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 Old 03-08-2018, 01:11 PM   #1
 
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Default Speed6 engine space ?

Hey
I had a speed3 and gonna buy a speed6 soon but i'm curious to know if there is more space to work around or to add some stuff like meth tank and FMIC piping compared to a 3 ?

Then is the steering pump mechanical like 3 first gen ? (I saw one with a ps problem....)

Is there anything different from the speed3 that i should know about if i plan to build one? Of course awd and more weight but:
-Can i use the same mapping or i should arrange something because i would get more load ?
-For driveline support, i heard about the needs for an harder diff. mount and probably a stiffer RMM too but is there anything else needed for safe use ?

Then between base and GT, is there usefull things to search more for a GT? i read about the heated leather seat but what else ?
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 Old 03-08-2018, 06:48 PM   #2
 
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Two engines with identical mods might require a slightly different tune. Kinda depends on the state of the engines, manufacturing tolerances, etc.
I don't fully subscribe to the AWD factoring in to load. Load is calculated based on RPM, Mass Air Flow, and a few other things. It doesn't care what gear you're in or how much the vehicle weighs. What changes is the acceleration rate. The slower acceleration of a heavier vehicle or by using a higher gear makes it easier for the turbo to keep up. In 1st gear, and especially neutral, the RPM rises faster than the compressor RPM. That's why it's much harder to make boost there. Put it in 5th or 6th gear and mash the gas and you could have ample rod bending boost at a very low RPM.

With the 6, there is no ECU relocate.

The power steering pump can get annoying if you are frequently removing the intake manifold.

As for FMIC, I've read there is some cutting/relocation necessary. Some kits I've seen require fog light deletion.

RMM is the same song as the 3's.

Rear diff mount isn't necessary if you aren't hard launching or pushing a lot of power. I never launch mine and only pushing roughly 320whp and recently started flat foot shifting...150k total miles, still stock mount.
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2006 MS6 GT - 159.7k Miles (Forged @ 157,116)
Manley 88mm Pistons & H-Tuff Rods, King Bearings
Stock Head/Cams, Stock Int/Exh Manifolds
Versatuner, 3-bar MAP, ITV22's, CP-e TMIC
CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Russian Bushings in Back, Poly FSB Bushings, Magnaflow CBE
JBR Tru-3.5/3-port EBCS/EGR-D
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2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015)
History:
2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So, in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44) apex seals said buh bye!
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)

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 Old 03-09-2018, 05:02 AM   #3
 
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gt gets you a sunroof, leather seats, and the fancy keycard setup(open/lock doors with handle button, no key needed to start). It also has nav as an option. I've had both the base and the gt and while I like the sunroof of the gt, I think the cloth seats held up better than my current leather ones and the base flip key is a ton cheaper to replace than the gt keycards. I'll add to that the keycards are much less durable than the flippers.

For tunes there are going to be some differences with the load and rpm tables. Also most 6s will put a little more power down low compared to the 3s as they dont have to worry about wheel spin.

Tons more work room, especially by the firewall. Big thing is we don't have to worry bout ecu relocation and such. Worst case you redrill and cut down the oem battery tray and you're good to go. The trade off is you have a big ass xfer case underneath that makes getting to things such as the block side oil drain bolts a feat of christ. Otherwise for turbo swaps the snail comes out the top/driverside fairly easy, making removing the block side drain bolts optional.
The driver side front corner is a football field once you pull the stock intake off. Plenty of room to put a meth tank and OCC. You have a ton up top and then the whole inner fender where the ms cai goes into from the factory.

P/S system is fairly easy(yes mechanical). the resevoir tank seal is prone to leaking, but hte rebuild kit(includes all the other seals as well) is $25 and fairly easy to do. Or a reman is around $75. That and the internal plunger seal cause 99% of the ps issues.

Check your xfer case for leaks at the halves. Common issue that requires removal and reseal. Usually they leak dry then grenade if not caught soon enough. If you have to do that you might as well do the caps as well. Those tend to crack, again grenade. That being said if the leak isnt bad you can just top it off every oil change to push the task out a bit.

