40 degrees above ambient... with a CP-e FMIC... Seriously??!

[Domino81]

So I'm having a hard time understanding how my newly aquired FMIC is HOTTER, yes, I said HOTTER driving around in morning traffic than my CP-e TMIC. Before doing the coolant bypass mod I was seeing 40 above ambient. Now I HAVE the coolant bypass done AND and I'm seeing 40 above ambient. That being said the MOMENT I'm under boost it shoots down to 90 degrees, and I was around 105 in 67 degree weather this morning. I was seeing pretty consistent 30 above after the coolant bypass with my TMIC.

[kritz]

Hmmmm, strange goings on. Meth next?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Domino81 So I'm having a hard time understanding how my newly aquired FMIC is HOTTER, yes, I said HOTTER driving around in morning traffic than my CP-e TMIC. Before doing the coolant bypass mod I was seeing 40 above ambient. Now I HAVE the coolant bypass done AND and I'm seeing 40 above ambient. That being said the MOMENT I'm under boost it shoots down to 90 degrees, and I was around 105 in 67 degree weather this morning. I was seeing pretty consistent 30 above after the coolant bypass with my TMIC.

This is a really interesting topic. I've seen this on countless cars, my own included. Another change you'll notice is that the radiator is now blocked some, and your ECT's will be notably higher.

One thing that does help is routing the coolant line that is likely resting on cold pipe connecting to the throttle body away from heating it.

Thanks to username Staybroke for the following thread (the part # listed seems somewhat universal and can be ordered from just about any online auto parts store):

High BAT fix.

Tokay444 and voltron...

Unless you need a very high CFM flowing core, for use with a BT, meth is the most effective way of cooling bat's without a doubt.

[StayBroke]

One more thing is: What core are you using?

I noticed a pretty nice change when going from a pg small core to a bigger core that needs a crash bar.

As stated ALOT, if you plan on staying stock turbo, just get a tmic and be set.

[Domino81]

Guess what I never got as part of the deal? CP-e makes a re-routed hose...

[adlpb]

My BAT's sitting in traffic, on a hot day (~90 degrees) with the gen2 cp-e FMIC are around 130. As soon as I start moving they drop to 120's, and if I go wot they stay around 105-110. These numbers are considerably lower than with my TMIC, or any comparable aftermarket TMIC for the genpu.

[dubunderpar]

Last night when we were driving it around after the clamp issues, I was surprised to see those temp numbers since it was only mid-upper 60's. I see meth in your future....

[p057]

This is what I would probably do, since I spend a lot of time thinking about doing the FMIC on my car.... one day.

Make sure all your pipes are sufficiently away from heat sources (coolant hoses, etc.) and if your intercooler is bumping uglies with your radiator, find some way to put spacers or some sort of material between the two to keep them apart and not touching so you're not constantly warming up the core, defeating its purpose. You can even try header wrap or heat reflection tape on most of the pipes you can get to so you can keep heat away from them.
My plan when going FMIC eventually is to wrap as much of my piping as possible with some sort of reflection tape, some sort of insulator, and then more reflection tape to make sure that any heat that tries to get through just doesn't. If you cant relocate a pipe, put something between it like a wider cut piece of silicone tubing. Doesn't transfer heat as much as direct contact, i'd think.

Good luck.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Domino81 Guess what I never got as part of the deal? CP-e makes a re-routed hose...

They do?

adlpb.. I agree our core is big enough to do some pretty serious cooling, but it is still ass backwards that a fmic, which you would expect to be better @ avoiding heatsoak due to its location, is exactly the opposite. LOL

[Domino81]

FWIW... it's DEFINITELY touching the lower radiator hose.

In fact, I had to shove it to the side to get the pipe to take up the same real estate the lower hose usually occupies.

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 They do? adlpb.. I agree our core is big enough to do some pretty serious cooling, but it is still ass backwards that a fmic, which you would expect to be better @ avoiding heatsoak due to its location, is exactly the opposite. LOL

In what way does it act the opposite?

I'm getting logs from TMIC Gen2's with BAT's in the 140's-160's after heat soaking. And their temps while sitting in traffic are worse than mine.

I don't think core size really makes a difference when you're sitting in traffic. If there's no airflow then the heat is going to be conducted through the metal. Once you get moving, convection will clear that out.

Originally Posted by Domino81 FWIW... it's DEFINITELY touching the lower radiator hose. In fact, I had to shove it to the side to get the pipe to take up the same real estate the lower hose usually occupies.

