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 Old 04-22-2012, 12:17 PM   #81
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Actually I am almost certain that it is actually the pads on the shift fork that are wearing out and causing the syncro to not fully engage which damages the syncro which damages the gear. The pads on the shift fork are just a nylon type material and since they dont turn with the syncro it hits the face of a piece of metal that is spinning at 4000 to 6500rpm which slowly destroys it. Things like metal in the fluid can ruin it in a matter of a few shifts and short throw shifters make it worse because no one buys one so that they can shift slower and that leads to extra wear per shift.

I REALLY want to get my hands on a set of used shift forks and syncros to test out some fixes that I think will be really cheap, close to bomb proof, and possibly outlast the rest of the trans. I just cant find anyone that has any old trans parts other than @Ingle who I think has a complete trans thats junk but thats ok for what I need. My only worry is that I have basically one shot per gear to get it right which isnt alot when you are kind of shooting in the dark.
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 Old 04-22-2012, 12:38 PM   #82
 
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Hmm, i may be able to work with you on this, I'm still trying to get my repair insurance to cover this but I think they're going to keep denying it. If they do, I could send you my used shift forks and syncros. If i were able to get those for you, how long would the testing take do you think?
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 Old 04-22-2012, 03:12 PM   #83
 
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My second gear was poping out during down shift and when dealer open it, they found a piece of clutch from the LSD that went everywhere in the transmission destroying gear, synchro and the pad on the fork.

They finally put a new transmission since it would cost a lot more to rebuilt.


Next thing to do for me if a want to go back on the 1/4 mile is to get a quaife LSD
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 Old 04-22-2012, 04:04 PM   #84
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this is EXACTLY what happened to @NJSPEED3 he has picts too.

i think @qtrmile beast has a spare trans........
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 Old 04-22-2012, 04:14 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by thehead View Post
Hmm, i may be able to work with you on this, I'm still trying to get my repair insurance to cover this but I think they're going to keep denying it. If they do, I could send you my used shift forks and syncros. If i were able to get those for you, how long would the testing take do you think?
Man I dont know, custom part machine times vary greatly and I dont know that your parts would end up as a useable prototype. Having said that, I would love to have your broken parts.
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 Old 04-22-2012, 05:22 PM   #86
 
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Interested to see what's going on. I've tried to be real nice to my trans but I have mis-shifted before so I'm wondering how good the stock trans is
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 Old 04-22-2012, 08:29 PM   #87
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I can lend you my shift forks for you to test new pads. I just can't have them damaged since the gearbox is still in pretty good condition.
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 Old 04-23-2012, 07:23 AM   #88
 
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Sending you a PM about my trans right now @06Speed6. Good? news for everybody is that the cost of a new transmission with 0 miles is cheaper than rebuilding a transmission since our parts are so expensive..
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 Old 04-23-2012, 07:28 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
I can lend you my shift forks for you to test new pads. I just can't have them damaged since the gearbox is still in pretty good condition.
Thats my problem lol, the testing will either destroy them or remake them as Overnight. Either way I go the change is going to be permanent.

Originally Posted by Ingle View Post
Sending you a PM about my trans right now @06Speed6. Good? news for everybody is that the cost of a new transmission with 0 miles is cheaper than rebuilding a transmission since our parts are so expensive..
Alright thanks!
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 Old 04-25-2012, 04:50 AM   #90
 
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Originally Posted by Ingle View Post
Sending you a PM about my trans right now @06Speed6. Good? news for everybody is that the cost of a new transmission with 0 miles is cheaper than rebuilding a transmission since our parts are so expensive..
The mechanic who change my transmission at the dealer is a friend and he told me that if want to buy a new one at the parts counter , it would cost around 6500$

The problem with mine was that the LSD was dead, all the synchros, nylon on the fork and 5 gear with broken teeth .

So if you only have to change synchros and fork, i think it would be cheaper to fix it
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 Old 04-25-2012, 06:54 AM   #91
 
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6500? So 1g can't use a 2g trans?
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 Old 04-25-2012, 08:04 AM   #92
 
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Originally Posted by travis9935 View Post
6500? So 1g can't use a 2g trans?
The GenJuan and GenPu transmissions are interchangeable.


