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 Old 11-04-2018, 12:09 PM   #1
 
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Default 2ND TO 3RD UPSHIFT

2nd to 3rd gear up shift issues caused by short shifter? Installed a CorkSport unit and now the problem has showed up.
Hard to shift or totally not able to.
Is this some kind of shift cable alignment issue ?
Rear engine mount is stock , but still solid (tested with prybar)
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 Old 11-04-2018, 06:17 PM   #2
 
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Originally Posted by stariondriver View Post
2nd to 3rd gear up shift issues caused by short shifter? Installed a CorkSport unit and now the problem has showed up.
Hard to shift or totally not able to.
Is this some kind of shift cable alignment issue ?
Rear engine mount is stock , but still solid (tested with prybar)
The rear engine mount was never solid even when new. Replacing it with something stiffer has been mod #1 on MS3 cars. On a car now this old that has the original mount and never replaced, it's got to be worn out. A common fix is an OEM Ford Focus mount if you don't like engine vibration at idle. Lots of stiffer options, too.

Not saying that is the problem, you may have a shift cable issue, but difficult 2-3 upshift has often been a problem with the stock RMM from day 1, even with the stock shifter.
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 Old 11-04-2018, 07:06 PM   #3
 
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Adjust the shifter cable. Lots of threads about it. Makes all the difference in the world with shifting.
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 Old 11-04-2018, 07:28 PM   #4
 
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Originally Posted by speed23 View Post
Adjust the shifter cable. Lots of threads about it. Makes all the difference in the world with shifting.
Have not seen those.
I have adjust the freeplay where it can be adjusted (driving with shift boot off to confirm adjustment)
Is there some other adjustment ?

Back when I was lurking on here I though I had found a thread on it being a problem from the engine movement changing the cable geometry, wich makes sense as it only does it when really getting on it
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 Old 11-07-2018, 03:39 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by stariondriver View Post
Have not seen those.
I have adjust the freeplay where it can be adjusted (driving with shift boot off to confirm adjustment)
Is there some other adjustment ?

Back when I was lurking on here I though I had found a thread on it being a problem from the engine movement changing the cable geometry, wich makes sense as it only does it when really getting on it
Then you did what you could already.
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 Old 11-07-2018, 05:56 PM   #6
 
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I saw no shifting improvement with stiffer mounts. I still occasionally miss 3rd when agressively shifting, but maybe I'm an idiot.

The cable geometry doesn't change with engine movement in the bay. The cables are a fixed length and solidly mounted to the trans. If there was any "flex" at all, you would be able to see the shift knob moving around as you get on or let off the gas. Or if your hand is on the shifter, you would feel it moving around. I'm not talking about vibes either.
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 Old 11-07-2018, 08:10 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
I saw no shifting improvement with stiffer mounts. I still occasionally miss 3rd when agressively shifting, but maybe I'm an idiot.

The cable geometry doesn't change with engine movement in the bay. The cables are a fixed length and solidly mounted to the trans. If there was any "flex" at all, you would be able to see the shift knob moving around as you get on or let off the gas. Or if your hand is on the shifter, you would feel it moving around. I'm not talking about vibes either.
I've ground 3rd too may times to count. I'm surprised in still goes into gear lol, but I do notice an improvement in shift quality and or shift precision with the JBR trilogy.

This transmission doesn't seem to like rushed high rpm shifting in general.
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 Old 11-07-2018, 08:24 PM   #8
 
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Have you upgraded the shifter bushings?

JBR version as an example:

Solid Shifter Base Bushings [MZ3MS3SSB] - $25.00 : James Barone Racing, Aftermarket Performance
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 Old 11-07-2018, 10:39 PM   #9
 
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I've done that as well and only noticed more vibes in the shifter. Not bothered by it though.
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 Old 11-08-2018, 12:29 AM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
I saw no shifting improvement with stiffer mounts. I still occasionally miss 3rd when agressively shifting, but maybe I'm an idiot.

The cable geometry doesn't change with engine movement in the bay. The cables are a fixed length and solidly mounted to the trans. If there was any "flex" at all, you would be able to see the shift knob moving around as you get on or let off the gas. Or if your hand is on the shifter, you would feel it moving around. I'm not talking about vibes either.
No , it would move the shifter base with the shift lever and cable as on , as the cable housing would be the main thing being pushed/pulled, and the cable housing is anchor to the shift base, which does move a bit under hard decel/ accel .

