Big turbo chicken thread
 

Where are all the guys with the big turbos?

This car has been out now for 1 1/2 years, weve got boltup kits of several different sizes, weve got cars that boast smoking, roasted shit turbos with the seals going almost immediately, and nobody is willing to slap a big turbo on, except Jon...lol. Who knows what the hell happened there.

I dont get it really.

I had never modded a car to any real degree before..... so maybe i did it because i didnt realize how "dangerous" it supposedly was, but now that its on and Im about to get my first oil change... im surprised there hasnt been anybody who has pulled the triggger. several guys are building their engines... then it goes on. But I think Ive proven you dont "have" to have it done. Ive driven it hard, autoxed it, smacked the gears, driven it with massive fuel cuts, boost leaks, you name it...lol This motor is tougher than we might think.

ive got a new intercooler and water/meth kit in the mail as I speak... im going for 400 on my next dyno... before I stop. I may not drive it at that level but I'll have the map sitting there anytime I want to "flip it on"... and all the time Im doing this.... Im alone. 350whp will be my "safe" tune. Its weird.

We got ms6 guys running gt30's and doing fine. Now even Whoosh with his gt35. Sure some have popped. Bad tunes, no tunes, no cdfp upgrades, you name it. all the stupid shit you can imagine. but bottom line is a gt30, cdfp, and standback.... bam... youre golden if you keep it safe..... and not necessarily go for the "huge" numbers.

anyway.... I could see if you were just afraid to blow the motor because you couldnt afford to replace it. But other than that, whats the holdup?

you guys chickens? I want some company. i want to see where I stand with a big turbo crowd.

A lot of us are just struggling to make ends meet and make payments on our cars. The economy is in the shitter and gas prices are sky high. Not everyone has a money tree in thier backyard.

That being said I already have a low low low 12 second car and will be modding the MS3 in the future to see what it can do. My money tree is just a dwarf right now but someday it will have more "leaves"

PS: disregard this post I just need the $1000 to play in the casino.:headbang:

I conceded that money is a BIG, legitimate reason why you wouldnt do this. Number two would be like enganear here locally.... he likes his car stock... hes made big numbers elsewhere and the stock ms3 is a really great car of and by itself, or with just a few supporting mods.

This post is for all the guys who push the shit out of their cars, only to stop at the most obvious final step... where money is not part of the equation. I dont see why youd build the engine first. Why not wear the hell out of the stock internals.... drop a built engine in after youve pushed the envelope as far as it will go. If youre capable of building it yourself.... I could understand the couple of thousand savings being a motivation.... but short of that. I just dont get it.

It would be small company with a BT... I cant believe more guys havent pulled the trigger. I really, really would like to see the news that more ms3s were taking the plunge.

Lets hear all the excuses. cats got your tongue? bawk, bawk.... chickens.. lol Im picking a fight on a "stay at home" friday night.

I have a 1200 cc sport bike.

I know it's different but long story short, if I want to reel off a 10 second 1/4 mile, I'll just hop on that.

I wouldn't upgrade the turbo on my MS3 because I lack the knowledge, and local tuning support to facilitate that. It's not something that terribly interests me.

fair enough, local support is huge. I KNOW I wouldnt be where I am without the support I get. All the forums in the world, no offense guys... aint worth some real faces that know what the hell theyre doing....

this question is mostly for all the guys with

intake
intercooler
tbe
cdfp
....and a little personal experience.

just add a piggyback and a turbo.... babbamm.... 350 whp and giggles. Its not like thats really all that extreme.

I bought my MS3 for a daily driver, I already have a fun car... and my wife reminds me of that fact constantly....

It's a fun daily driver and it will stay that way until my next daily comes along....

F$%*ing taxes FTL!

<---can't afford to blow up and spend 8k on a new motor/turbo whatever other misc parts

if i had the cash and a decent local tuner that i completely trusted i would easily do it, just to say i did. but i also don't care about hitting 400 or 500 hp. i just want a respectably fast car. i think with what i have planned this month i should and won't go any farther for a while till i can pick something else up and can build the shit out of this motor.

i should say i've been watching and following turbo crowds for a while and as much as i think you've got a huge rite to say "hey are you guys chicken?" i think you have to look at it like this. a lot of guys here have been through the building and tuning game for a while and have seen motors blow and don't want to go through that and are doing preventive measures so in the long run when they throw on the big turbo they don't get a fist size hole in their block and dents in their hoods from rods shooting through. i myself have seen my brother blow 2 4g63's and friends blow various v8's and 4 bangers and rotaries. i'm not all about blowing my motor. its not that fun. and i think with the options out there right now that possibility is huge.

i think you happen to be one of the lucky few, who have managed to use the CP-E standback for tuning and had it work correctly and have a decent tuner to get that shit working correctly with the big turbo. i'm way interested in your progress especially with your next purchases coming in. the meth and new ic should prove to be huge gain for you and hopefully that meth should keep you extra safe.

