XS Power Turbo Manifold is here... Install pics & Dyno results to follow soon.

[MattJackson86]

and I still worry that flat isnt enough, I still think the geometry is wrong and thats the cause of some issues.

Mine has been sent back to be looked at. Email them and if they deal with you like they did me, then you should be set. I'm still out money and time, but overall the issue is being looked into and I definitely feel I will be taken care of as best as possible.

That being said, I would advise you all hold off buying one at the moment until we can all say for sure that quality control is performed on every single one. I think we just jumped in to early hoping that the couple successes would be for everyone.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 I think we just jumped in to early hoping that the couple successes would be for everyone.

Truth...

[El_Diablo]

If possible you guys may want to try and heat cycle the manifold a couple of times before machining it flat. A high temp oven would be best but I'm sure there are other methods that would sufice.

[dale_gribble]

I heat cycled mine to 1000F-1500F almost everyday for about a month.

I hope its settled by now.

[skiptowncat]

Mine fitted perfectly according to my mechanic, although he did have the benefit of having the engine on a stand when he did it.

[MattJackson86]

Downpipe on yet? If not, let's talk then

[Turbo_Steve]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Ya, understand that. I guess I shouldn't have bolted mine up and had it machined out of the box; I guess when XS said they checked the flanges for flatness, I thought they meant both flanges. Just like how they said the headers were 421 stainless too I guess. I was lulled into a false sense of security because they said the addressed issues and another few of the early guys seemed to have 0 problems. So, for anyone that is considering buying one of these, just find a local engine/machine shop and quote out machining the head and turbo flanges flat. Include that in the price of the header.

Based on your pics, you didn't have any leak or issue with the head flange. Not saying it's 100% perfect, but they did supposedly fix that issue.

I will say that both of the manifolds that have popped up now with warped / leaking turbine flanges had been ceramic coated. The heat from that process could have something to do with this issue.

[MattJackson86]

And not trying to pass the buck here, but if the heat cycling from ceramic coating did cause this, would a normal heat cycle of having it on the car also cause this or we think maybe not as it would have been bolted down at the time? If so, then that should definitely be noted somewhere that a heat cycle is necessary.

I think we will know more when my manifold is received and tested. We should be able to identify the issue and then see if its warped or if the flange is at incorrect angle to begin with or what. Should arrive on Friday.

[Turbo_Steve]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 would a normal heat cycle of having it on the car also cause this or we think maybe not as it would have been bolted down at the time? If so, then that should definitely be noted somewhere that a heat cycle is necessary.

It's a possibility. With the turbo bolted to the flange it is less likely to move under heat.

[dale_gribble]

Ok, good news on my end so far. I did get the manifold resurfaced. Interestingly, the machinist said the turbo flange was quite flat but the header flange was in pretty bad shape (even though mine didn't seem to leak at the head.) He said the manifold was a pretty heavy duty piece and of decent build.

Anyways, here's what I did. I started all new studs, new nuts and a new gasket. If you are installing this header, it is imperative that if your studs come out with the nuts, they are heat fused, and unless you can separate them, they need to be replaced.

To start, the downpipe was off the car and I disconnected the turbo from the coolant bracket at the front of the turbo inlet to give the turbo some more wiggle room. The turbo bracket was off.

I first cleaned the turbo threads with a tap and set the studs into the turbo using the 2 nut method and torqued to 35lb/ft. I used a shit load of copper antiseize.

Next, I set the manifold onto the head studs but didn't start any nuts.

I lined the turbo studs up with the manifold and joined the manifold and the turbo. I started the 4 nuts into the turbo. I continued to tighten the manifold to turbo nuts in an x pattern until all 4 were torqued to 37lb/ft. Again, I used a TON of antiseize on the nuts. Once the turbo and manifold were mated, I tightened the manifold onto the head studs with the 10 nuts there. I tightened slowly from the inside out until all of the nuts were torqued down.

Then, I surveyed the turbo bracket. I hacked it some more so the block side holes had up and down play, along with the turbo hole that I already hacked to give front/back play. I let the bracket kind of work its way into place, careful to see if the bracket was trying to torque the turbo. It didn't. I got enough play in the bracket where it found a good home between the turbo and block without loading the turbo. So, I am glad to say that I was able to retain the turbo bracket.

I then put my modded downpipe back on with new studs/nuts and a gasket.

Started her up and took her for a 20 mile run with some WOT passes and it is definitely leak free so far. The car is quieter and the exhaust sounds a little better.

I am kind of on the fence here. I want to blame the manifold completely (because its easy), but I suspect reusing the stock studs played a part as well as not joining the turbo to the manifold first. Again, it is imperative that the nuts can freely turn on the studs so the nuts torque to the flange and apply appropriate torque to the flange surface.

I'll update after I put some miles on.