Think about it , the cable housing in anchored to the trans at on end, and on the other end anchored to the shift housing, so the cable and the housing would get stretched as one if the engine/trans was moving.
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 Old 11-08-2018, 03:37 AM   #11
 
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When i upgraded to a twm and tranny jizz i stopped missing gears. I never really gave it much thought untill i read your thread but i ground the 2-3 shift a lot until i put the new juice in and a twm. Now 3rd at its worst is like punching a soft pumpkin instead of grinding but it goes in. The only grind i got was from me not pushing the clutch down all the way. I would 100 percent swap the fluid and try adjusting the cables again. Maby you adjusted then badly or biased the adjustment towards the 4-5 and 5-6 shifts?

A rmm can help its proven.

As far as cable shifters not being affected by engine movment i dont believe that for a second. If they dont get affected then why is a bar linkage style shifter so superior to a cable? Cables stretch, the inside diamiter of the cable housing can be to big or overtime wear allowing the braided cable to flop/become wavey allowing play when the it is compressed, they can bind/break and they are imprecise ect..
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 Old 11-08-2018, 06:32 AM   #12
 
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The improvement i got with rmm on my speed3, 3gs and sky wasn't about grinding gear or not but more about getting the shift position easier. Without, you need to anticipate the shifter movement and apply the offset to the shifting position. Just keep your hand on the stick in first gear, let off gaz and then floor it, you will see it moving without a solide RMM.

That thing about adjusting cables is interesting, i sometimes hit a position between 1 and 3 while trying to shift in third with my 2012 skyactive. (No grind but hitting a wall where it should enter) i will check if i can do something. I was telling to myself it is because i'm used to the speed shifter but it may be that.

The oil help a lot too, especially in cold weather. up north, my speed3 was going forward in neutral when i release the cluth under a -20-30C and with the ford special xt something, -30 was almost like shifthing in summer time...
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 Old 11-08-2018, 07:02 AM   #13
 
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My 2-3 shift is as you describe. Not grinding, but hitting a wall. Only happens occasionally, so I think it's ME, not the trans/shifter/cables/etc.
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1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 11-08-2018, 12:29 PM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury View Post
When i upgraded to a twm and tranny jizz i stopped missing gears. I never really gave it much thought untill i read your thread but i ground the 2-3 shift a lot until i put the new juice in and a twm. Now 3rd at its worst is like punching a soft pumpkin instead of grinding but it goes in. The only grind i got was from me not pushing the clutch down all the way. I would 100 percent swap the fluid and try adjusting the cables again. Maby you adjusted then badly or biased the adjustment towards the 4-5 and 5-6 shifts?

A rmm can help its proven.

As far as cable shifters not being affected by engine movment i dont believe that for a second. If they dont get affected then why is a bar linkage style shifter so superior to a cable? Cables stretch, the inside diamiter of the cable housing can be to big or overtime wear allowing the braided cable to flop/become wavey allowing play when the it is compressed, they can bind/break and they are imprecise ect..
Nice .
So I assume by "tranny jizz"you mean the ford synthetic fluid?
Googled it and it came up something quite different LOL
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 Old 11-08-2018, 02:17 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
My 2-3 shift is as you describe. Not grinding, but hitting a wall. Only happens occasionally, so I think it's ME, not the trans/shifter/cables/etc.
I do the same thing on occasion. Though I think it's my long ass arms and this fucking armrest that is too tall. My elbow hits it constantly and I'm very conscious of it when shifting to 3rd.

Wish there was a center console delete trim piece available like the Integra Type-R's had.
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 Old 11-09-2018, 08:54 PM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury View Post
Maby you adjusted then badly or biased the adjustment towards the 4-5 and 5-6 shifts?
How can that happen? I mean it's just a slack adjustment correct?
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 Old 11-10-2018, 04:03 PM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by stariondriver View Post
How can that happen? I mean it's just a slack adjustment correct?
The adjustment changes the left to right motion of the shifter. You can adjust it to the left or the right. It has nothing to do with takeing up slack.
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 Old 11-11-2018, 11:41 AM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury View Post
The adjustment changes the left to right motion of the shifter. You can adjust it to the left or the right. It has nothing to do with takeing up slack.
Yes but a 2nd to 3rd gear shift requires no left to right motion in the shifter

My question was how does adjustment at that point favor a certain gear selection as you mentioned. What sort of adjustment will favor what type of gear gear change?

You said
"Maby you adjusted then badly or biased the adjustment towards the 4-5 and 5-6 shifts?"