I think a lot of people will be running big wheel stockers and because they are good for basically as much power as other, more expensive turbos, don't see the point in just not going with the upgraded stockers.

i'll believe a big wheel stocker is as good as a gt30 when I see it. The one turbo is twice the size of the other...lol

sure the stocker may improve power a little.... I know initially around 30 hp was discussed. Now their saying 350+?.... i say bullshit. And thats no offense to the guys who are saying it... I think we really dont know.

But even if somehow they coulda rigged the damn thing up for power like that... how long will it last? Shaft play, hot air, seal issues again.... who knows. I'll just believe it when I see it. I still havent seen one fucking dyno anywhere yet... NOT ONE!!

Well, we will see Dynos soon on the little K04's with their steroid mod. Hopefully it will add power, but im doubting 350+ as well.

I think consistent dynos will come in around.... 310-320, on fully bolted cars. That will be a 20-30 whp gain.... and nothing to snicker at, but definitely not BT either.

I'll add... I can see why most people arent going the route that I am... but Im still surprised really that there are NO others that have. Theres a relative army of ms6 guys, but no ms3ers. Its weird. Plus it constantly makes me feel like im doing something stupid... or dumb. I keep questioning my car.... i wish there were just 4-5 more guys anyway.

I think another factor in the discrepancy between BT MS3 and MS6 guys is that the MS3 seems to be at least a bit more exciting in stock trim. For the MS6 guys, we have so much drivetrain loss that we need to make up for it somehow.

Sticking my fist through Jon's block definitely put a damper on my BT plans. But the main holdup for me is lack of a flashed based tuning solution. I come from DSMs and VWs, so I'm inherently biased against CPE's standback. I'm glad you've had as much success as you've had with it, but it's not the route for me.

Ive been talking to Miles Hechtman from Front Line Tuning in Santa Clara, Ca. They are full Cobb/Unichip tuners. They will be entering the MS3 market shortly. Miles said it would be about 6 months out until Cobb tuner shops will be able to tune these cars in house. So, perhaps this will help many of us looking for good, solid tuning down the road. Hopefully, they will chime in soon and talk about it.

i need a fuel pump.. i am ready to do it, but mrlilguy is backed up with 25 kits on order, i dont like the PG and the CPE wont keep up.

I already arranged a time and date with the tuner but I cant do this without fuel.. I am ordering the turbo some time this week and already have a FMIC, Manifold, dp,rp, mbc, bov, coilovers, etc.. i just need to order up the turbo, FP and standback

if someone wants to give up their pump or spot on the group buy I will have this done in 2 weeks, BUT.. until I get my hands on a fuel pump, i cant do it. I have the money in Paypal waiting to order the turbo.. just no pump :(

i already blew one motor because of this fuel pump bullshit and dont feel like driving my other car for two and a half fucking months again:261:

i also dont really want the 3071.. i want at least the 3076 or preferably the gt35r.. but since i already have the dp and manifold it is just easier for me to go with the 71 :( :(

I've got no excuse, i came, i saw,i blew up!!!! thank you come again!!!

i sell you mine 450 plus shipping so 460!!!

i think my soon to arrive PG reworked k04 is gonna dissappoint a few big turbo owners. it will spool up faster and hold pretty much the same boost up top......and for 1/3 the price ! the throttle plate and other goofy nannies will keep the big turbo cars and reworked turbo cars very close performance wise. thats my bet.

i just checked atp's site..

and well... there is a bolt on gt35r and gt3076 on their site FOR the ms3.. hollaaa :D

oh and truboost.. we dont care about your shaddy clipped turbo junk.. This isnt a AWD car.. I want my turbo to spool LATER so I dont end up in tire smoke every time. Say you DO make more power, earlier.. can you get traction? I would rather make it a bit later, at higher speeds and gain that bit of traction.

and even though you are "holding the same boost" you are not pushing the same amount of air.. therefor your theory is completely wrong

and i pmed you ms3guy ;)

the larger impeller will make it flow more air, but not as much as a "big" turbo. and i have slicks... i get traction. what about from a roll like a street race. yes i street race lets not start a pussy fight about that too. i will spool up and be gone before you get boost on a 30xx turbo.
the throttle plate is always gonna have the final say, so what would you prefer ???
a rebuilt turbo that will spool faster and give you a larger powerband... 2500-6000rpm,
or a "big" turbo that will spool at 3500rpm and still fall on its face at 5500-6k ? therefore the smaller turbo would have a full 1000 rpm of better powerband.
i also have a new forge WGA. that and my new turbo will make my spool up silly fast.
am i gonna bitch and cry about it ? booo hooo i got no traction ? no i will man up, put some good tires on the car, or the slicks at the track. you gotta work with what you got. if you want a 2000 rpm powerband...go for it ! face it the ms3 is not a revv machine and will never make gobs of power up top. low to mid range is where you can take advantage of what this car is capable of.