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by Turbo_Steve I will say that both of the manifolds that have popped up now with warped / leaking turbine flanges had been ceramic coated. The heat from that process could have something to do with this issue.

I didn't notice that before but I would have to say its extremely likely that heat cycling these off of the car and not in a jig is what is warping them. Especially at the temps that some of the "ceramic" coatings are baked on at.

If you plan on coating your manifold it looks like you'll need to get it resurfaced after the coating has been applied.

[dale_gribble]

Fwiw, I proposed the same question to the machinist regarding baking for the coating vs. flanges and he didn't think that had anything to do with it.

This is a pretty massive piece of metal.

[MattJackson86]

And I did get mine resurfaced afterwards. So unless it wasn't surfaced well or at wrong angle, I dunno. Either way if it's necessary it should be done before being shipped out imo.

Good info and glad your leak free for the moment

[El_Diablo]

If you had yours resurfaced and still had issues than it wasn't tight enough or the machinist did a poor job. With the flange thickness on these manifolds warping when bolted down should not be an issue.

Heating up a part in an oven is a lot different than heating a part up underhood. Things react differently.

[xxdjfate76xx]

Depending on what ceramic coating process is used. Thin metal should only be partial cured at 400 degrees. Although this isn't thin metal, you may want to ask for partial curing when getting them ceramic coated. I spray cerakote all the time and it looks great, heat of the manifold on the car completes the cure cycle

[MattJackson86]

Originally Posted by El_Diablo If you had yours resurfaced and still had issues than it wasn't tight enough or the machinist did a poor job. With the flange thickness on these manifolds warping when bolted down should not be an issue. Heating up a part in an oven is a lot different than heating a part up underhood. Things react differently.

I still think on mine the angle is off. Mine wasn't a "flange isn't flat" issue (at least primarily), it was a turbo is sat incorrect angle and wouldn't close the gap to the flange. Once the DP was removed, I could rotate the turbo into position and the gap closed, but then the angle was off for my DP and it wouldn't connect. Anyways, results on my mani to come soon once its received and analyzed.

dale_gribble, did your mani need bolt hole enlarging too or was that all good? As mine needed that and that was meant to be corrected very early on, I wonder if I just got a super early mani that was forgotten about.

[dale_gribble]

I did not need to enlarge any holes on my manifold.

[dale_gribble]

200 mile update, my shit is leak free. Think I got it sorted out.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Have there been any in this thread that just bolted on & worked problem free?
Mine might have been the closest with only DP issues...

[Outlaw4shrt]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Have there been any in this thread that just bolted on & worked problem free? Mine might have been the closest with only DP issues...

mine, but I've had it since the beginning of May. no leaking, fitment, or downpipe issues.

[Turbo_Steve]

My install was pretty smooth. Now I have about 3,800 miles on the v2 and no issues, no leaking, no cracks, nothing. Just extra power.

I did build a jig and compared a v2 to stock and there is about a 2 degree rotation of the turbo. This can easily be corrected by simply enlarging or slotting the holes on the manifold. (should fix downpipie issues on the ms6 but not needed on the Ms3)

I have been in contact with XS Power about this and will be helping them work on a V3 manifold with improved fitment and it may even have an external wastegate option with a block off plate included. But it will realistically be a full year before this hits the market.

[MattJackson86]

So in short, the install issues are not due to ceramic coating or anything of that nature. The manifold was designed with a 2 degree turbo rotation that makes, at least for me, the install a royal pita, and for MS6 the downpipe will hit axle.

The procedure to install this manifold requires either modifying the holes to allow turbo to move backward? I still can not visualize how this will help as the flange on manifold is physically at a 2 degree angle off of OEM. Like I said, I could close my gap easily by leaving downpipe off of the turbo when installing, but getting the DP back on was impossible due to the rotation and the dp flange no longer lining up.

The other "solution" is to bolt the mani to the turbo first (with downpipe also attached) and then bolt the mani to the block and force everything into alignment? That seems really wrong and unacceptable to me.

This is nothing against Turbo_steve and his findings, this is just unacceptable in my opinion from XS Power. I will be interested in seeing if they continue to sell these as is or not. If not, they agree with me and that it is unacceptable. If they do, then just buyer beware of what you need to do to install.

[dale_gribble]

Sorry @Turbo_Steve;, I am with MattJackson on this one. Slotting the manifold makes does nothing to correct the surface to surface angle offset between the turbo and manifold. It could help with alignment, presuming the surfaces are flat between the turbo and manifold and the only offset is front/back or side/side but it definitely can't help with angle.

I can hear mine leaking a bit now when it's cold but it seals right up (like within 30 seconds of starting on a cold day). It's definitely not the turbo flange this time, I am suspecting the head flange or maybe its that damn EGT probe bolt. I'll retorque everything soon and see if something changed. Hopefully it doesn't get worse or I'll be forced to sell my header to some n00b and go stock again.