Definitely suggest a RMM, durometer to taste. Diff mount is a good suggestion if you just DD the car and a req if you race it.
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 Old 03-09-2018, 06:55 AM   #4
 
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I came across few adds with P-S problems so i was curious because mine never fail on my first gen 3.

I will be happy for the added room then!
I will go get a look at one base model this weekend. Everything stock....I hope there isn't too much rust...(northern country )

Since i kept the parts from my old build, it won't be hard to bring that one in the 400 crank hp range but i plan for a bit more in the futur if it doesn't spin...

I was looking for a low price blown engine car to put my forged bloc in. But i found that these cars are also rusted or not taken care too much....So i will probably get a running one and run the stock internal for a while until it broke or until i replace the 2871 for x3071....

I plan to daily drive it with some hard pull from time to time and maybe few drag races passes during the summer just to get some printed numbers. So definitely engine mounts and diff mounts will be on my list.

Not impossible that i may try lapping sometimes, i did like it back in the days with a Probe. I wasn't feeling as much confident cornering with the 3 so i exept the 6 would be more fun for that if the weight isn't that bad...
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1993 Ford Probe KLZE 143dB
2012 Mazda3 Gs-sky 6.5l/100 when transporting speed parts
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 Old 03-09-2018, 08:04 AM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
it won't be hard to bring that one in the 400 crank hp range but i plan for a bit more in the futur if it doesn't spin...
"...if it doesn't spin"????
Pffff hahaha. WTF are you talking about? Do you daily drive on dirt or gravel?

I'm roughly at 400 crank and barely lose traction in the rain.

Get outta here with that FailWheelDrive nonsense.
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Manley 88mm Pistons & H-Tuff Rods, King Bearings
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2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015)
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 Old 03-09-2018, 10:54 AM   #6
 
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you got me wrong, i was trying to say: Because the 6 won't spin, it would be more tempting to replace the gt28 by bigger in a near futur....Even with gummy 245 tires it was difficult to use the gt28 potential at legal speed with the 3.
I'm not stupid, i want the 6 for traction even if i need more crank hp to achieve the same punch at higher speed.
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 Old 03-09-2018, 11:08 AM   #7
 
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As for handling its not too bad for an AWD car. Depends on setup. Lots of suspension development and trial/error by Code Monkey and Phate. Their threads are full of information.

I run H&R coilovers and like them a lot. I run zero toe front and rear. Makes for quick steering but the tradeoff is a bit more wandering over uneven road surfaces. Not bad at all really.

The Whiteline rear sway bar makes a huge difference in encouraging the rear to rotate more on corner exit. Night and day difference over stock. If you order a new one it can take up to 3 months to get one. Or you can check on the Facebook groups and maybe get lucky picking up a used one.

Overall you will find the limits with the above setup fairly quick! Unless you have deep pockets and can afford custom Fat Cat Motorsports custom valved shocks and custom spring setup. I find my setup more than enough for canyon runs at a safe pace.
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 Old 03-09-2018, 01:31 PM   #8
 
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I ordered my Whiteline new and had it in about 2 weeks. I don't recall from what store though. It's been sitting in my parts room for a few months. Along with both diff mounts and Russian bushings that I ordered over a year ago.
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Manley 88mm Pistons & H-Tuff Rods, King Bearings
Stock Head/Cams, Stock Int/Exh Manifolds
Versatuner, 3-bar MAP, ITV22's, CP-e TMIC
CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Russian Bushings in Back, Poly FSB Bushings, Magnaflow CBE
JBR Tru-3.5/3-port EBCS/EGR-D
Damond RMM/PMM/Stage 2 OCC/PCV Plate
AWR TMM on stand-by
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2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015)
History:
2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So, in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44) apex seals said buh bye!
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 03-09-2018, 01:50 PM   #9
 
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The only thing that totally sucks ass is the oil drain line if you go with a turbo that does not reuse the stock line.
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 Old 03-09-2018, 04:29 PM   #10
 