That i what I am asking about

And by the way it does also remove slack.
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 Old 11-11-2018, 12:46 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by stariondriver View Post
Yes but a 2nd to 3rd gear shift requires no left to right motion in the shifter
Maby you should figure out how a shifter works dude....

1st and 2nd are towards the driver..........
3rd and 4th are in the rest position.....
5th and 6th are towards the passenger....

If you dont move the shifter to the right when going from 2nd to 3rd or 4 to 5th thats called a money shift. Ill save you the trouble of posting a picture if a shift pattern.

It dosent remove slack it changes where the position of the shifter attaches to the cable. So what do you call slack.... if you adjust it you still have play in the neutral position before the cable moves.
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 Old 11-11-2018, 06:11 PM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury View Post
Maby you should figure out how a shifter works dude....

1st and 2nd are towards the driver..........
3rd and 4th are in the rest position.....
5th and 6th are towards the passenger....

If you dont move the shifter to the right when going from 2nd to 3rd or 4 to 5th thats called a money shift. Ill save you the trouble of posting a picture if a shift pattern.

It dosent remove slack it changes where the position of the shifter attaches to the cable. So what do you call slack.... if you adjust it you still have play in the neutral position before the cable moves.

Wow you fucking punk , I know where the gears are you condescending shit pile.


Can you shut the fuck up with the insults and explain what you meant by the shifts being biased and how the adjustment effects it? I doubt you can because you prolly made it up....but please do prove me wrong.

"money shift" is a BS term and is in reference to down shifting any, read my opening post I said from 2nd to 3rd , which is an upshift.

Take your own advice before talking trash
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 Old 11-11-2018, 06:52 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by stariondriver View Post
a 2nd to 3rd gear shift requires no left to right motion in the shifter.
That's crazy talk.
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 Old 11-11-2018, 06:59 PM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
That's crazy talk.
I am taking about the force used to over come the spring side to side , from Neutral you can shift up to 3 and down to 4 with out the slight push to one side.

So going from 2nd to 3rd that spring action is pushing the lever over for driver.

Yeah it moves but you do not have to over come the slight pressure. In facts just pushing it out of 2nd will pop it ovetr to N and be ready for go up to 3rd
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 Old 11-11-2018, 07:56 PM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by stariondriver View Post
I am taking about the force used to over come the spring side to side , from Neutral you can shift up to 3 and down to 4 with out the slight push to one side.

So going from 2nd to 3rd that spring action is pushing the lever over for driver.

Yeah it moves but you do not have to over come the slight pressure. In facts just pushing it out of 2nd will pop it ovetr to N and be ready for go up to 3rd
1-2 is on the left side. You CROSS THE GATE TO THE RIGHT, for the 2-3 shift. It is crossing from one shift gate to the other that changes shift geometry. We are not discussing what happens when shifting while stationary or with no load in the drive train. You don't have to believe me. That's ok. I've only lived with this car for . . . oh . . . let's see now . . . uh . . . 10 years.

You cannot get from 2 to 3 without crossing the gate. When shifting rapidly in that 2-3 shift with torque applied to the drive train, you will miss the gate to 3 if the linkage is not adjusted properly or the engine mounts are soft and the engine and transaxle have moved in relation to the shifter. 5-6 is yet a separate third gate further to the right.

Please stop demeaning people and start listening.

We really don't give a shit how much you think you know.

We are trying to help you, at least for now. Open your mind to the prospect that there are people here who might actually know something about these cars.

And, the "money shift" is the shift into the one gear where races are won or lost. That varies from platform to platform. In the MS3, it is third gear where the engine torque, transmission gearing, and differential gearing all combine to maximise acceleration for the longest time. That is where we pull on most other cars (although 4th is not bad).
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 Old 11-11-2018, 09:02 PM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
1-2 is on the left side. You CROSS THE GATE TO THE RIGHT, for the 2-3 shift. It is crossing from one shift gate to the other that changes shift geometry. We are not discussing what happens when shifting while stationary or with no load in the drive train. You don't have to believe me. That's ok. I've only lived with this car for . . . oh . . . let's see now . . . uh . . . 10 years.

You cannot get from 2 to 3 without crossing the gate. When shifting rapidly in that 2-3 shift with torque applied to the drive train, you will miss the gate to 3 if the linkage is not adjusted properly or the engine mounts are soft and the engine and transaxle have moved in relation to the shifter. 5-6 is yet a separate third gate further to the right.

Please stop demeaning people and start listening.

