register gallery
 

Go Back   Mazdaspeed Forums >
MAZDASPEED SECTION
>
Mazdaspeed 3/6 MZR Gen1 Forums (2006-2009)
> MazdaSpeed 6 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline


Welcome to Mazdaspeed Forums .

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

*When you join MSF as a registered user, there will be No Ads.

*Registered Members get access to the Off Topic Area of the Forum

*Registered Members have an opportunity to upgrade their accounts to VIP, which brings a host of goddies for supporting MSF such as Raffles, Additional Forum Access, More PM Storage, The ability to upload more Images and many other enhancements.

*Registered members also get access to the live chat box!
Like Tree9Likes
  • 8 Post By Mazdazilla6
  • 1 Post By phate
Reply
 
Bookmark and Share LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 Old 02-18-2014, 10:18 PM   #1
 
Mazdazilla6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Warrenville, IL/Big Rapids, MI
Posts: 3,657   (View Stats)
iTrader: (8)
Rep Power: 0
Mazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 3,349
Thanked 4,687 Times in 1,836 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default Our Rear Diff

I'd like to start by saying thanks to @Funkster777; for giving me this opportunity. After replacing his diff he gave me his old one to diagnose what went wrong as well as tear it down to see what it looks like.

So to start here is our rear diff:

IMG_7425.jpg

The easy way to explain how our drivetrain works is that the center and rear diff are mashed together. The "center diff" is the front half of the whole diff which holds the coupling unit while the rear half holds the LSD. The two halves separate where you see the bolt holes going around the diff kind of in the middle (in picture above).


Let's start from the rear for sake of simplicity (and because I love going in from behind). The rear diff uses a clutch plate style limited slip diff and has a 2.92 gear ratio when mated to our pinion gear. The LSD is held into the housing by two bearing caps on either end, like most diffs. Our pinion gear is an overhung type meaning that the pinion is held in by two ball bearings and the gear teeth hang over the end bearing.

IMG_7427.jpg

IMG_7435.JPG

Also the diff temp sensor is housed right behind the pinion (it's that little shiny bar in that tunnel):

IMG_7440.jpg


Now regarding this certain diff I have reason to believe that at some point the oil was overheated/ran low (Probably before Funkster had the car). As seen here the bearing caps have a bit of scoring on them as if the bearings started to eat into them a little. I'll talk more about this later.

IMG_7429.jpg


Moving forward, the rear half and front half share a common fluid as seen by this passage that goes from the front to the rear half (the shiny part in the hole is the coupling).

IMG_7437.jpg


In the front half of the diff there is the coupling. Here is what it looks like separated from the rear half and the coupling removed:

IMG_7456.jpg

Here is the coupling:

IMG_7458.jpg

Here is the front of the rear half with the front half removed. Note the big ass staked nut on the pinion lol.

IMG_7464.jpg

The shaft on top of the coupler is easily removed by taking off the top four bolts.

IMG_7459.jpg

Here is the back of the coupling which faces the rear half of the diff. There are two snap rings that are on the back but I already had them removed when I took this picture.

IMG_7461.jpg


Okay now is time for the fun part. The coupling. I would first like to say it is a total bitch to take apart and second I will say that you will NOT be able to put the coupling back together should you decide to take it apart. On the last picture I posted you can see there are two spot welds that hold in the coupling bottom to the housing. But I also found out that the whole area where it is raised in the rear is all threads, so the whole coupling bottom threads into the housing. The only way I was able to get the coupling bottom unthreaded was to use a cold rolled punch and punch off the casing (which is made of a brittle aluminum so be care of metal splinters) with the threaded part after throwing it in a vice. Even with most of the threading and spots welds punched off I still had to use a massive ass pipe wrench and spin it until the rest of the threads were out.

Caution: Opening up the coupling you might die due to the smell. No really, this shit stinks. How bad was it? My hall director came by my door telling me that he could smell it on the second floor (I live on the third) and he could smell it all the way down the hallway, more than 50 yards away. And that was after I had thrown out the oil and had cracked a window more than a half hour later. Literally everyone in my hall has stopped by my door telling me how much they hate me (okay only a few people).

On to the juicy details. The coupling is a viscous coupling, which has clutch plates in it:

IMG_7655.jpg

As well as metal plates that fit between the clutch plates:

IMG_7654.jpg

Together they layer like this:

IMG_7653.jpg

The metal plates are splined to the housing and the clutch plates are splined to the shaft in the middle of the housing which rotates on a ball bearing:

IMG_7656.jpg

So the shaft which was held on to the top by the four bolts is splined to the driveshaft flange which is obviously connected to the driveshaft and thus is always spinning. The shaft in the coupling which the clutch plates are splined to is splined to the pinion gear. So when the clutch plates engage the metal plates (think of them locking together on the faces) power is able to be flowed from the driveshaft to the LSD and ultimately to the wheels.

Now what determines how/when the plates engage is dependent on the rest of what's in the coupling. On top of the layers of clutch and metal plates are a ball and ramp assembly which has six balls. The bottom plate which holds the balls looks like this (backside facing the clutch and metal plates is first pic):

IMG_7658.jpg

IMG_7660.jpg

Balls sit between the bottom plate and the top plate (both of which have ramps for the balls). Pic of top plate (bottom side):

IMG_7666.jpg

Note the alignment marks on top of the top plate line up with slots in the plates between the top and bottom plates:

IMG_7670.jpg

Now the plates in between are friction plates. One kind of plate is splined to the housing:

IMG_7662.jpg

And the other plates are splined the the top plate:

IMG_7663.jpg

The surface of both plates looks to be the same:

IMG_7664.jpg

So when the bottom of the coupling is removed it looks like this (also there is a torrington bearing that rides on the small silver plate on top of the top ramp plate):

IMG_7650.jpg

I'm not sure how the solenoid physically acts when it is energized but this is what I believe how it works (if someone would like to fill this in they can). When the solenoid is energized, the friction plates will spin which will cause the top ramp plate to move and the balls will be forced to move up the ramp which will force the bottom ramp plate downward causing the metal plates and the clutch plates to engage and allow power to be transferred through the coupling.


