ZOOM & KABOOM

[Stealth01]

Originally Posted by Lex Sounds like you could really use a tune. The stock tune is very aggressive and still doesn't deliver great power - so it's aggressive in the wrong ways you can say.

To this man you should listen, paduan.

OP: I've attached a log from a 3rd gear pull I did today. Note how even with the OEM HPFP, Fuel Pressure remains at 1600+ through the entire pull. Anything less is bad ju-ju. I'm a total noob to this tuning shit, but that much at least Lex has taught me. He is my Obi-Wan.

I was thinking about KMDs, since I can get a really good deal on them, but not so sure after all these failures. Still, at this elevation, the stock HPFP is doing just fine. For now.

[17cak]

do u guys think kmd should atleast replace my internals for free?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by 17cak do u guys think kmd should atleast replace my internals for free?

Take them out carefully and inspect. You might see the issue with the naked eye. Write a nice letter, supply a datalog, and show pictures. They will probably replace them - just state your case clearly and provide evidence.

[kunfu]

This scares the shit out of me. Reminds me that my car is first and foremost my daily driver. I look forward to the day that I have a daily driver that is different from my "have fun car".

[Tokay444]

And remember, you get more bees with sugar than with vinigar.
Suck enough cock and you might get a new motor out of them (doubtful).

[Eric28243]

This is indeed doubtful but at their fairly high rate of failure if you're very nice about it they might do... I dunno something for you. Entrusting your entire engine to something so tiny is a big deal.

[Stealth01]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 And remember, you get more bees with sugar than with vinigar. Suck enough cock and you might get a new motor out of them (doubtful).

Very doubtful, since they still don't rate those for our platform. Just for VW 2.0s.

[17cak]

thanks alot fellas. and yeah this is my daily driver too.. not only that, but my first investment after college. i have a lot of blood and sweat dedicated to this vehicle (mainly the dp) and now im stuck driving my grandmas buick. HOLLA

[keymaster]

Originally Posted by Stealth01 ANy vibes in the clutch pedal? Seriously, if it's knocking so much you can hear it, stop going WOT and get it looked at.

No vibrations in the clutch pedal. And, I have taken it in to be looked at, complete with data logs off the Dashhawk plotted out...and, of course, I couldn't get it to reproduce the knock despite everything I tried, and they just shrugged off the plots. Did it perfectly when I hit the highway on the way home, as is usually the case when trying to show the dealer something. So, I gave in...I have an AP that I should get around to installing and then see if I can work out what happens and tune around it so it quits knocking so much, or just be ready for it to blow and build a motor.

This reminds me that it's time to pull the plugs and check them, maybe they will show something finally (never have before though). I really do wonder...everyone around here talks about how their engine knocked and blew, and mine just keeps on going. I figure it will survive until the warranty is up in October.

[radioflyer]

dido on the cock sucking, got me a new motor from mazda.

[taf0422]

sorry to hear about the car op. while you have your motor out you can take out the front grille as well. lol.

Hopefully you will get it back up and running soon..

Speaking of full pumps. I have a PTP fuel pump going for over 40K miles and it is still pumping out 1800-1900 psi

Just a thought.

[17cak]

Originally Posted by taf0422 sorry to hear about the car op. while you have your motor out you can take out the front grille as well. lol. Hopefully you will get it back up and running soon.. Speaking of full pumps. I have a PTP fuel pump going for over 40K miles and it is still pumping out 1800-1900 psi Just a thought.

the grill adds 20 hp.. somethin u would know nothin about!!!!

[mituc]

Now I'm wondering how much time or how many pulls it takes for the damage to appear when the FRP drops at WOT?

[taf0422]

Originally Posted by 17cak the grill adds 20 hp.. somethin u would know nothin about!!!!

lol. you got me there.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

I personally think that boost spike happens after the destruction has begun, and is either some sort of back pressure or some sort of blockage cause a higher reading at the MAP sensor. If someone see's a flaw this possibility let me know.

Originally Posted by keymaster Sorry for your loss OP, good luck with the rebuild. Stuff like this makes me worry...my car at WOT continually knocks, I've seen 7-8 on the Dashhawk and I can hear the pings. Doesn't always happen, but it happens enough that I'm pretty careful when I go for it. I get knocking at partial throttle too in high load situations. But, when I log with the Dahhawk the boost, AFR and fuel pressure look normal, no spikes or anything even when it knocks. This was the way it was stock, and all I've added is a SRI, TIP and step colder plugs, and the car didn't look like it had any mods done when I bought it and I haven't found anything yet. I'm just waiting for the engine to decide to blow one day.