both set-ups still need a tune

tune schmoon..... i'm going to run mine with no tuning but a map clamp.
PG told me 2 weeks and they will have my turbo and CS downpipe.
reset the ECU let it relearn, gradually work it into boost, and all will be well.
once my TMIC arrives i will dyno again and share results.

:pat:

There is NO need for this kind of shit talk. There are plenty of people on here who are interested in reworked stock turbo's. Not everyone has the money or want to go big turbo, so keep that in mind.

Are there any applications where a "reworked stock turbo" makes the same power as say... a gt30? How can we even compare the two considering especially... we dont even know what the reworked stockers will do? I think a gt2871 would be my choice if i wanted all that power earlier in the power band.

BTW... i raced derek88 with my shitty gt30 and he pulled less than a car on a fourth gear role before mine hit. This whole argument about power band makes no sense considering that nobody races from 2500-6500 .... IN EVERY GEAR...lol The bigger turbos might lose a car on the start(worst case)... but it would be game over after that.

yeah... no shit talking either way please... although this thread was kind of made with the intent to goad a few dudes into the mix...lol

Im excited to see the results of all these reworked stockers. I still say 310-320 on an average car.... average dyno. DADAs dynos earlier only showed like 15whp with the reworked stocker.... little better powerband though. Whats everybody else think?

I rarely street race and when i do, its from a dig 98% of the time... I personally, would go 2871 when im ready. Also, im the type of guy who goes to the tracks with slicks, not radials. Its a waste of money and time.

Ive heard many claim that going to a strip with radials makes you a better racer on the street. I dont agree with this. Once you learn the capabilities of your car, you will be the better driver when you can run hard on street tires without blowing the tires off. Slicks help you figure out where big power hits, so you know what to expect on street tires.

palerider...i am in no way saying the gt30 is shitty and i respect you for having the balls to do it. i am just saying for myself i dont think it was the best option. the reworked stockers are supposed to be able to run 22-23psi efficiently (i may be wrong, but i think that is what ATP claims for the 3071 also) all while having faster than stock spool up. it is a lot better than some are giving it credit for. and i understand that you arent going to need the whole powerband in every gear, but it does come into play when going from a roll. and if the modded k04 car has the balls and is pushing it over 20psi (as i will work it up to) i dont think a gt30 with similar supporting mods would be able to close the gap, not in a hurry anyways.

rofl.. once that throttle plate is under control, with fuel the car will make power far past 6200.

Unfortunitally you would need a tune to experience that.

And IMO.. If Garrett says clipped wheels are the antichrist, I will take their word over Ken's.. Sorry.

And you are mistaken if you think the gt30 is this big, late spooling turbo.. yes it is bigger than the k04, but the kind of late spool and shit you are thinking of is like gt45+ stuff.. Subarus also have a small powerband like ours.. but modded ones on big turbos with proper tuning can make power to 7800 and heavily built ones can go to 9k.. Where there is a will (and money) there is a way. Just because your trottle plate closes on the stocker with no tune, doesnt mean ours with a little honing and bench work, REAL forged internals, fuel and a tune cant

AND a gt30 doesnt take very long to spool..especially the 71. BUT considering my goals are different than yours.. garrett turbo vs hack turbo and 40 roll with street tires vs 4k drop on slicks.. I agree to disagree.

and I wasnt shit talking in my last post, I was putting the facts out there. I didnt bash any companies, I simply expressed my opinion on how shaddy clipped wheels are. THIS is why you guys created this site. My opinion is that if something is going to be spooling at 10k+ RPM only inches from my firewall.. I would like to know that it was done VERY VERY well and if Garrett.. who seem to have made a turbo or two in their history, frown upon it.. then that is all i need to hear.

garrett says clipping is bad becaus it can reduce spool up time. this is 100% true. that is why a much lighter wheel is used along with it. the lighter wheel will give back any spool up lost to the clipping, and thats why the turbo performs so much better up top.
i also plan on avoiding new internals. so why pay all that $$ for a gt30 when i can achieve the power i want on the reworked k04 ? this big high end power you mention when the throttle position fairy comes will be useless when your rods spew out on the interstate. if you have a built block, then great, but without it, you have a shit ton of wasted potential.