Going back to this certain diff's failure. Other things that lead me to believe the oil was overheated/ran low is that it was extremely black on everything it covered inside the diff. Not only that but we pulled out shards of the clutch plates from the LSD which makes me think they were overheated (possibly due to lack of lube) until failure. The last thing that leads me to believe it failed because of this is that there is no damage to anything else; the coupling was solid before I pulled it apart, the ring and pinion had zero damage on the teeth and the wear was fine from what I saw looking at them, and like I said before the bearing caps have a bit of scoring on them. Also on the diff casing itself I noticed that the case was clean (meaning silver) on the top and bottom, yet the sides were black which makes me think oil was leaking from the half shaft seals and too much could have made it out. I'm going to tear down the LSD to get a better look at it hopefully next week maybe the week after. Also I'm going to test the temp sensor on the diff to see if it's fried as that may have given false/no readings to the ECU and allowed the oil to overheat.

I think that just about sums up the operation of our rear diff. If anyone has anything to add, thoughts or insight, all is welcome. Also I'd love to hear what you guys think could have caused the diff to fail. If anything seems vague or you want me to grab any more pictures just let me know and I'll add them.
__________________
Built 5862: Shootin For The Stars

2006 Mazdaspeed6 GT Crystal White Pearl #07141

Damond Motorsports = PS Cooler - RMM - PMM - OCC
VersaTuner = Versatune
Clutchmasters = 850 Street Twindisk
Corksport = RDM - CBE - RSB - TMM Insert
Turbine Tech = Forward Diff Mount - FMM
CP-e = Exhaust Manifold - Injector Seals
PTE = JB 5862
JMF = Intake Manifold w/Custom PI
Kozmic = Downpipe - 6th Port - EGR Delete
Forge = V2 BPV
Tial = 44mm WG
Autotech = HPFP Internals
HTP = 4" Intake - Battery Tray
Bilstein = B6 Shocks w/Eibach springs
Grimmspeed = EBCS
Technafit = SS Brake Lines - SS Clutch Line
Enkei = EVOX GSR 18x8.5 +38 - NT03+M 17x9.5 +38
Custom = FMIC w/TR1035 - Shifter Cables - Shifter Bushings

Last edited by Mazdazilla6; 02-27-2014 at 11:54 PM.
Mazdazilla6 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 34 Users Say Thank You to Mazdazilla6 For This Useful Post:
6ixof1 (02-19-2014), Alpha (02-20-2014), alphasaur (02-18-2014), aviator79 (09-15-2015), Axel907 (02-28-2014), BigjohnB20 (02-19-2014), chaser27 (02-18-2014), Code Monkey (02-18-2014), dale_gribble (02-19-2014), Doucems6 (04-24-2016), Funkster777 (02-19-2014), iCooper (02-24-2014), Jh8909 (02-19-2014), KevinK2 (02-19-2014), KusteLokal (02-21-2014), Lost hawaiian (02-20-2014), Micha (02-24-2014), MTLspeed6 (02-20-2014), Muzzybud (04-14-2016), mxlplx71 (09-14-2015), Neverlift (03-23-2016), phate (02-18-2014), PhillyCheese (02-20-2014), RE-ACTIONENGSPEED3 (09-14-2015), redboat (02-23-2014), Rich990 (05-12-2014), rymanmazda (02-19-2014), sidekick (02-18-2014), siegsuwa (08-19-2015), speed23 (02-19-2014), TiGraySpeed6 (02-19-2014), Tomas (03-25-2016), Vader (02-19-2014), xI Leveler Ix (02-19-2014)
 Old 02-18-2014, 10:27 PM   #2
 
sidekick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,093   (View Stats)
iTrader: (4)
Rep Power: 0
sidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the world
Thanks: 5,963
Thanked 3,103 Times in 1,356 Posts
Groans: 47
Groaned at 72 Times in 45 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Very interesting to see how complex the rear diffs in our cars are. Thanks for posting this.
__________________
2006 Mazdaspeed6

FreekTune | 91 | JBR 3", PMM & RMM | CS Racepipe, TMIC & TMM Inserts | Autotechs


sidekick is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sidekick For This Useful Post:
phate (02-18-2014)
 Old 02-18-2014, 10:50 PM   #3
Eth Fiend
 
phate's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn Hills, MI
Posts: 6,945   (View Stats)
iTrader: (10)
Rep Power: 11226
phate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the world
Thanks: 14,868
Thanked 21,728 Times in 5,873 Posts
Groans: 7
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

The rear diffs are so freakin sweet in this car. I have come across the Mazda documentation for the coupling and solenoid, but can't ever recall where it's at when I need it. The ball and ramp assembly works when there is a difference in speeds - if there is a difference in speeds, the ball moves away from center, causing the plates to get squished together. The more speed difference, the more pressure (because it's farther up the ramp supplying more pressure). The solenoid, from what I remember, just applied even more pressure to that assembly or allowed the ball and ramp to work more effectively.
__________________
-06 MS6
-Corn fed 07 MS3 - Sold



www.mazdamotorsports.com <<--Mazda racer support program that is free to join and will save you a ton of money.
phate is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to phate For This Useful Post:
Axel907 (02-28-2014), chaser27 (02-18-2014), Mazdazilla6 (02-18-2014), rymanmazda (02-19-2014), sidekick (02-18-2014)
 Old 02-18-2014, 11:30 PM   #4
 