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 Old 04-25-2012, 09:59 AM   #93
 
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That's what I figured, just dif ratios. I didn't think they'd spend money on creating a new case and all.
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 Old 04-25-2012, 10:05 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by mrdouble99 View Post
The mechanic who change my transmission at the dealer is a friend and he told me that if want to buy a new one at the parts counter , it would cost around 6500$

The problem with mine was that the LSD was dead, all the synchros, nylon on the fork and 5 gear with broken teeth .

So if you only have to change synchros and fork, i think it would be cheaper to fix it
I think your "friend" is sort of on the high end for the price he gave you for the transmission.

Gen1 trans is $2800
Gen2 is $3200
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 Old 04-25-2012, 10:21 AM   #95
 
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So does anybody make/sell upgraded parts for our trans?
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 Old 04-25-2012, 01:07 PM   #96
 
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GenJuan MS3 tranny $2500, plus shipping which varies greatly depending where you're located (ship to a business for drastically reduced shipping).

$6500 wouldn't surprise me from a dealer.. 3400 from them for the part + lubeless labor.. Fucking dealer prices and labor charges.
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 Old 04-25-2012, 01:19 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by travis9935 View Post
So does anybody make/sell upgraded parts for our trans?
Not yet.

10 char
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 Old 05-07-2012, 05:16 PM   #98
 
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@06Speed6 I just got my car back today, had the trans rebuilt for 2300, new 1st,2nd and 3rd gear and shift forks along with all the syncros and other little parts. I got the old stuff if you want it, I'll take a picture tomorrow. The forks on mine dont look too bad, a little wear.
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 Old 05-07-2012, 06:36 PM   #99
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Hells to the yeah, send meh that shitz! Wrap it up with some newspaper or something and see if it fits in one of the usps flat rate boxes, lemme know how much its going to be and ill paypal it to ya with some extra for the trouble.

I got my hands on @Ingle's trans and its in a few pieces but I think I can figure out how it goes together, ill take a better look at it this weekend.
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 Old 05-07-2012, 08:18 PM   #100
 
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Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
Hells to the yeah, send meh that shitz! Wrap it up with some newspaper or something and see if it fits in one of the usps flat rate boxes, lemme know how much its going to be and ill paypal it to ya with some extra for the trouble.

I got my hands on @Ingle's trans and its in a few pieces but I think I can figure out how it goes together, ill take a better look at it this weekend.
Hey man. I'm glad that worked out for you. I just got my new one today and finished pulling the engine and getting things ready. Keep me posted on how it goes.
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 Old 05-08-2012, 09:32 AM   #101
 
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Here's a pic of everything, I'm going to be out of town for a week so I'll have to check shipping when I get back.

its not a very good pic of the details of the gears, but yeah. Its pretty crazy though, the nylon inserts on one of the forks is completely gone, like it came off.

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 Old 05-08-2012, 09:36 AM   #102
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so is it safe to assume that we just need to replace those nylon inserts for 2nd to stay in?
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 Old 05-08-2012, 09:41 AM   #103
 
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I'd say its probably a good place to start, I dont know if that was the cause or if that was just one of the things that went wrong.
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 Old 05-08-2012, 09:59 AM   #104
 
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Originally Posted by manny View Post
par engineering makes gearsets for various mazda transmissions. They might be able to get something in the works for the A26m-R if they can get some parts and interest together. I'm not sure if they do forks but i'm pretty sure they sell upgraded synchros.

Par-Engineering - Gearsets (Ford/Mazda)
Mazda G-Series Synchromesh Engagement
$3,250 AUD (plus GST)
Since the late 80's, the G5M transmission has been fitted to a number of vehicles including the 323/Familia, 626/MX6. The G5M series are a 5MT with variants including a number of gear ratio selections and varying final drive ratios. Throughout the model's lifespan, single cone synchronizers were used early on with the gradual fitment of double cone synchronizers fitted to the later vehicles. This is the transmission of choice when the BPT engines or turbochargers are fitted to the BP engines in the Mazda 323/Familia/Protege or Ford Escort/Laser vehicles.

Although much stronger than the smaller F-Series transmissions, the G-Series torque capacity is still not sufficient to handle the extra load and shock provided by the fitment of more powerful engines and aggressive clutches with the most common failures being 3rd/4th gears, transmission case and broken differentials. The most notable weaknesses in the G-Series transmisssions is the general strength of the 2nd~3rd gear, differential planetary gears and pin. With more powerful vehicles, the case structure becomes a problem with the thrust load provided by the helical gears sometimes causing case failure including cracks in the housing and sometimes destructive failure of both housing and gearset.