We really don't give a shit how much you think you know.

We are trying to help you, at least for now. Open your mind to the prospect that there are people here who might actually know something about these cars.

And, the "money shift" is the shift into the one gear where races are won or lost. That varies from platform to platform. In the MS3, it is third gear where the engine torque, transmission gearing, and differential gearing all combine to maximise acceleration for the longest time. That is where we pull on most other cars (although 4th is not bad).

See, a decent response is all I ever asked for. Would it have hurt to say that in the first place?
Instead your senior members talk down to me , bait me with bullshit responses like..
"learn to shift dude" or what the fuck ever the guy said to me like I never touched a manual trans before.
Enforce the rules about demeaning others on you senior members that go out of their way to talk me down instead of backing me into a corner just to cry when I bite back

PS I dont give a fuck how long you owned your MS6

Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post

We are trying to help you, at least for now. Open your mind to the prospect that there are people here who might actually know something about these cars.
Clearly everyone here is a know it all. Yet they cannot explain themselves and choose to talk shit instead.

Read up a few post and see all I did was ask the the guy how a shift bias is being created through cable adjustment.

And he has yet to answer, but he pours effort into shit talking

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 Old 11-12-2018, 07:48 PM   #25
 
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Originally Posted by stariondriver View Post
Wow you fucking punk , I know where the gears are you condescending shit pile.


Can you shut the fuck up with the insults and explain what you meant by the shifts being biased and how the adjustment effects it? I doubt you can because you prolly made it up....but please do prove me wrong.

"money shift" is a BS term and is in reference to down shifting any, read my opening post I said from 2nd to 3rd , which is an upshift.

Take your own advice before talking trash
Wow is that the same mouth you suck the cum from your dad's dick? Im quite embarrassed.... Well thanks for showing me the error of my ways!!

So you want me to explain Biased.. Hmmm ok well biased to the left or right is like your mom being biased to BIG cock vs small cock to fill her whore hole.

Like biased to the left being the shifter favors the left 1-2 gears like your mom favoring aids ridden dick.

Or biased to the right like a shifter favoring the 5-6 gears like your dad favoring the cock over your mom.

Oh yea money shift ... No that isnt when you mom moves to the next cock thats about to explode thats when you do a 1-2-1 shift or a 3-4-3. That happens when you dont move your shifter to the right. I hope was able to bring it down to a level that you can understand. So let me know if you have trouble visualizing something like left or right again.

So how is your shifting been??

Here since your half retarted heres a fucking stupid simple video for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=duIbdq-MQtw
You are stupid so its ok i feel the same way twards you as do i when i donate to https://www.globaldownsyndrome.org/ during xmas you fuck tard.

You dont do any recerch because if you did you wouldnt of made that thread about your injector seals. This sounds like that spark plug thread all over again..
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 Old 11-12-2018, 08:45 PM   #26
 
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@stariondriver; what makes you think I ever owned a MS6?

As to the MS3 that I've owned, modded and exclusively self-maintained for 10 years, your response speaks volumes about your inability to comprehend that in many walks of life, experience does matter.

I would humbly suggest that replacing the rear motor mount in your car is highly likely to greatly reduce the chance of missing your 2-3 upshift. Your prybar pass-fail "diagnosis" that the mount is good is just about worthless.
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 Old 11-13-2018, 10:02 AM   #27
 
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Change that RMM and TMM. Once done I no longer miss shifts unless I'm dumb enough to let my foot off the clutch too soon.
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 Old 11-13-2018, 10:13 AM   #28
 
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Originally Posted by Db09ms3 View Post
...unless I'm dumb enough to let my foot off the clutch too soon.
Been there...plenty of times.
My clutch foot is lazy.
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1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
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 Old 11-13-2018, 10:43 AM   #29
 
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My foot gets all antsy in its pantsies
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 Old 11-14-2018, 12:35 AM   #30
 
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lmao what a great forum this is
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 Old 11-14-2018, 05:04 AM   #31
 
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You could have just hit the "Quote" button, but whatever.

You going to turn that screenshot into the Bureau of Internet Bullying? Or BIB for short...you big baby.
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2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015 and I really need to get rid of it)
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2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
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 Old 11-14-2018, 08:38 AM   #32
 
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Originally Posted by stariondriver View Post
lmao what a great forum this is
Stop crying and get to work.
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 Old 11-14-2018, 12:58 PM   #33
 
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Originally Posted by Db09ms3 View Post
Stop crying and get to work.
Please do. Thanks.
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