The cp-e design is strange.

A friend of mine who has the same car/FMIC has the radiator hose touching. Mine is about 1.5-2 inches away. It might all depend on how the user installs the hoses...

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by adlpb In what way does it act the opposite? I'm getting logs from TMIC Gen2's with BAT's in the 140's-160's after heat soaking. And their temps while sitting in traffic are worse than mine. I don't think core size really makes a difference when you're sitting in traffic. If there's no airflow then the heat is going to be conducted through the metal. Once you get moving, convection will clear that out. The cp-e design is strange. A friend of mine who has the same car/FMIC has the radiator hose touching. Mine is about 1.5-2 inches away. It might all depend on how the user installs the hoses...

I don't see that type of heat soak with a tmic most of the time, but you are in sunny FL, so maybe when the hotter weather hits, I'll be brutally reminded.

IIRC, my tmic bat's were < fmic bat's after sitting in traffic .

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I don't see that type of heat soak with a tmic most of the time, but you are in sunny FL, so maybe when the hotter weather hits, I'll be brutally reminded. IIRC, my tmic bat's were < fmic bat's after sitting in traffic .

Really?

Hmm...what are your BAT's sitting in traffic? Mine have never gone over 135 and that's pushing it.

With my OEM TMIC they were higher for sure.

[uncorked11]

Mine does the same thing. I do believe it drops in tempature faster the the stock TMIC. I have also adjusted the coolant pipe that used to rest on the cold pipe.

EDIT: I average about 95-105 on 55 mph roads during a 40 minute drive. In traffic I will see 120 dropping to 95 between stoplights

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by adlpb Really? Hmm...what are your BAT's sitting in traffic? Mine have never gone over 135 and that's pushing it. With my OEM TMIC they were higher for sure.

Maybe I just suck. That is totally possible. LOL.

In the summer, I can definitely hit 140* with 212 ect's fml.

I can't remember what my tmic was, but after heatsoaking, they were very close.

[Domino81]

Might be time to run water with water wetter or Royal Purple ice.

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Maybe I just suck. That is totally possible. LOL. In the summer, I can definitely hit 140* with 212 ect's fml. I can't remember what my tmic was, but after heatsoaking, they were very close.

Interesting. I was sitting in line after running AutoX this past weekend, so the engine was being pushed. BAT's 135, ECT's 205, ambient around 85.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Domino81 Might be time to run water with water wetter or Royal Purple ice.

Do you or adlpb have any experience running distilled water or a cooling agent like water wetter?

I'd like to do it if it helps in the summer time for sure.

[Tokay444]

Do not run water wetter in this car.

Also, the tmic design on this car in both Genwon and pu, is very effective and efficient. Albiet the core itself isn't that efficient, the placement and ducting do work extremely well even after you factor in that the core sits on top of a giant heat source.

I'm still trying to design a heat shield that goes under the core, and seals at the front, and is open and has a doward radius at the back, to promote the vacuum effect already present with the ducting and undertray, and isolate the core from that big heat source called an engine.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Do not run water wetter in this car. Also, the tmic design on this car in both Genwon and pu, is very effective and efficient. Albiet the core itself isn't that efficient, the placement and ducting do work extremely well even after you factor in that the core sits on top of a giant heat source. I'm still trying to design a heat shield that goes under the core, and seals at the front, and is open and has a doward radius at the back, to promote the vacuum effect already present with the ducting and undertray, and isolate the core from that big heat source called an engine.

Because of the coolant used from the factory and it's inability to mix?

[Domino81]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Do you or adlpb have any experience running distilled water or a cooling agent like water wetter? I'd like to do it if it helps in the summer time for sure.

If you use pure water, that alone from what I understand has a bigger coefficent of heat transfer.

[adlpb]

rfinkle2 Another reason why logically seeing FMIC's having equal/higher traffic BAT's than TMIC is that they have a larger surface area (specifically in piping). The piping sits all around the hot parts of the engine, which is more prone to absorb the heat. While the TMIC sits on top of the valve cover, but has considerably less piping. Just a thought.

Of course all this is negligible once you get moving and convection takes place.

[rfinkle2]

I think Tokay may be referring to the Mazda specific coolant that is factory fill in this car. I have read that water wetter and other coolant additives can gum the coolant system up if mixed with it.

(speaking for Tokay when I shouldn't be / don't have the engineering smartz LOL).

[Domino81]

I suspect it's like mixing green and orange coolants...

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Because of the coolant used from the factory and it's inability to mix?