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True story. I had many scrapes and cramps trying to get that disconnected. Gave up. If you ever have the motor out, for whatever reason, might not be a bad idea to convert it to something serviceable and compatible with a big turbo.
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2006 MS6 GT - 159.7k Miles (Forged @ 157,116)
Manley 88mm Pistons & H-Tuff Rods, King Bearings
Stock Head/Cams, Stock Int/Exh Manifolds
Versatuner, 3-bar MAP, ITV22's, CP-e TMIC
CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Russian Bushings in Back, Poly FSB Bushings, Magnaflow CBE
JBR Tru-3.5/3-port EBCS/EGR-D
Damond RMM/PMM/Stage 2 OCC/PCV Plate
AWR TMM on stand-by
Other rides:
2002 Tacoma ExtCab 2.4L 5spd 2WD - 355k mile Parts Getter
2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015)
History:
2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So, in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44) apex seals said buh bye!
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 03-12-2018, 05:21 AM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
The only thing that totally sucks ass is the oil drain line if you go with a turbo that does not reuse the stock line.
I completely disagree......

It actually blows gasoline UP your ass then lights a match... which is almost the same level of pain you will experience getting those block side bolts off.
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 Old 03-12-2018, 07:17 AM   #12
 
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ok do the ANL adapter flange work good then ? I feel it was a pita to bend the oem return tube to fit on my 3...

I will have to try, i bought the one i checked yesterday. A bit of rust (hood and passagenr rear wheel arch) but i will have it repaired and then i will work on the mecanic. It is 100% stock so i will start my own project from the beggining again.

By the way, is a normal 6 hood fit there without the tmic or it is like the ms3 with totally different front end?
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2007 rusted Speed6... in progress...
1993 Ford Probe KLZE 143dB
2012 Mazda3 Gs-sky 6.5l/100 when transporting speed parts
1989 GM 6.2 diesel pickup
Wife drive 2010 CX7

2007 speed3 burned (i'm proud to ran 12.7s with it)

...Because French Canadian...
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 Old 03-12-2018, 07:46 AM   #13
 
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The whole front end is different.
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2006 MS6 GT - 159.7k Miles (Forged @ 157,116)
Manley 88mm Pistons & H-Tuff Rods, King Bearings
Stock Head/Cams, Stock Int/Exh Manifolds
Versatuner, 3-bar MAP, ITV22's, CP-e TMIC
CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Russian Bushings in Back, Poly FSB Bushings, Magnaflow CBE
JBR Tru-3.5/3-port EBCS/EGR-D
Damond RMM/PMM/Stage 2 OCC/PCV Plate
AWR TMM on stand-by
Other rides:
2002 Tacoma ExtCab 2.4L 5spd 2WD - 355k mile Parts Getter
2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015)
History:
2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So, in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44) apex seals said buh bye!
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 03-12-2018, 09:38 AM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
I ordered my Whiteline new and had it in about 2 weeks. I don't recall from what store though. It's been sitting in my parts room for a few months. Along with both diff mounts and Russian bushings that I ordered over a year ago.
Wow, that's awesome you were able to get it so quickly. They must have had made an extra one or you got lucky and found one in stock somewhere. Nice.

I had to wait 3 months as WL made it to order. Purchased through RPM a couple years ago.
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 Old 03-13-2018, 07:24 AM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
The whole front end is different.
Thanks, i was expecting it. It is just that a Speed6 hood is hard to find compared to the other.
I'll keep searching.
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 Old 03-14-2018, 05:50 AM   #16
 
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why do you need a hood? There are a ton around here from the salvage yards.

Best bet on the oil line is to chop it in half and use some high temp hosing. Its just a drain(no pressure) so other than the heat and maybe a few drops of oil from the ghetto connection it will work fine. I hear rumors that there may be a kit in the future from a vendor...cough...

Suspension is a bit more of a conundrum. For a DD setup I still think cut OEM springs with upgraded Bilsteins is the best solution. Coilover wise you are either looking at custom Fat Cats or custom KWs, so minimum $2,500US, which is really the only way to get springs rates worth a damn. Most on here have gone FCs, I've used KW v3s/customs on 2 track cars with good results.