Originally Posted by keymaster No vibrations in the clutch pedal. And, I have taken it in to be looked at, complete with data logs off the Dashhawk plotted out...and, of course, I couldn't get it to reproduce the knock despite everything I tried, and they just shrugged off the plots. Did it perfectly when I hit the highway on the way home, as is usually the case when trying to show the dealer something. So, I gave in...I have an AP that I should get around to installing and then see if I can work out what happens and tune around it so it quits knocking so much, or just be ready for it to blow and build a motor. This reminds me that it's time to pull the plugs and check them, maybe they will show something finally (never have before though). I really do wonder...everyone around here talks about how their engine knocked and blew, and mine just keeps on going. I figure it will survive until the warranty is up in October.

I hate thread jacking, do you have a thread on any of this? If you are getting audible KR while WOT, don't go WOT. Don't just wait for your engine to blow, unless you just have money sitting around that you want to blow, in which case why not just rebuild it now? The PT KR you are getting, is that while cruising on the highway?

[polysynth]

Originally Posted by GLORIFIEDBOZO I personally think that boost spike happens after the destruction has begun, and is either some sort of back pressure or some sort of blockage cause a higher reading at the MAP sensor. If someone see's a flaw this possibility let me know.

Very possible. This is what Phate said in a previous post as well, and we see a knock right before the boost spike. So that means the spike is a result of some other issue. What caused that knock prior to the spike we don't know, but our best guess at this point is probably the fuel pump.

I think in order for us to confirm whether or not the fuel pump cause the engine blow is to look at the spark plug. Because previous knocks caused by low FP pressure would show up on the spark plugs. Phate said the spark plug looks fine when he pulled it out prior to the engine blow, but i think it's worth a closer look though. WOT knock appear at the base ceramic of the center electrode, which isn't easily spotted unless we intentionally look for it.

[phate]

Originally Posted by polysynth Very possible. This is what Phate said in a previous post as well, and we see a knock right before the boost spike. So that means the spike is a result of some other issue. What caused that knock prior to the spike we don't know, but our best guess at this point is probably the fuel pump. I think in order for us to confirm whether or not the fuel pump cause the engine blow is to look at the spark plug. Because previous knocks caused by low FP pressure would show up on the spark plugs. Phate said the spark plug looks fine when he pulled it out prior to the engine blow, but i think it's worth a closer look though. WOT knock appear at the base ceramic of the center electrode, which isn't easily spotted unless we intentionally look for it.

Yeah, I checked out the plugs under my dual 1k watt halogens when we had them out, haha. I am positive there wasn't any spackling. I am also positive there wasn't any audible detonation prior to the event. I've heard detonation in my own MS3 (and other cars) as a result of bad gas and extreme BAT's, so I'm familiar with the sound.

[Onelovesoccer]

sorry to hear OP! subbed for results as well

[keymaster]

Originally Posted by GLORIFIEDBOZO I hate thread jacking, do you have a thread on any of this? If you are getting audible KR while WOT, don't go WOT. Don't just wait for your engine to blow, unless you just have money sitting around that you want to blow, in which case why not just rebuild it now? The PT KR you are getting, is that while cruising on the highway?

I think I put a thread up a year or so ago with the plots, don't recall for sure.

It's not all the time, and it doesn't just happen at WOT. If I'm on the highway, I'll give it a bit of gas to make a pass and have it knock to 7+ with audible pinging. When I got a log on that one time, I saw that the boost and TP had jumped up as if I had floored it when I knew I hadn't. At WOT, I don't hear the pings, but I'll see the 7+ KR. I also see low KR just tooling around town, but I think that's not real.

It's just honestly strange, because everything runs perfectly fine except for this issue, and that happens intermittently enough that I can't really nail down the exact conditions to reproduce it. If it wasn't for the pings I hear I'd think the sensor was faulty or picking something up...maybe the pings aren't detonation but something else. It would be nice to get a video of it.....

[phate]

Originally Posted by keymaster I think I put a thread up a year or so ago with the plots, don't recall for sure. It's not all the time, and it doesn't just happen at WOT. If I'm on the highway, I'll give it a bit of gas to make a pass and have it knock to 7+ with audible pinging. When I got a log on that one time, I saw that the boost and TP had jumped up as if I had floored it when I knew I hadn't. At WOT, I don't hear the pings, but I'll see the 7+ KR. I also see low KR just tooling around town, but I think that's not real. It's just honestly strange, because everything runs perfectly fine except for this issue, and that happens intermittently enough that I can't really nail down the exact conditions to reproduce it. If it wasn't for the pings I hear I'd think the sensor was faulty or picking something up...maybe the pings aren't detonation but something else. It would be nice to get a video of it.....

Fuel quality is HUGE in these cars - that's my first thought for your case. If you can revive your thread and link us here, as to not derail this thread, we could revisit.

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by silvapain Phate sent me a text about your car today 17CAK. I'll come down next Saturday and help you and Phate pull that engine. Tapadatass

when you going down/coming back?

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by xfeejayx when you going down/coming back?

I'm heading down there around 11AM on Saturday and coming back up sometime Sunday morning.


Tapadatass

[djuosnteisn]

Shitty.... looks like Phate got to the car too late.