sidekick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,093   (View Stats)
iTrader: (4)
Rep Power: 0
sidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the worldsidekick is the leader of the world
Thanks: 5,963
Thanked 3,103 Times in 1,356 Posts
Groans: 47
Groaned at 72 Times in 45 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Originally Posted by phate View Post
The rear diffs are so freakin sweet in this car. I have come across the Mazda documentation for the coupling and solenoid, but can't ever recall where it's at when I need it. The ball and ramp assembly works when there is a difference in speeds - if there is a difference in speeds, the ball moves away from center, causing the plates to get squished together. The more speed difference, the more pressure (because it's farther up the ramp supplying more pressure). The solenoid, from what I remember, just applied even more pressure to that assembly or allowed the ball and ramp to work more effectively.
It's a gift and a curse. Lol. The PTO/rear diff seem to be some of the biggest/most common problems on the MS6, not to mention the cost of replacement. AWD is only an advantage if it actually works.
__________________
2006 Mazdaspeed6

FreekTune | 91 | JBR 3", PMM & RMM | CS Racepipe, TMIC & TMM Inserts | Autotechs


sidekick is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sidekick For This Useful Post:
PhillyCheese (02-20-2014), redboat (02-23-2014)
 Old 02-19-2014, 07:44 AM   #5
 
TiGraySpeed6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tally, FL
Posts: 3,981   (View Stats)
iTrader: (1)
Rep Power: 3057
TiGraySpeed6 is the leader of the worldTiGraySpeed6 is the leader of the worldTiGraySpeed6 is the leader of the worldTiGraySpeed6 is the leader of the worldTiGraySpeed6 is the leader of the worldTiGraySpeed6 is the leader of the worldTiGraySpeed6 is the leader of the worldTiGraySpeed6 is the leader of the worldTiGraySpeed6 is the leader of the worldTiGraySpeed6 is the leader of the worldTiGraySpeed6 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 4,683
Thanked 5,754 Times in 2,278 Posts
Groans: 2
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Excellent to see an autopsy done on one of these finally!

I'm especially tickled to see the ball bearing set-up in the front section in real life compared to the tech training documentation which makes it look like there are only two balls.
__________________
Was a Mazdaspeed6 GT #3476 TiGray slicktop
Now in a BMW 135i - double the turbos, double the fun!
E82.N54 2009 / BSM / A/T / Drop-in / PR CP / Berk Street / MHD / xHP
340hp / 371tq
TiGraySpeed6 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TiGraySpeed6 For This Useful Post:
sidekick (02-19-2014)
 Old 02-19-2014, 08:20 AM   #6
 
Funkster777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,254   (View Stats)
iTrader: (1)
Rep Power: 0
Funkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 4,370
Thanked 890 Times in 451 Posts
Groans: 3
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Thanks for doing this. So now I know why it failed. Will make sure it will not happen again with new one.
__________________
Funkster777
2010 Black Cherry Metallic Mazda 6 DD (well as needed)

2006 Black Mica Mazdaspeed6 Sport

Originally fixed by IL NATOR. Rear Diff, TC, & PS cooler replaced due to MI NATOR. Rebuilding a MS6 one part at a time.

Performance: GTX3076r~Molnar rods~Wiseco pistons~Grimm EBCS~3-bar MAP~Autotech Internals~HTP 3.5" intake~GFB BPV~TR8 intercooler w/2.5" piping~Cobb AP v3~Freak Tune in progress (need to quit breaking things)~eBay catless DP~CS CBE~JBR RMM~ACT HD 6 puck sprung w/prolite~JBR SSP & weight~TWM Stage 2 SS w/BB & boot~Maisonvi Shift Knob~AE Tower Strut Bar~Rear Interior Brace~CP-e Rear Diff mount~Replacement Rear Diff & TC, MD PS cooler, CS Front & Rear Sway Bar~H&R Springs~Bilstein HD shocks~SS brake lines~FI Grounding Kit~EBC Yellows~Potenza RE970AS
Exterior: 6000k HIDs low beams~8000k HIDs fog lights~Luminics Ultra White Bulb high beams~HD lip~Speedline Emblemless Grill~Blacked out rear emblems~Smoked Rear & Side Markers with LEDs~15% back & windshield top tint~35% front~Sharkfin Antenna~Tower II LEDs for parking lights~CAR-LED tails
Interior: UV & purple LEDs~Blackvue DR400G-HD~Escort Redline up high w/mute~NeoPro Link iPod Connection~ProSport Premium Boost Gauge w/Vent Dual gauge pod
Waiting to Install/ Buy: SS clutch, oil pressure gauge, CP-e EWG setup/ Wheels (likely)?, Summer tires?, EVO Brembos?, Meth setup-5/6th port?


[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Funkster777 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Funkster777 For This Useful Post:
Mazdazilla6 (02-19-2014), sidekick (02-19-2014)
 Old 02-19-2014, 06:05 PM   #7
 
KevinK2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Delaware
Posts: 907   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
KevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 228
Thanked 739 Times in 388 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 79 Times in 52 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Nice work! The ball cam part of it is exactly like how my dry clutch is engaged on my '76 Triumph Motorcycle, and the e-brake on my 83 saab 900 (rip).

I also found the same coupling design was used on awd 626's.

.
__________________
From Delaware
Current Fleet: 04 Mazda6, 93 Rx7 TT, 76 Triumph 750 Trident

Tracked Cars: 68 Triumph GT6 (~full race prep'd), 81 Porsche 924 Turbo, 93 Rx7 twin turbo
KevinK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 02-19-2014, 07:29 PM   #8
 
KevinK2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Delaware
Posts: 907   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
KevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 228
Thanked 739 Times in 388 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 79 Times in 52 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Originally Posted by phate View Post
The rear diffs are so freakin sweet in this car. I have come across the Mazda documentation for the coupling and solenoid, but can't ever recall where it's at when I need it.
It's a sticky in this forum: MS6 Training Manual starts at page #35 .