For powerful street driven vehicle, we have the 1st~4th synchromesh engagement straight cut gearset available as a normally stocked item. Features and options include a number of ratios and options such as double synchronizer, needle roller bearings and shift stops on most gears to prevent overselecting for the inclusion of the very latest transmission technology and innovations in your upgrade.

Features:


- Tooth profiles that reduce noise, wear and load forces on the standard OEM transmission housing
- Multiple piece input shaft for flexible ratio choice and changes
- Shift retaining rings incorporated into design to eliminate over selection and synchronizer baulking
- Optional needle roller bearings with matching gears for minimal friction, noise and maximum load capacity and reliability
- Optional double synchro gears which enable the use of the latest dual cone baulk rings for the smoothest and quickest shifting
- Retension of OEM 5th gear assembly provides OEM NVH levels during cruise and freeway driving
- Straight cut gears for maximum power transmission and minimal thrust loads exerted on the OEM transmission case
- 3rd and 4th gear sets available individually as completely separate upgrades if desired ($640 AUD (ex GST) per speed)
- Billet crown wheel and pinion shaft (Optional - $1,000 AUD (plus GST))
- Billet reinforcement cups (Optional - $650 AUD (plus GST))
- No extra cost custom ratios



Ratios:


- 1st: 3.11
- 2nd: 1.83
- 3rd: 1.31, 1.24
- 4th: 0.96, 0.90
- 5th: Optional custom ratios available
- Final Drive: Optional 4.13, 4.43

Applications:


- All Mazda vehicles that use the G25M and G25MR transmissions including Protege, 323, Mazda 3, MX-3, 626, Mazda 6, MX-6 and others

Technical notes:

- Factory Service Data Specifications, especially preload specifications, must be used when installing gearsets
- OEM hubs may need clearancing with suitable machine tools in order to retrofit double cone synchroniser assemblies
- Genuine Mazda 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear dual cone synchronizer baulk ring assembly (GC01-17-26ZB)
- When fitting needle roller gears to the OEM input and pinion shaft, journals must be ground to the following specifications.
1st gear pinion shaft - 37mm
2nd gear pinion shaft - 33mm (Shoulder adjacent to journal must be kept to retain the factory circlip/retainer)
3rd gear input shaft - 33mm
4th gear input shaft - 30mm
(Any helical oil grooves remaining may be left if still visible after grinding)


MAI GAWD!!!

Just noticed, that's for a Probe/MX6/Protege
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 Old 05-08-2012, 06:16 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by thehead View Post
Here's a pic of everything, I'm going to be out of town for a week so I'll have to check shipping when I get back.

its not a very good pic of the details of the gears, but yeah. Its pretty crazy though, the nylon inserts on one of the forks is completely gone, like it came off.

Dang man your syncros are toast! There is no hurry, whenever you get back is fine. Thanks for taking the time to do it.
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 Old 06-05-2012, 09:36 AM   #106
 
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I have had problems with my 2nd gear popping out and grinding 3 times now. First time had it warranteed, second time found a used tranny with only 23,000 km's on it and slapped that in. Now same problem again with new trans so ive had enough. I have sourced out new shift forks for 1&2nd, 3&4th from tork motorsports in Washington and have also ordered 1st,2nd,
3rd,4th upgraded syncros and a bearing kit and i will be picking these up today. Apparently these are the latest revision from Mazda Japan with a cast iron shift fork and Tephlon inserts, and the synchros are also notched for better gear engagement. She's going to the shop this week for the rebuild and i will post as many pics as i can of the old parts vs the New.

Originally Posted by thehead View Post
@06Speed6 I just got my car back today, had the trans rebuilt for 2300, new 1st,2nd and 3rd gear and shift forks along with all the syncros and other little parts. I got the old stuff if you want it, I'll take a picture tomorrow. The forks on mine dont look too bad, a little wear.
Was your second gear toast?

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 Old 06-05-2012, 09:55 AM   #107
 
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I am curious as to how popping out of gear while decelerating is fault of the synchro.

Grinding I can see, but why popping out?
What actually keeps the sliders engaged? I thought there were detents that just wear out...

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 Old 06-05-2012, 12:57 PM   #108
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Tork Motorsports is ptp right?