Yes.
We get sludge, and people instantly assume they've blown a head gasket.
At 217 the fan kicks on anyway. It's if you start seeing coolant temps in the 230's you ought to be worried.
Putting tape, insulation, silicone in front of the radiator or behind the fmic core, is only going to limit air flow through those areas as well. Don't do it.

[Grumpyjap]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I think Tokay may be referring to the Mazda specific coolant that is factory fill in this car. I have read that water wetter and other coolant additives can gum the coolant system up if mixed with it. (speaking for Tokay when I shouldn't be LOL).

yeah water wetter mixed with coolant created a gummy residue. If you don;t completely flush all the coolant out it will react. I know from experience lol.

[f-castrillo]

I had more heatsoak on my CS TMIC vs. stock, until I installed the TIGs. I did the TB coolant bypass as well, but I don't think it had as significant an impact as the TB and IM TIGs did. I'm guessing the extra heat soak on the CS TMIC was due to the bigger core size... once it's heated up, that's a bigger mass of metal to cool off.

I still get the issue, actually, even with the TIGs and coolant bypass, if I drive somewhere, park for 20-30 mins, and drive off. My cruising BATs are easily over 120F under those conditions, and while the meth brings things down quickly for a moment, it heats back up pretty quick since the metal hasn't been given sufficient time to cool. Once it's cooled off, my cruising BATs aren't much different than IAT, which isn't that much higher than ambient.

[Monotonous ONE]

TIGs make an insane difference


get them asap

[Domino81]

???

What are TIG's?

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by Domino81 ??? What are TIG's?

Mazdaspeed 3 : James Barone Racing, Custom Fabrication

Some say they work, some say they don't. If you have to remove your manifold for injector seals/porting/cleaning, you might as well put them on.

[amoosenamedhank]

Regardless of which Air/Air intercooler setup you choose, if you aren't moving, there's no airflow..... and if there's no airflow, then there isn't going to be a cooling effect.

The intercooler design should be judged by its ability to recover and bring your BATs back down once you've started moving again.

[Domino81]

Originally Posted by adlpb Mazdaspeed 3 : James Barone Racing, Custom Fabrication Some say they work, some say they don't. If you have to remove your manifold for injector seals/porting/cleaning, you might as well put them on.

The moment I posted then closed the thread I thought of that...

[Tokay444]

I see bat's in the 170's in situations where I drive, park, and drive again.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank Regardless of which Air/Air intercooler setup you choose, if you aren't moving, there's no airflow..... and if there's no airflow, then there isn't going to be a cooling effect. The intercooler design should be judged by its ability to recover and bring your BATs back down once you've started moving again.

I hope this doesn't come out douchey, but I'd rather have an intercooler that heat soaks to 140, and can only cool to 120, than have a core that heatsoaks to 200 but has the ability to cool down to 120, but I totally understand where you are coming from.

I'm most interested in time spent / bat.

[Domino81]

Gaawwwwddd, Rob... what a douchey thing to say... :scoff:

[sick_role]

not trying to derail here; but why aren't more people spraying their top mounts? I know a few on here have done it but I thought there'd be more. Has it been decided that it's not worth the effort of adding a jug, a few nozzles, and tapping/running a switch to a power source?

To me, that seems a lot easier than even installing a front mount...then again I'm not good at smarts.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by sick_role not trying to derail here; but why aren't more people spraying their top mounts? I know a few on here have done it but I thought there'd be more. Has it been decided that it's not worth the effort of adding a jug, a few nozzles, and tapping/running a switch to a power source? To me, that seems a lot easier than even installing a front mount...then again I'm not good at smarts.

Spray the actual intercooler for water evaporation or meth into the cold pipe?

[sick_role]

The actual intercooler w/ water & alc. or is that equal work to meth into CP for less reward?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by sick_role The actual intercooler w/ water & alc. or is that equal work to meth into CP for less reward?

Spraying meth (or h20) into the intake tract is definitely going to have a greater effect than on top of the intercooler, BUT, that doesn't mean that spraying the actual IC with water wouldn't help.

IIRC, previous generation WRX STI's actually came with an IC sprayer stock.

If I was going to get a spray bar though, I'd spray C02 on the intercooler rather than h20.

The kit is pretty cheap too.

[ricknm]

I had that problem too until I realized that throughout my very anal job of making sure every clamp was tight, I somehow managed to forget to check the last coupler that attached to the turbo. DUH. boost leak = high bats. I fixed that the next day. But I do still see high bats as well.