Or you can see it here transfer-case-disassembly-has-anyone-done

Originally Posted by phate
The ball and ramp assembly works when there is a difference in speeds - if there is a difference in speeds, the ball moves away from center, causing the plates to get squished together. The more speed difference, the more pressure (because it's farther up the ramp supplying more pressure). The solenoid, from what I remember, just applied even more pressure to that assembly or allowed the ball and ramp to work more effectively.
Actually, there is a pilot clutch, shown in the later pics above with a carbon-fiber look, that is 1st engaged by the electromagnetic coil, with a load ~proportional to the solenoid duty cycle. The primary clutch plates are as described by Mazdazilla6, except the ones with the ID teeth are fitted into an extension of the first cam plate, and not the pinion shaft. They are pushed forward against the cam plates, and against the main clutch in the front of the case. The cam ramps move relative to each other, in proportion to the duty cycle but also amplified by the cam action, and increase the main clutch grab.

A speed difference between the drive shaft and pinion shaft is needed to supply substancial torque to the rear wheels, as you noted.

.

Originally Posted by Funkster777 View Post
Thanks for doing this. So now I know why it failed. Will make sure it will not happen again with new one.
How did it behave when it failed?

.
__________________
From Delaware
Current Fleet: 04 Mazda6, 93 Rx7 TT, 76 Triumph 750 Trident

Tracked Cars: 68 Triumph GT6 (~full race prep'd), 81 Porsche 924 Turbo, 93 Rx7 twin turbo

Last edited by KevinK2; 02-19-2014 at 09:03 PM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
KevinK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KevinK2 For This Useful Post:
Tomas (02-21-2014), xI Leveler Ix (02-19-2014)
 Old 02-19-2014, 08:20 PM   #9
 
Funkster777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,254   (View Stats)
iTrader: (1)
Rep Power: 0
Funkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the worldFunkster777 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 4,370
Thanked 890 Times in 451 Posts
Groans: 3
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Fine. I was getting 4wd light on and off so @Mazdazilla6; and I drained it and noticed the black ooze and the parts.





It was then replaced. Still had problems and replaced transfer case.
__________________
Funkster777
2010 Black Cherry Metallic Mazda 6 DD (well as needed)

2006 Black Mica Mazdaspeed6 Sport

Originally fixed by IL NATOR. Rear Diff, TC, & PS cooler replaced due to MI NATOR. Rebuilding a MS6 one part at a time.

Performance: GTX3076r~Molnar rods~Wiseco pistons~Grimm EBCS~3-bar MAP~Autotech Internals~HTP 3.5" intake~GFB BPV~TR8 intercooler w/2.5" piping~Cobb AP v3~Freak Tune in progress (need to quit breaking things)~eBay catless DP~CS CBE~JBR RMM~ACT HD 6 puck sprung w/prolite~JBR SSP & weight~TWM Stage 2 SS w/BB & boot~Maisonvi Shift Knob~AE Tower Strut Bar~Rear Interior Brace~CP-e Rear Diff mount~Replacement Rear Diff & TC, MD PS cooler, CS Front & Rear Sway Bar~H&R Springs~Bilstein HD shocks~SS brake lines~FI Grounding Kit~EBC Yellows~Potenza RE970AS
Exterior: 6000k HIDs low beams~8000k HIDs fog lights~Luminics Ultra White Bulb high beams~HD lip~Speedline Emblemless Grill~Blacked out rear emblems~Smoked Rear & Side Markers with LEDs~15% back & windshield top tint~35% front~Sharkfin Antenna~Tower II LEDs for parking lights~CAR-LED tails
Interior: UV & purple LEDs~Blackvue DR400G-HD~Escort Redline up high w/mute~NeoPro Link iPod Connection~ProSport Premium Boost Gauge w/Vent Dual gauge pod
Waiting to Install/ Buy: SS clutch, oil pressure gauge, CP-e EWG setup/ Wheels (likely)?, Summer tires?, EVO Brembos?, Meth setup-5/6th port?


[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Funkster777 is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 02-19-2014, 08:43 PM   #10
 
KevinK2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Delaware
Posts: 907   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
KevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 228
Thanked 739 Times in 388 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 79 Times in 52 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

I think that came from the tapered friction rings that are behind the side bearings, inside the diff carrier.

Lifted this great coupling illustration from one of your posts:



.
__________________
From Delaware
Current Fleet: 04 Mazda6, 93 Rx7 TT, 76 Triumph 750 Trident

Tracked Cars: 68 Triumph GT6 (~full race prep'd), 81 Porsche 924 Turbo, 93 Rx7 twin turbo
KevinK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 02-20-2014, 02:49 PM   #11
 
KevinK2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Delaware
Posts: 907   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
KevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 228
Thanked 739 Times in 388 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 79 Times in 52 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Originally Posted by Funkster777 View Post
... I drained it and noticed the black ooze and the parts.


This "Mt Fuji" LSD is shown to have friction cones on top of the side gears, acting a bit like a sycro ring in a trans. But based on those parts, the lsd is more like a preloaded clutch style, with the clutch plates and discs behind the side gears. Like this:




Note the 2 tabs per clutch plate.


.
__________________
From Delaware
Current Fleet: 04 Mazda6, 93 Rx7 TT, 76 Triumph 750 Trident

Tracked Cars: 68 Triumph GT6 (~full race prep'd), 81 Porsche 924 Turbo, 93 Rx7 twin turbo
KevinK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KevinK2 For This Useful Post:
jm211 (02-20-2014), Tomas (02-21-2014)
 Old 02-20-2014, 03:09 PM   #12
 
KevinK2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Delaware
Posts: 907   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
KevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 228
Thanked 739 Times in 388 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 79 Times in 52 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 View Post
... On to the juicy details. The coupling is a viscous coupling, which has clutch plates in it: .....