All of the forks are already cast iron, and to my knowledge no revisions have been made.
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 Old 06-05-2012, 05:05 PM   #109
 
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Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
Tork Motorsports is ptp right?

All of the forks are already cast iron, and to my knowledge no revisions have been made.
As far as ive been told these are the latest Japanese revisions part number A601-17-40y(3rd and 4th gear #). The Tephlon inserts are dark tan Brown. Im taking the old forks out to see if there is a difference and i will post pictures.
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 Old 06-05-2012, 05:23 PM   #110
 
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Originally Posted by Cmoney82 View Post
Was your second gear toast?
my forks and syncros were bad, 2nd gear showed wear because of it.
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 Old 06-05-2012, 05:50 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
Tork Motorsports is ptp right?

All of the forks are already cast iron, and to my knowledge no revisions have been made.
Yes. Tork is PTP.
Not all the forks. There is one that's aluminum. See pic below.
How about some pics of the worn plastic inserts on the forks? I got my second gear box with an OS gicken LSD ready to go for the next clutch swap and would like to know if I should do something about those inserts before I seal the thing.





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 Old 06-05-2012, 08:14 PM   #112
 
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
Yes. Tork is PTP.
Not all the forks. There is one that's aluminum. See pic below.
How about some pics of the worn plastic inserts on the forks? I got my second gear box with an OS gicken LSD ready to go for the next clutch swap and would like to know if I should do something about those inserts before I seal the thing.





I havn't gotten the worn parts out yet but here are some pics of what's going in.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0623.JPG (1.24 MB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0625.JPG (1.20 MB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0626.JPG (1.93 MB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0634.JPG (2.00 MB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0627.JPG (1.51 MB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0628.JPG (1.74 MB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0624.JPG (1.32 MB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0631.JPG (1.35 MB, 24 views)
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 Old 06-06-2012, 08:02 AM   #113
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Yeah 6th is aluminum. Those inserts are alot darker than the brand new ones that I have, I am curious now.
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 Old 06-06-2012, 09:36 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Cmoney82 View Post
I havn't gotten the worn parts out yet but here are some pics of what's going in.
Can you post all the part numbers and what they are? I want to look them up. Thanks
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 Old 06-06-2012, 09:43 AM   #115
 
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Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
Yeah 6th is aluminum. Those inserts are alot darker than the brand new ones that I have, I am curious now.
Could you post pics of your new shift forks for comparison? i dropped my car off at the trans shop this morning and should have pics of my used ones soon.Thanks
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 Old 06-06-2012, 09:52 AM   #116
 
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Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
Can you post all the part numbers and what they are? I want to look them up. Thanks
Sorry, just dropped off the parts at the trans shop. one of the pics has the part number for the 3rd &4th fork and i beleive that the 1st & 2nd is the same part number only with an x on the end instead of a y. Hope this helps.
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 Old 06-06-2012, 09:53 AM   #117
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Yeah I can post pics
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 Old 06-23-2012, 12:45 PM   #118
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I got @theheads parts in and the shift forks are all straight and tight but the pads on them are chewed up and one is torn off, the syncros are pretty ground down as well but they appeared to still be functional. I put the parts together the way I think they go and the wear paterns on the brass syncro rings dont match the wear paterns on the steel parts so I need to tear into the other trans I have and see exactly how it goes together.
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 Old 06-23-2012, 03:08 PM   #119
 
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Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
I got @theheads parts in and the shift forks are all straight and tight but the pads on them are chewed up and one is torn off, the syncros are pretty ground down as well but they appeared to still be functional. I put the parts together the way I think they go and the wear paterns on the brass syncro rings dont match the wear paterns on the steel parts so I need to tear into the other trans I have and see exactly how it goes together.
yeah, the behavior of the gears were such that first gear didn't like to go in from a stop, like at a stop light being in neutral and shifting into first. second gear wouldn't go in at all, and third gear wouldn't go in at high rpms, if that helps you distinguish them. Hopefully you can get some use out of my gears
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 Old 06-23-2012, 07:38 PM   #120
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Sounds like the clutch wasn't releasing properly and tore the syncros a new one.
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Forum Mazda Performance Series - Zobacz temat - Biegi - hacz?ce/blokuj?ce/ci??ko wchodz?ce/zgrzytaj?ce... This thread Refback 01-26-2013 03:36 AM

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