The car seems to have had several issues in recent past... dropping fuel pressure, high boost, KR, etc.... and that was likely even worse in the colder months, and running an OTS map, without any KR bandaid above 5700 rpm...


GL OP, and sorry for the trouble.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by GLORIFIEDBOZO I personally think that boost spike happens after the destruction has begun, and is either some sort of back pressure or some sort of blockage cause a higher reading at the MAP sensor. If someone see's a flaw this possibility let me know. I hate thread jacking, do you have a thread on any of this? If you are getting audible KR while WOT, don't go WOT. Don't just wait for your engine to blow, unless you just have money sitting around that you want to blow, in which case why not just rebuild it now? The PT KR you are getting, is that while cruising on the highway?

Audible knock.
Not audible knock retard.

[MSMS3]

Guys, correct me if mistaken. Doesn't the stock MAP sensor scaling end at about 22 psi? If so, wouldn't the sensor report 22 and no higher even if boost was way higher? If OP was monitoring and seeing 22 psi in the past and was not using a manual boost gauge, then his reported overboost may have been much much higher than 22. Just a thought.

Overboost coupled with low WOT fuel pressure under load is a recipe for fail, either instantly or one small step at a time.

And you guys are spot on in concluding that low fuel pressure under load probably had a cumulative effect. Persistent low atomization, wide pulsewidth fuel pooling would lead to the eventual zoom, zoom, boom.

The more recent WOT pulls were just the straw that broke the camel's back, IMHO.

I defer to the experts here. But I think taking a good hard look at the top of the pistions and the top ring lands on tear down will tell us a lot about what happened.

[silvapain]

Yes, the stock MAP sensor is 2.5 Bar = ~36.3 Psia, which is about 21.5-22.0 Psig at this elevation.


Tapadatass

[taf0422]

I know my stock map sensor would boost cut if it went above or hit 23 psi but it could run >22.8 with no issue.

[radioflyer]

Fuel quality is HUGE in these cars - that's my first thought for your case. If you can revive your thread and link us here, as to not derail this thread, we could revisit. [/B]

Pretty sure this had a lot to do with my blown motor. I was going to this shitty little gas station with the cheapest shit in town, amongst other issues (driver mod included). I watch my KR and fuel trims like a hawk now, let the motor warm up completely, don't load the turbo in 6th under 3k etc.

[keymaster]

I can't do much about my fuel quality, I live in SoCal and I've never had the car anywhere that saw better than 91 octane. I at least take it to good gas stations, so I don't think bad gas is the issue.

It looks like I never put a thread up...I'll do that once I get to spend some more time working on this and see if I can find something new. Sorry for the derail, back to hoping the OP can get things put back together and running.

[XxSPUDxX]

I understand about 1/2 of what is being said in this thread.

[HPFPUPGRADE]

Wow, you see so few of these engine let up under WOT and in the upper RPM band.

Did the OP still have the BS in the engine?

[Chimmike]

Another block bites the dust

too bad we can't save these blocks by re-sleeving and reinforcing the hole

[kunfu]

Originally Posted by HPFPUPGRADE Wow, you see so few of these engine let up under WOT and in the upper RPM band. Did the OP still have the BS in the engine?

Is their a point that you recommend removing the BS. For example if making X number of HP remove the BS.

[phate]

Originally Posted by HPFPUPGRADE Wow, you see so few of these engine let up under WOT and in the upper RPM band. Did the OP still have the BS in the engine?

Yeah, almost all of the stories are either low rpm with lots of boost or just cruising away from a stop :/

I would think the engine still had a balance shaft (it ran very smoothly with no vibes), but we'll know for certain Saturday.

[HPFPUPGRADE]

Originally Posted by kunfu Is their a point that you recommend removing the BS. For example if making X number of HP remove the BS.

Ya, stock.

Its all about oil control and the gear driving oil into the PCV system. To much oil in the PCV system = knock, detonation and on the rare occasion... oil hydro-lock.

Originally Posted by phate Yeah, almost all of the stories are either low rpm with lots of boost or just cruising away from a stop :/ I would think the engine still had a balance shaft (it ran very smoothly with no vibes), but we'll know for certain Saturday.

Yes, very rare to see one blow up top.

Let me know what you find out on the BS.

[17cak]

ignore this pic guys im uploading this for a guy who contacted me about where i welded on my cat

[17cak]

when i went to put in the KMDs we noticed that the pump had been removed for some reason? and as far as i know i still have the balance shaft

[KevMS6]

Is it a big job removing BS?
Never good reading about this

Good luck getting it back on the road

[HPFPUPGRADE]

Originally Posted by kevstewart• Is it a big job removing BS? Never good reading about this Good luck getting it back on the road

4 hours on your back in the driveway or 2 with a lift and air tools. Just make sure you do it during an oil change and have a few cans of brake cleaner handy.

[17cak]

sorry for the labeling problem with all these photos. but today we pulled the block to take a look.. thanks to all the guys who came to help today btw! clint and daniel can elaborate more on the damage for everyone