Not quite right . VW made the viscous coupling famous (to me) as a center diff. It is as simple as it gets. All the clutch plates and discs are enclosed in the spinning housing with next to zero axial play.It is FWD or RWD until there is a big speed difference at the F vs R wheels. This heats up the silicone based fluid that gets so viscous it locks the plates together. ATF is not that special oil.

Viscous_coupling_unit Viscous_coupling_unit

.
__________________
From Delaware
Current Fleet: 04 Mazda6, 93 Rx7 TT, 76 Triumph 750 Trident

Tracked Cars: 68 Triumph GT6 (~full race prep'd), 81 Porsche 924 Turbo, 93 Rx7 twin turbo
KevinK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 02-20-2014, 04:03 PM   #13
 
Mazdazilla6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Warrenville, IL/Big Rapids, MI
Posts: 3,657   (View Stats)
iTrader: (8)
Rep Power: 0
Mazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 3,349
Thanked 4,687 Times in 1,836 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Originally Posted by KevinK2 View Post
Not quite right . VW made the viscous coupling famous (to me) as a center diff. It is as simple as it gets. All the clutch plates and discs are enclosed in the spinning housing with next to zero axial play.It is FWD or RWD until there is a big speed difference at the F vs R wheels. This heats up the silicone based fluid that gets so viscous it locks the plates together. ATF is not that special oil.

Viscous_coupling_unit

.
I have my suspicions it my not be ATF. I've never seen ATF look this brown/black color and I've never smelled ATF that is this horrible smelling.
__________________
Built 5862: Shootin For The Stars

2006 Mazdaspeed6 GT Crystal White Pearl #07141

Damond Motorsports = PS Cooler - RMM - PMM - OCC
VersaTuner = Versatune
Clutchmasters = 850 Street Twindisk
Corksport = RDM - CBE - RSB - TMM Insert
Turbine Tech = Forward Diff Mount - FMM
CP-e = Exhaust Manifold - Injector Seals
PTE = JB 5862
JMF = Intake Manifold w/Custom PI
Kozmic = Downpipe - 6th Port - EGR Delete
Forge = V2 BPV
Tial = 44mm WG
Autotech = HPFP Internals
HTP = 4" Intake - Battery Tray
Bilstein = B6 Shocks w/Eibach springs
Grimmspeed = EBCS
Technafit = SS Brake Lines - SS Clutch Line
Enkei = EVOX GSR 18x8.5 +38 - NT03+M 17x9.5 +38
Custom = FMIC w/TR1035 - Shifter Cables - Shifter Bushings
Mazdazilla6 is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 02-21-2014, 03:11 PM   #14
 
KevinK2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Delaware
Posts: 907   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
KevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 228
Thanked 739 Times in 388 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 79 Times in 52 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Did you get a chance to pull the diff center housing apart ? The clutch type rings behind the side gears could be the main broken parts.

.
__________________
From Delaware
Current Fleet: 04 Mazda6, 93 Rx7 TT, 76 Triumph 750 Trident

Tracked Cars: 68 Triumph GT6 (~full race prep'd), 81 Porsche 924 Turbo, 93 Rx7 twin turbo
KevinK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 02-21-2014, 11:41 PM   #15
 
Mazdazilla6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Warrenville, IL/Big Rapids, MI
Posts: 3,657   (View Stats)
iTrader: (8)
Rep Power: 0
Mazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the worldMazdazilla6 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 3,349
Thanked 4,687 Times in 1,836 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

You mean the LSD? No I haven't torn it down yet but I believe that's what it is too. I may have it apart this or next week.
__________________
Built 5862: Shootin For The Stars

2006 Mazdaspeed6 GT Crystal White Pearl #07141

Damond Motorsports = PS Cooler - RMM - PMM - OCC
VersaTuner = Versatune
Clutchmasters = 850 Street Twindisk
Corksport = RDM - CBE - RSB - TMM Insert
Turbine Tech = Forward Diff Mount - FMM
CP-e = Exhaust Manifold - Injector Seals
PTE = JB 5862
JMF = Intake Manifold w/Custom PI
Kozmic = Downpipe - 6th Port - EGR Delete
Forge = V2 BPV
Tial = 44mm WG
Autotech = HPFP Internals
HTP = 4" Intake - Battery Tray
Bilstein = B6 Shocks w/Eibach springs
Grimmspeed = EBCS
Technafit = SS Brake Lines - SS Clutch Line
Enkei = EVOX GSR 18x8.5 +38 - NT03+M 17x9.5 +38
Custom = FMIC w/TR1035 - Shifter Cables - Shifter Bushings
Mazdazilla6 is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 02-24-2014, 07:51 AM   #16
 
iCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Knoxville TN
Posts: 11   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
iCooper is just really niceiCooper is just really niceiCooper is just really niceiCooper is just really nice
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 3 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

I really wish I saw this last weekend before removing the center diff, this wouldve made me alot more comfortable with it, great write up though. Its nice to actually see whats going on in there.
__________________
White 2006 MS6 GT - Custom Intake - Straight Exhaust - Slotted Rotors - Hawk Pads - TurboXS Hybrid Valve - Cobb AP - Fidanza Lightweight Flywheel

Nator TN/KY
iCooper is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 03-23-2016, 05:18 PM   #17
 
calinflorinalexandru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Romania , Europe
Posts: 90   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
calinflorinalexandru has much to be proud ofcalinflorinalexandru has much to be proud ofcalinflorinalexandru has much to be proud ofcalinflorinalexandru has much to be proud ofcalinflorinalexandru has much to be proud ofcalinflorinalexandru has much to be proud ofcalinflorinalexandru has much to be proud ofcalinflorinalexandru has much to be proud ofcalinflorinalexandru has much to be proud of
Thanks: 9
Thanked 28 Times in 16 Posts
Groans: 3
Groaned at 32 Times in 15 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Originally Posted by KevinK2 View Post
Did you get a chance to pull the diff center housing apart ? The clutch type rings behind the side gears could be the main broken parts.

