Zoom Zoom Boom again?!? WTF!

[btstarcher]

Lots of slack in my timing chain.....

[breakfstincluded]

gawd I hate seeing that highway cruise KR. it's always less than 1, but it frequently happens to me if I've been cruising the highway for quit a while, and if I speed up I'll see the KR on my dashhawk and I'll backoff. It really does seem fuel economy related.

Shit needs a different warning for non-urgent knock lol

[Lex]

Wasn't there a thread about there being something wrong with your engine/compression a while ago OP?

BTW, I don't get much PT knock at all. Just when the car is cold as the knock sensor comes into play when ECTs rise up to temp. Aside from that I don't really see PT knock and I have 45k miles on an 08.5 MS3.

I also don't think PT knock is an indication that the engine will blow. Very heavy knock on tip-in after cruising on the highway accompanied with a smokescreen and the car hesitating is more worrisome and I used to get that before the days of tuning.

[Fatguy729]

You should look at your injector seals

[3Gee Tee]

So are you guys suggesting that it was a bad build?


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[TiGraySpeed6]

just curious, what do you're timing tables look like?

I never see partial throttle kr & all I've done is follow buckers guide- 2 up & 2 down.

[btstarcher]

This wasn't a built motor...unless you consider built by Mazda "built" LOL

[predapio]

When you have KR of 8.1 ,come see me.

I ended up with cracked ringlands in cyl 3 .

Good luck.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Lex Wasn't there a thread about there being something wrong with your engine/compression a while ago OP? BTW, I don't get much PT knock at all. Just when the car is cold as the knock sensor comes into play when ECTs rise up to temp. Aside from that I don't really see PT knock and I have 45k miles on an 08.5 MS3. I also don't think PT knock is an indication that the engine will blow. Very heavy knock on tip-in after cruising on the highway accompanied with a smokescreen and the car hesitating is more worrisome and I used to get that before the days of tuning.

yes he had trouble consuming oil IIRC and the compression check came out ok. The PT cruise KR at low load/RPM can be induced by VVT increasing the dynamic compression ratio and on a heat soaked motor leads to high KR count. Steeling this theory from @Lex since it is his but could be relevant.

[btstarcher]

The past few oil changes I didn't have excessive consumption. In the past I just added oil when it was low; I never really did a quantitative analysis. Since I get about an oil change every month I decided to see how much I actually added and kept track of the miles; I added about a half quart at around 4k miles. For some reason it seemed like a lot more before I got into modding...but back then I didn't pay as much attention to the details.

[Boost_creep]

I'm sorry to hear this, Ben. I hope everything works out for the best.

I hate to say it, but I have a feeling your "issue" in your last thread, never really went away and the e-mix you were using was just masking it.

[btstarcher]

It's possible, but I went through quite a few tanks of regular 93 octane and everything did seem fine. I did just replace my O2 sensor, it failed a couple weeks ago. My AFR's have been fine, been meeting boost targets, and no knock (after replacing my plugs).

[btstarcher]

I poured water into my reservoir, it leaked out at presumably the same place the oil was leaking...somewhere at the back of the engine. I can't see the leak, just where it drips. Today I'm getting some jackstands so I can hopefully get my fat ass under the car and see a little more. Yiming chain is definitely loose, lots of play in it. Doesn't feel like there's any tension at all.

[3Gee Tee]

So what are your plans now?

Rebuild?

[Chimmike]

Originally Posted by helmetfail @jonspeed3 is your signature(s) big enough holmes?

because gay Broward lover.

[DiGi Faggot]

Originally Posted by 3Gee Tee So what are your plans now? Rebuild?

Sure as shit hope hes planning forged components now.

[3Gee Tee]

I hope so.

[meicalnissyen]

Originally Posted by helmetfail @jonspeed3 is your signature(s) big enough holmes?

No,... But his avatar is ample

[btstarcher]

Time to wakey wakey...not sure what my plans are at this point. Probably need to get me a daily driver first. Then I will have the luxury of time to save more $ and get forged components. Do it right this time.

I still need to determine if it's gonna need a new block. My brother was supposed to bring me some jackstands but he failed as usual.

[3Gee Tee]

Good luck man.

What scares me is that you're not even that heavily modded yet still experienced this, twice.

[jack_hammer]

Originally Posted by btstarcher Time to wakey wakey...not sure what my plans are at this point. Probably need to get me a daily driver first. Then I will have the luxury of time to save more $ and get forged components. Do it right this time. I still need to determine if it's gonna need a new block. My brother was supposed to bring me some jackstands but he failed as usual.

lol... dude you really need to start acquiring basic garage tools

[btstarcher]

Oh I know this...LOL!

I got the VC off, wanted to check the tension of the timing chain. There's about a half inch of slack in it, maybe a tiny bit more. It does feel looser than it did the last time I checked it. So then I went to grab a towel to cover the exposed engine and this little bastard scooted out and onto my arm...

[3Gee Tee]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!

I see some spider guts though lol.

[btstarcher]

Yeah I killed that muthafucka! You'll never see a fat man move that fast!