This header still doesn't get a buy recommendation from me. I would save for another option.

[MattJackson86]

Still yet to hear back from XS Power directly regarding my issues. Really just want to hear their thoughts on the matter and if they find the 2 degree shift acceptable and its "solutions" or not.

[dale_gribble]

Update from me: the leak I was hearing after my EM resurface was from not tightening my WB02 sensor enough; I was so scared to strip the threads on my new one after stripping the old one during removal that I didn't torque the new one down enough.

I tightened it down and my Turbo XS is totally leak free and has been for a few weeks. I am cautiously optimistic.

[skiptowncat]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Update from me: the leak I was hearing after my EM resurface was from not tightening my WB02 sensor enough; I was so scared to strip the threads on my new one after stripping the old one during removal that I didn't torque the new one down enough. I tightened it down and my Turbo XS is totally leak free and has been for a few weeks. I am cautiously optimistic.

Good to know.

[ledfootrob]

I have the V2 and had modify the oil drain as it was hitting the bottom heat shield, drill a new hole in the support bracket and my downpipe flex section is hitting the crossmember. I've tried bending the exhaust hangers which helped and put some washers on the crossmember but it still knocks. Also I've got a leak somewhere, my turbo isn't fully spooled until about 4500rpm when it was by 3500rpm before. I've tried everything to make this work but I im just gonna have to pull the manifold and put the stocker back on.

[TiGraySpeed6]

When you find the leak please do report back, and if possible include a pic or two

[MattJackson86]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 Still yet to hear back from XS Power directly regarding my issues. Really just want to hear their thoughts on the matter and if they find the 2 degree shift acceptable and its "solutions" or not.

Still no response to my email sent on 12/19. Hoping with holidays and my latest followup I will hear something.

[Mazdazilla6]

@TiGraySpeed6; @dale_gribble; @alphasaur;

I'm having some issues with the M2 downpipe hitting my driveshaft. I'm on the stock mani though. How are you guys denting it in more? Just smacking it with a sledge or are you heating it up first?

[dale_gribble]

I just hit mine with a weighted rubber mallet, unheated and took my time. I knocked that whole section a little at a time, about 6" total in length and indented about 1/4 inch or so. I think a metal mallet may be too aggressive. The last thing you want to do is crack the metal.

[Bolted6]

I used a torch to heat the area and tapped it in. It's easier off the vehicle.

[dale_gribble]

Ya, definitely off the car.

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 @TiGraySpeed6; @dale_gribble; @alphasaur; I'm having some issues with the M2 downpipe hitting my driveshaft. I'm on the stock mani though. How are you guys denting it in more? Just smacking it with a sledge or are you heating it up first?

Same as Dale. I just hit it with a weighted mallet as well in the area where it seems to be rubbing. I also just installed a cp-e exhaust which seemed to pull it over even more, so I found a cp-e downpipe. Hopefully this remedies my issue.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Geez, I'm such a brute.
I unplugged the O2 sensors, pulled the DP off the car and put some love taps on it with a 3lb mini sledge. Pic of the final result is around somewhere, I think earlier in this thread.

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by alphasaur Same as Dale. I just hit it with a weighted mallet as well in the area where it seems to be rubbing. I also just installed a cp-e exhaust which seemed to pull it over even more, so I found a cp-e downpipe. Hopefully this remedies my issue.

Yea I have a CS catback and I'm thinking it may be causing this or the poly hangers.

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Geez, I'm such a brute. I unplugged the O2 sensors, pulled the DP off the car and put some love taps on it with a 3lb mini sledge. Pic of the final result is around somewhere, I think earlier in this thread.

Haha okay I was unsure if it would crack by going at it without heat. I think I'm gonna take a torch to it and tap on it with my 2 lb sledge.

[MattJackson86]

So in regards to communicating with XS Power directly, not sure if they are out of office still or what but I have not had any communication with them regarding my issues or my manifold at all. At this point I am hoping for a refund on the manifold or at least to get it shipped back to me.

[ledfootrob]

I don't think this has been posted yet. Here is the difference between stock and XS V2 manifold, shows how much your turbo is moved and also the turbo flange is angled towards the block.
I had to remove mine as it was leaking at the turbo flange enough that my spool up was 1000rpm slower to hit 20psi, also my downpipe was knocking on the crossmember. Im trying to get a refund through paypal on this as i'm really not happy with having to modify everything else connected to the manifold for it to fit properly. Copper spray was used during install on OEM gaskets.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Thanks for posting those pics-

They make the differences remarkably clear

[glockman25]

Maybe I'm crazy but mine seems to be sealed in my genpu. I do nor have bottom turbo mount on though

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