.
For sure those pieces are the tabs from the "taper ring". The Miata guys faced same problem with Tochigi Fuji diffs. Me also I found a piece like that when I changed my rear diff oil. In 1 month I'll be at home and I will brea apart the diff. I have a spare one waiting to be fitted. Here you have the link with plenty information

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/yaf_pos...-from-diff.asp

Another thread from Australia fellows

http://www.ozmpsclub.com/forum/drive...nging-oil.html
__________________
Silver Mazda 6 MPS /Built Engine/ GramLights 57xtreme 18x8.5 et45 \ Vredestein Ultrac Vorti 225x40R18

Last edited by calinflorinalexandru; 03-23-2016 at 06:45 PM.
calinflorinalexandru is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 04-14-2016, 04:59 AM   #18
 
Cdnspeed6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Canada, Ontario, Toronto
Posts: 139   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
Cdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond repute
Thanks: 52
Thanked 51 Times in 36 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Great post! I thought we had a torsen rear diff but always suspected it to be a plate diff, esp with how tail happy these cars can be (if you have enough power and skinny tires lol)

there is No pump in the clutch pack? is it just a direct solenoid to control the lock up?

It'd be handy to run a diff cooler in the rear, the plate coupling and the plate diff would really cook fluid on the track, speaking of which I should go change my rear diff fluid now.. lol
__________________
2007 Speed6- Cp-e RMM, M2 Downpipe, BNRS3V2, HKS SSQV
CS FMIC, CS TIP, CS SRI, CS HPFP, H&R coilovers
Cdnspeed6 is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 04-14-2016, 07:55 AM   #19
 
KevinK2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Delaware
Posts: 907   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
KevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 228
Thanked 739 Times in 388 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 79 Times in 52 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

I think clutch pack LSD's like this and the Torson and Quaif gear type work based on friction, so at a road course with many turns you really cook the lsd oil, as well as the stinky coupling oil. With the RX7 I tracked, the torsen rear diff oil would turn black from heat after a few sessions, while the trans oil looked new. I always changed the diff oil once or twice a year. Also changed the trans oil after a couple seasons, and shifting felt better. I suspect the trans oil sheared down over time, but did not overheat.

If you hit the overheat switch, the coupling will de-couple for the rear in the MS6, and revert to FWD. I think oil changes will do, unless you hit the temp switch often.

Thanks to OP for excellent thread.


.
__________________
From Delaware
Current Fleet: 04 Mazda6, 93 Rx7 TT, 76 Triumph 750 Trident

Tracked Cars: 68 Triumph GT6 (~full race prep'd), 81 Porsche 924 Turbo, 93 Rx7 twin turbo
KevinK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 04-14-2016, 08:12 AM   #20
Eth Fiend
 
phate's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn Hills, MI
Posts: 6,945   (View Stats)
iTrader: (10)
Rep Power: 11226
phate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the world
Thanks: 14,868
Thanked 21,728 Times in 5,873 Posts
Groans: 7
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

For some reason, I remembered @Tomas; talking about cucumbers in reference to his diff...

Dildo Blitz
__________________
-06 MS6
-Corn fed 07 MS3 - Sold



www.mazdamotorsports.com <<--Mazda racer support program that is free to join and will save you a ton of money.
phate is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to phate For This Useful Post:
Tomas (04-14-2016)
 Old 04-14-2016, 08:41 AM   #21
 
Cdnspeed6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Canada, Ontario, Toronto
Posts: 139   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
Cdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond reputeCdnspeed6 has a reputation beyond repute
Thanks: 52
Thanked 51 Times in 36 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Originally Posted by KevinK2 View Post
I think clutch pack LSD's like this and the Torson and Quaif gear type work based on friction, so at a road course with many turns you really cook the lsd oil, as well as the stinky coupling oil. With the RX7 I tracked, the torsen rear diff oil would turn black from heat after a few sessions, while the trans oil looked new. I always changed the diff oil once or twice a year. Also changed the trans oil after a couple seasons, and shifting felt better. I suspect the trans oil sheared down over time, but did not overheat.

If you hit the overheat switch, the coupling will de-couple for the rear in the MS6, and revert to FWD. I think oil changes will do, unless you hit the temp switch often.

Thanks to OP for excellent thread.


.
Torsen and Quaife are the same style of diff, they don't cook oil like Clutch packs do. but there is always a ton of load in the rear diffs so its not an easy life for fluid either way lol

the Clutch pack diffs work on Load the more load there is the more lock up you get. where as a torsen will transfer power to another wheel based on load, its hard to explain but a Clutch pack diff is definitely a better unit in almost every performance way
__________________
2007 Speed6- Cp-e RMM, M2 Downpipe, BNRS3V2, HKS SSQV
CS FMIC, CS TIP, CS SRI, CS HPFP, H&R coilovers
Cdnspeed6 is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 04-14-2016, 10:39 AM   #22
 
KevinK2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Delaware
Posts: 907   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
KevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 228
Thanked 739 Times in 388 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 79 Times in 52 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Originally Posted by Cdnspeed6 View Post
Torsen and Quaife are the same style of diff, they don't cook oil like Clutch packs do. but there is always a ton of load in the rear diffs so its not an easy life for fluid either way lol

the Clutch pack diffs work on Load the more load there is the more lock up you get. where as a torsen will transfer power to another wheel based on load, its hard to explain but a Clutch pack diff is definitely a better unit in almost every performance way
You are correct about Torsen's transferring power based on load, but it's more of a lack of load.

