and everything to reinstall, and that seems silly.

EDIT: FYI, sent an email to XS. I think I am just going to remove the mani and stick with OEM at the moment. This manifold is not correct and not worth the headache. I have about $550 into this manifold to try and get it working, not to mention who knows how much time installing and removing both this and every other component nearby to try and make it work. If XS decide to help me out and refund me or let me try another manifold of theirs, then awesome. We shall see

[dale_gribble]

So you couldn't get the dp lined up?

[MattJackson86]

No, it was all just too wonky. It seemed way too wrong having to keep dismantling down stream parts to make a Mani fit. Removed it for the final time and threw the oem Mani back on. It's night and day difference fitment wise. Never installed any other manis before, and oem was a breeze compared to xs power. The gasket looks perfect, everything just fits. I'll be starting it up in morning after a few more final pieces. It's time to enjoy the new turbo and not waste more time and money on a faulty part. I'll see if xs power email me back and keep you updated.

[Turbo_Steve]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 No, it was all just too wonky. It seemed way too wrong having to keep dismantling down stream parts to make a Mani fit. Removed it for the final time and threw the oem Mani back on. It's night and day difference fitment wise. Never installed any other manis before, and oem was a breeze compared to xs power. The gasket looks perfect, everything just fits. I'll be starting it up in morning after a few more final pieces. It's time to enjoy the new turbo and not waste more time and money on a faulty part. I'll see if xs power email me back and keep you updated.

I quote myself again.

Originally Posted by Turbo_Steve Drilling or slotting the bolt holes on the turbine flange of the manifold with a carbide bit and a die grinder to allow you to rotate the turbo 2 degrees will fix everything. It will also keep you from needing to dent your downpipie on the MS6. Most aftermarket manifolds, downpipies, etc have the bolt holes slightly oversized to allow for fitment adjustment. IIRC the bolt holes on my manifold were pretty tight. Being A MS3 I didn't notice any alignment issues with my install. If XS power sent these manifolds out with the holes on the turbine flange drilled 2mm bigger I am sure none of these alignment issues would be popping up. The V1 & V2 manifolds are being sold now by xs power heavily based off of the feedback of the initial test fitters. I had nothing come up with fitment on my MS3 and I did share info with XS power as such. It wasn't till after these manifolds are now being sold that some issues with fitment with certain aftermarket downpipes on the MS6 are coming up.

Running an aftermarket manifold, downpipe, and turbo gives you the highest possibility of fitment problems. Aftermarket stuff never really goes without some sort of issue. I do agree that it "should" all just bolt together without issue. The flanges "should" be completely flat. It is possible that your manifold is defective and severly off alignment. It sucks because I know how much of a pain these things are to install.

Let us know what xs power says though.

[MattJackson86]

Fast email response from xs power. Am talking over the issue with them and seeing what can be done.

I expect some issues for sure with after market, it always happens. But this Mani, for me, simply doesn't fit.

[Turbo_Steve]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 Fast email response from xs power. Am talking over the issue with them and seeing what can be done. I expect some issues for sure with after market, it always happens. But this Mani, for me, simply doesn't fit.

I emailed xs power about making a jig off of the stock manifold and using it to compare fitment on the v2 manifolds. He is sending me another v2 manifold to compare to for fitment. He said he forwarded you my email. I offered to put your manifold on my jig as well so we can check it out. Sounds like he wants to send you another manifold in the mean time.

I emailed him about wanting to help out with designing a V3 manifold some time back. Sounds like it is a go. We will make sure fitment is perfect. Make sure the flanges are 100% flat, and possibly have them all come standard with an ewg port and a block offf plate.

[MattJackson86]

Let me know if you need anything. I am going to mail this back to them tomorrow or Tuesday, but if they want it direct to you I can do that too. I'll be happy to test fit a future Mani if needed. I can swap these things out in no time it seems now. They did offer to send me a v1 while they sort it out but I said I'll just run oem as I don't "need" a Mani at the moment.

[Turbo_Steve]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 Let me know if you need anything. I am going to mail this back to them tomorrow or Tuesday, but if they want it direct to you I can do that too. I'll be happy to test fit a future Mani if needed. I can swap these things out in no time it seems now. They did offer to send me a v1 while they sort it out but I said I'll just run oem as I don't "need" a Mani at the moment.

I'll send you a pm

[dale_gribble]

I just got off the horn with my guy at the machine shop. He didn't go into detail because he was busy, suffice to say he said my header was in terrible shape surface wise on both surfaces and he would need it an extra day to get it right. I'll provide details tomorrow when he gives me the rundown.

FFFFUUUUUUUU............... Pretty fucked up no matter how you cut it. I guess some guys have had luck with this, I sure as shit wouldn't touch it again until I knew for sure they got this shit under control. If you are on the fence on this header, I would personally hold off and either save up for a better one or wait for to see if they can get this one under control. Again, it isn't a $600 or $900 header, but for $400, it should be at least usable out of the box. It's garbage right now.

This doesn't even consider the fact the turbo bracket won't work stock or the downpipe hits my driveshaft flange. I am calling it garbage straight based on fitment because I was willing to fix that other shit understanding that it is an aftermarket part and this is the game.

[El_Diablo]

Keep in mind, if you bolt it down as is and its already warped, it will only get worse over time.

[dale_gribble]

Ya, understand that. I guess I shouldn't have bolted mine up and had it machined out of the box; I guess when XS said they checked the flanges for flatness, I thought they meant both flanges. Just like how they said the headers were 421 stainless too I guess. I was lulled into a false sense of security because they said the addressed issues and another few of the early guys seemed to have 0 problems.

So, for anyone that is considering buying one of these, just find a local engine/machine shop and quote out machining the head and turbo flanges flat. Include that in the price of the header.