[speed0450]

First blown motor. Second blown motor. Third black widow. I hope your luck changes for the better.

[3Gee Tee]

Yeah your life almost went ZZB.

[btstarcher]

Well now I have a DD....my parents let me borrow their Ford Fusion so I could start saving for the repairs. A local member is gonna move it to his shop Sunday night, so I will know more then. Hopefully it won't take too long to save enough to build the engine (and that Omar doesn't mind keeping the car while I save...LOL). At least in December I'll get an extra paycheck.

[snailD]

shit man that blows. best of luck in the future.

as far as pt knock is concerned, i was under the impression that this was the reason gen2's got revised pistons, and also why they changed the pcv system.

[jack_hammer]

did i miss what exactly is the problem?

[Dano]

missing the driver mod.

[btstarcher]

I'll know more Sunday....

[kimura]

regarding the Gen 1 part throttle KR issue, I posted this in another thread:

I used to get the typical PT KR all the time. especially getting on the highway in the morning before the car was fully warmed up. was an everyday occurrence to see 3-5* KR at PT

it went away completely after I did EGR delete, coolant bypass + gasket, TIG, injector seals, VTCS delete and OCC.

I run my DH all the time and I have it set up to alert me whenever I get KR over 1*

no more PT KR. I'm guessing the EGR is the culprit but I really don't know because I did so many mods at once

I went from seeing PT KR every single day to never seeing it at all

[btstarcher]

Looking at my logs the KR I saw was between 2700 and 3200 rpm's, and it was around 2 to 4; I think even higher a couple times. Load was around .42 in every instance. Timing at that rpm for that load is around 40 degrees advanced. Maybe it's too much? Any other ideas?

I mean considering I was at partial throttle in both cases of ZZB there must be something there...

[Butterybunz]

I did an EGR delete and it gave me MORE pt knock

[3Gee Tee]

Yeah I read that one of the purposes of the EGR is to reduce knock tendency of an engine...

[Dano]

Originally Posted by btstarcher Looking at my logs the KR I saw was between 2700 and 3200 rpm's, and it was around 2 to 4; I think even higher a couple times. Load was around .42 in every instance. Timing at that rpm for that load is around 40 degrees advanced. Maybe it's too much? Any other ideas? I mean considering I was at partial throttle in both cases of ZZB there must be something there...

nah..ZZB has no direct correlation to any PT operation. Think about it, you are at WOT maybe .99% of the time and the rest of the time you are at PT so of course you are more likely to go boom at PT. It is all the WOT runs that puts the stress on the rods and they can let go at any time.

PT KR esp at your load values would not cause any damage. There is simply not enough pressure in the cylinder for detonation to cause any harm to the bearings or rods.

[btstarcher]

What if it increased too rapidly, and timing was still high? I've never logged this; I have no idea how quickly load ramps up from say 20% throttle to 40% or 60% or whatever. Damn I wish I had my AP plugged in; it's usually logging and I delete when I get to where I'm going.

[kimura]

Originally Posted by 3Gee Tee Yeah I read that one of the purposes of the EGR is to reduce knock tendency of an engine...

the main purpose of EGR is to reduce NOx emissions

EGR can in some cases reduce the likelihood of knock by lowering combustion temps but I don't know how relevant that is on our DI engines. The 1700PSI+ fuel atomization may already lower combustion temps enough on its own

EGR slows combustion by introducing inert gas. this can be mitigated by advancing timing. perhaps that compensatory timing advance contributes to the part throttle KR.

I may be grasping here. and my loss of PT KR may have nothing to do with EGR. but the fact remains that I no longer see ANY part throttle KR after doing those mods

[Dano]

as load goes up timing drops...rapidly.

I don't believe PT KR is the cause of your ZZB...or anyone's for that matter. Need to look elsewhere.

WOT KR on the other hand can kill a motor real quickly...but would take numerous runs to weaken the rods and that type of KR would destroy the plugs first. Have you looked at your plugs?

loading up the motor at low RPM high TQ will as well.

Originally Posted by kimura the main purpose of EGR is to reduce NOx emissions EGR can in some cases reduce the likelihood of knock by lowering combustion temps but I don't know how relevant that is on our DI engines. The 1700PSI+ fuel atomization may already lower combustion temps enough on its own EGR slows combustion by introducing inert gas. this can be mitigated by advancing timing. perhaps that compensatory timing advance contributes to the part throttle KR. I may be grasping here. and my loss of PT KR may have nothing to do with EGR. but the fact remains that I no longer see ANY part throttle KR after doing those mods

the problem with all that on a performance application is the "inert" gas is laden with oil and unburnt gases that contaminate the combustion charge which actually leads to detonation.

you are already pushing the motor to the limit of deto on clean high octane fuel and adding other BS to the charge is no good.

[kimura]

Originally Posted by Dano the problem with all that on a performance application is the "inert" gas is laden with oil and unburnt gases that contaminate the combustion charge which actually leads to detonation.

so perhaps the EGR delete might in fact reduce PT KR?

either way, I tend to agree that KR at very low loads is unlikely to cause ZZB