My experience was the gear type also creates a ton of heat. The way they experience lock-up has to do with worm gears on the axle ends that can't be driven by the outer spur gears, which locks both wheels up when one side is on a loose surface. In this case as well as with a fully locked up clutch type diff, no heat is generated as there is no slippage.

The heat generation in both occurs when on the gas in a corner and wheels are spinning at different speeds. The heat source with the clutch type is obvious. With a Torsen, the video shows power being transferred through the outer gears. Those gears are body fit in the metal center section, with NO bearings. The mesh separating forces, and the axial thrust load are resisted by frictional contact between the outer gear and the metal housing that captures it. With the big worm gears on the axle ends, the thrust load is taken by relatively stationary metal surfaces with friction.

This video is an excellent, simple explanation of a Torsen:
Torsen Video

I've seen the equations explaining all this, and at the beginning you have a coefficient of friction for these sliding metal contacts. Using this, I cured a problem I had with the Torsen locking-up too quickly on wet roads, trying to cause a spin-out. I simply added an extra small bottle of friction modifier, that decreased the friction, and was much better on wet roads, but still ok on the track.


.
__________________
From Delaware
Current Fleet: 04 Mazda6, 93 Rx7 TT, 76 Triumph 750 Trident

Tracked Cars: 68 Triumph GT6 (~full race prep'd), 81 Porsche 924 Turbo, 93 Rx7 twin turbo
KevinK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 04-14-2016, 12:35 PM   #23
Bob Ross Fanclub
 
Tomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SEFL
Posts: 3,811   (View Stats)
iTrader: (8)
Rep Power: 4332
Tomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the world
Thanks: 4,532
Thanked 8,223 Times in 2,349 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 35 Times in 20 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

The rear diff on the MS6 is a cone clutch type with tapered/cone gears. Same as the front MS3 lsd. The whole carrier assembly on the MS6 is made of awesome sauce. It is probably the most bullet proof component on the car together with engine block structural stiffness and will probably never overheat unless you run it at the 24 hrs of Le Mans or something.

LSD Swap out
__________________
Tomas is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Tomas For This Useful Post:
Cdnspeed6 (04-15-2016), Code Monkey (04-17-2016), KevinK2 (04-14-2016), Mazdazilla6 (10-09-2016), phate (04-14-2016), WetzMS3 (04-14-2016)
 Old 04-14-2016, 02:50 PM   #24
 
KevinK2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Delaware
Posts: 907   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
KevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the worldKevinK2 is the leader of the world
Thanks: 228
Thanked 739 Times in 388 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 79 Times in 52 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
The rear diff on the MS6 is a cone clutch type with tapered/cone gears......
Thanks for the correction, I assumed the OP who appeared to have taken one apart was correct. You have lots of great input on the OEM rear LSD, which is clearly identified as a cone type in the MS6 "Training manual" sticky.

Doe you think it can lock up completely, thanks to the shallow cone taper (not quite a Morse tool taper) ?

Some of your test temperatures from your post that Phate linked above:

Originally Posted by Tomas View Post

1. Engine oil: Temps stabilize at around 240F to 250F during track work. The large oil cooler helps a lot.

2. Transfer case: I was surprised how fast the oil in the transfer case rises to temp and stays there. It rises almost as fast as engine oil temps and much faster than transmission temp. It will climb to about 190F during regular highway driving and stay around that temp. During track work it goes up to about 250 and stays there.

3. Transmission: Temps in the tranny rise very slowly but they also take a long time to come down once hot. Highway cruising stays at around 190F and during track work they will go as high as 260F. I would have thought the tranny on the 6 would run cooler than the 3 due to the lack of an LSD but that does not seem to be the case.

4. Rear diff: Very pleasant surprise here! This thing runs cool as a cucumber. It barely goes above 140F when cruising and at the track it never hit more than about 190F after lots of punishment. I am confident that thing will never need additional fluid cooling even at higher levels of power.

.
__________________
From Delaware
Current Fleet: 04 Mazda6, 93 Rx7 TT, 76 Triumph 750 Trident

Tracked Cars: 68 Triumph GT6 (~full race prep'd), 81 Porsche 924 Turbo, 93 Rx7 twin turbo
KevinK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 04-17-2016, 07:01 PM   #25
Bob Ross Fanclub
 
Tomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SEFL
Posts: 3,811   (View Stats)
iTrader: (8)
Rep Power: 4332
Tomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the world
Thanks: 4,532
Thanked 8,223 Times in 2,349 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 35 Times in 20 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Yes, I think it can lock up completely.
__________________
Tomas is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tomas For This Useful Post:
KevinK2 (04-17-2016)
 Old 07-24-2018, 06:07 AM   #26
Eth Fiend
 
phate's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn Hills, MI
Posts: 6,945   (View Stats)
iTrader: (10)
Rep Power: 11226
phate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the world
Thanks: 14,868
Thanked 21,728 Times in 5,873 Posts
Groans: 7
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Differential breakdown pictures attached. That was the only thing missing from this thread.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20180723_193330.jpg (374.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 20180723_193400.jpg (327.0 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 20180723_193521.jpg (389.8 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 20180723_194808.jpg (398.0 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 20180723_194819.jpg (210.2 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 20180723_194827.jpg (368.3 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 20180723_194842.jpg (396.1 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 20180723_195542.jpg (320.2 KB, 8 views)
driver-wsh likes this.
__________________
-06 MS6
-Corn fed 07 MS3 - Sold



www.mazdamotorsports.com <<--Mazda racer support program that is free to join and will save you a ton of money.
phate is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to phate For This Useful Post:
Code Monkey (07-24-2018), Db09ms3 (07-27-2018), driver-wsh (10-11-2018), monkey.bones.007 (07-24-2018), Thor Hammer (07-24-2018), Tomas (07-27-2018)
 Old 07-27-2018, 11:19 AM   #27
Bob Ross Fanclub
 
Tomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SEFL
Posts: 3,811   (View Stats)
iTrader: (8)
Rep Power: 4332
Tomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the world
Thanks: 4,532
Thanked 8,223 Times in 2,349 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 35 Times in 20 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Is there something wrong with it?
__________________
Tomas is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 07-27-2018, 11:21 AM   #28
Eth Fiend
 
phate's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn Hills, MI
Posts: 6,945   (View Stats)
iTrader: (10)
Rep Power: 11226
phate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the world
Thanks: 14,868
Thanked 21,728 Times in 5,873 Posts
Groans: 7
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
Is there something wrong with it?
Nope, just a spare I have lying in the garage.
__________________
-06 MS6
-Corn fed 07 MS3 - Sold



www.mazdamotorsports.com <<--Mazda racer support program that is free to join and will save you a ton of money.
phate is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 07-27-2018, 11:31 AM   #29
Bob Ross Fanclub
 
Tomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SEFL
Posts: 3,811   (View Stats)
iTrader: (8)
Rep Power: 4332
Tomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the world
Thanks: 4,532
Thanked 8,223 Times in 2,349 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 35 Times in 20 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

You playin doctor with the diff? She shows you hers you show her yours?
__________________
Tomas is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tomas For This Useful Post:
Db09ms3 (07-27-2018)
 Old 07-27-2018, 11:35 AM   #30
Eth Fiend
 
phate's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn Hills, MI
Posts: 6,945   (View Stats)
iTrader: (10)
Rep Power: 11226
phate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the world
Thanks: 14,868
Thanked 21,728 Times in 5,873 Posts
Groans: 7
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Nah, just wanted something to do other than fix the car. I hadn't seen one of these taken apart, so it was a few minute job to tear this down.

The stock rear diff works great in the 6, really. No need to modify, as of now.
__________________
-06 MS6
-Corn fed 07 MS3 - Sold



www.mazdamotorsports.com <<--Mazda racer support program that is free to join and will save you a ton of money.
phate is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 07-30-2018, 11:50 AM   #31
Bob Ross Fanclub
 
Tomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SEFL
Posts: 3,811   (View Stats)
iTrader: (8)
Rep Power: 4332
Tomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the worldTomas is the leader of the world
Thanks: 4,532
Thanked 8,223 Times in 2,349 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 35 Times in 20 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

I have heard it is the same unit as the RX8s use.
__________________
Tomas is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 07-30-2018, 11:51 AM   #32
Eth Fiend
 
phate's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn Hills, MI
Posts: 6,945   (View Stats)
iTrader: (10)
Rep Power: 11226
phate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the worldphate is the leader of the world
Thanks: 14,868
Thanked 21,728 Times in 5,873 Posts
Groans: 7
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
I have heard it is the same unit as the RX8s use.
I've heard the same, but no confirmation.
__________________
-06 MS6
-Corn fed 07 MS3 - Sold



www.mazdamotorsports.com <<--Mazda racer support program that is free to join and will save you a ton of money.
phate is offline   Reply With Quote
 Old 07-30-2018, 09:15 PM   #33
 
Fstrnyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Near Charlotte NC
Posts: 2,498   (View Stats)
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
Fstrnyou is the leader of the worldFstrnyou is the leader of the worldFstrnyou is the leader of the worldFstrnyou is the leader of the worldFstrnyou is the leader of the worldFstrnyou is the leader of the worldFstrnyou is the leader of the worldFstrnyou is the leader of the worldFstrnyou is the leader of the worldFstrnyou is the leader of the worldFstrnyou is the leader of the world
Thanks: 55
Thanked 712 Times in 555 Posts
Groans: 23
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Not Ranked  0 score     
Default

Since you're bored between races...

Ponder on this:
My diff coupler occasionally "sticks" engaged. Usually after a hard pull in 1st or 2nd gear. Sometimes it's stuck for several days.

3, 2, 1, GO!
__________________
'06 MS6 GT-167k Miles(Forged@157,116)
Manley Pistons & Rods, King Bearings
Stock Head/Cams, Stock Int/Exh Manifolds
Versatuner, 3-bar MAP, ITV22, CP-e TMIC
CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Rear Russian Bushings, Poly FSB Bushings
Magnaflow CBE, ACT 6-puck/Streetlite
JBR Tru-3.5/3-port EBCS/EGR-D
Damond RMM/PMM/OCC/PCV Plate
Other rides:
2014 F-150 XLT SuperCrew Ecoboost
2002 Tacoma ExtCab 2.4L 5spd 2WD
2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken
History:
2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (13.467 @ 105.44)
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
Fstrnyou is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f106/our-rear-diff-164822/
Posted By For Type Date
Metal Pieces From Rear Case - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum This thread Pingback 11-10-2015 05:54 AM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rear diff locks while turning after SURE diff mount and brace install wettoast MazdaSpeed 6 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline 47 11-04-2018 04:50 PM
Rear diff mount and rear sway bar bcmps MazdaSpeed 6 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline 16 03-25-2014 06:33 PM
Rear diff module fail takes out the rear diff coupling 06Speed6 MazdaSpeed 6 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline 7 10-24-2011 11:19 PM
rear diff "stiff diff" brace vs. rear diff front mount giordanos4 MazdaSpeed 6 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline 18 03-03-2011 08:38 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:10 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vB.Sponsors
Template-Modifications by TMS
©Copyright 2008 ; 2019 Cymru Internet Services LLC | FYHN™ Autosports HQ
Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
Page generated in 0.58394 seconds with 31 queries