On that note the next best springs recd on here are the CS, which just happen to be on ebay right now for dirt cheap. I almost bought them last night just because of hte price.
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 Old 03-14-2018, 06:43 AM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by GroceryGtr View Post
why do you need a hood? There are a ton around here from the salvage yards.

Best bet on the oil line is to chop it in half and use some high temp hosing. Its just a drain(no pressure) so other than the heat and maybe a few drops of oil from the ghetto connection it will work fine. I hear rumors that there may be a kit in the future from a vendor...cough...

Suspension is a bit more of a conundrum. For a DD setup I still think cut OEM springs with upgraded Bilsteins is the best solution. Coilover wise you are either looking at custom Fat Cats or custom KWs, so minimum $2,500US, which is really the only way to get springs rates worth a damn. Most on here have gone FCs, I've used KW v3s/customs on 2 track cars with good results.

On that note the next best springs recd on here are the CS, which just happen to be on ebay right now for dirt cheap. I almost bought them last night just because of hte price.
The hood on the car is too rusted to be repainted.

Thanks for the great infos btw.
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Mazda for life...or until i can afford something better...

2007 rusted Speed6... in progress...
1993 Ford Probe KLZE 143dB
2012 Mazda3 Gs-sky 6.5l/100 when transporting speed parts
1989 GM 6.2 diesel pickup
Wife drive 2010 CX7

2007 speed3 burned (i'm proud to ran 12.7s with it)

...Because French Canadian...
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 Old 03-20-2018, 09:03 AM   #18
 
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First drive with the 6 this weekend. Brakes are shot and i won't push it a lot until i review everything on the car but the first feeling was positive!

Runaway from a stop is awesome. A lot more quiet than a 3, i can listen to music at highway speed low volume. More comfort, my gf will prefer that one, she doesn't like the stiffness of my 3 but maybe i will manage something as it feel a bit floating on the road...Probably some wear on bushings.

I discovered a corksport downpipe with a separed wastegate tube and an electric cut-out installed. I wonder if this design is better than a larger downpipe. I Had a turbo XS on my 3 and not sure if the CS is better even if the main tube is smaller ? What you guys think?

CS DP :
https://corksport.com/corksport-powe...-downpipe.html

VS
T Xs DP
https://turboxs.com/exhaust/36-mazda...-downpipe.html
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Mazda for life...or until i can afford something better...

2007 rusted Speed6... in progress...
1993 Ford Probe KLZE 143dB
2012 Mazda3 Gs-sky 6.5l/100 when transporting speed parts
1989 GM 6.2 diesel pickup
Wife drive 2010 CX7

2007 speed3 burned (i'm proud to ran 12.7s with it)

...Because French Canadian...

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 Old 03-20-2018, 10:03 AM   #19
 
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Did the car come with a tune? If not, you need to tune for that DP asap, no WOT runs until you get a tune.
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 Old 03-20-2018, 10:10 AM   #20
 
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For reference, my car, stock catback with Corksport downpipe and Corksport resonator sounded stock. Inside and out.

Adding a Magnaflow CBE made all the difference that I'm looking for. Not too loud.
https://youtu.be/ekhxS-dEb2k

Currently estimated at 300-330whp. I plan on keeping that downpipe all the way to 450whp unless it gives me flow issues.
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1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44) apex seals said buh bye!
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 03-20-2018, 10:32 AM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
Did the car come with a tune? If not, you need to tune for that DP asap, no WOT runs until you get a tune.
Yes i will, Cobb helped me with my married AP so as soon as i get it, it will tune it with a lowered wastegate duty at low rpm.
I will swap pumps internals too
Next step would be to swap the gt28 with a new fmic kit or just change the ic core, install water meth and find RMM and a diff support.
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Mazda for life...or until i can afford something better...

2007 rusted Speed6... in progress...
1993 Ford Probe KLZE 143dB
2012 Mazda3 Gs-sky 6.5l/100 when transporting speed parts
1989 GM 6.2 diesel pickup
Wife drive 2010 CX7

2007 speed3 burned (i'm proud to ran 12.7s with it)

...Because French Canadian...
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