Well the deal is we just dont know how these clipped turbos are gonna go. Dadasracecar showed a ms6 making 15 more horsepower at one less psi than the stocker at 17 psi... 18 for the stocker.

I'll beleive the stocker is efficient at 22-23 psi when I see it. Side by side with a gt30 there was just no fucking way you could ever view them comparably. The reworked stockers are getting alot of play because their cheap and very profitable for the vendors who are working them. The hype is like....wow.

I just want ot see some results first.

if they are like they claim.... and they can last a while... then shit, I might even regret my gt30. but for now, i aint drinking the juice. it was a month ago when everybody was saying 20-30 hp max. and thats what reworked turbos get in other applications.

my turbo will be in soon, all i am really waiting on is my damn IC. i will post my results as always. i have also heard the 20-30 HP estimte, but that is at stock boost. a reworked turbo should make 20-30 more hp at 15psi than a stock turbo. that being said and the fact it can go to higher boost levels more efficiently makes it worth while IMO.

well ... dadas car made 20-25 less at18psi. So you figure you tack on another 3 psi or so you got about 290 on an ms6.... and then you got maybe 310-320 on a ms3.

Those would be great numbers...imo. but theyd be disappointing the way ive heard fucking 350+ floated around here lately...lol Again... maybe Im wrong. but im sure looking foward to when all these numbers come in. Its a damn shame ms3guy22 blew his car.

We talking crank or wheel?

But I agree

im scared to slap on a big turbo. this motor is either perfect and has no problems for some or for others its a big pile of crap. i am working backwards and doing the fuel pump, then pistons/rods, then fmic and finally a big turbo or big wheel stocker. PALERIDER your car kicks ass i wanna have mine like that someday...

wheel.

Go to dadas thread with the dynos.. he made 262 pulling timing at 18psi. The reworked stocker made 276 at 17 psi with all his timing.

The damn thing aint making that much more. dada made 280 before he started pulling timing to run safer. Id say the reworked stockers may have a lot of explaining to do when guys all of a sudden aint seeing anything but a little more band for their 700 dollars.

This could really go either way. go read Dadas thread from this perspective... you'll see what i mean. that guy over there was pissed with his results. And thats the first dyno weve had for a reworked stocker that ive seen.

Boost pressure is boost pressure, it does not matter whether it comes from a big or small turbo or a pressure tank for that matter. The difference in performance seen with different pressures is due to the pressure required in the exhaust manifold to develop the pressure across the impeller. A small turbo requires more pressure across the exhaust turbine to develop the same pressure across the intake impeller as a large turbo.

This is the reason a big turbo at 15 psi can make the same horsepower as a small turbo at 18 psi (don't hold me to these numbers, just estimates). The boost pressure of the small turbo is higher, but you are losing power on the exhaust side due to the exhaust pushing against a smaller diameter turbine.

Everything is a compromise. Larger wheels couple to the exhaust and intake gases better, but spool more slowly. I look forward to seeing what can be done to get more power out of the K04, but there is no doubt the big turbo makes a lot of sense if big dyno numbers are the primary goal. Performance increase with exhaust wheel clipping is counter-intuitive, but I am the last person that will argue with empirical results.
-enganear

Ken told me 25 psi max out of the turbo. I plan to run that much or at least try... if the blows up, I'll hold him responsible.
this is what he sent me, like a day before it blew up
this is copied and pasted from my pm :
max psi? i am sure its good to 25+ psi but lets not blow up the bottom end

looking back at it, it's really not that funny

I don't get why you think the gt30 is laggy. I don't really consider my 35r that laggy and im at 8.1:1 compression.

J, whats your powerband like?

the gt30 is NOT laggy. I start feeling some hard pull in the low 3000's and by 3800-4000.... you forget there ever was any. The only time it feels bad is if you bog.... and then it just means you forgot to shift.

I have 10-12psi by 4000 and by 4400-4600 i usually have full boost...i havent datalog'd in a while and my rpms just sky rocket once you hit 8psi. by 3800 rpms ur already pinned in your seat. when my second head gets back from dee at reactive racing I will be able to rev to 8500rpms so i'll have full boost from 4500-8500 rpms. should make for a fun day at moroso the first time i go back :)

I would love to be rev my car up to 8k......now how do i do that?

Well its easier for me. I just have to build my head and have springs retainers and valves that can flow enough to tolerate it. That and a turbo that is efficient in those ranges. You guys have to many issues since you have fuel problems as it is and the throttle plate issue. on pump gas i make 404whp just under 5000 rpms so i'll realistically have a 3600rpm span of 404whp. i make 310whp by 3800rpms and 250 by 3000 rpms so i should have a solid FAST 5000rpms in each gear. i am hoping to be able to do 12.2 or 12.3 with this setup on pump gas and steet tires. and then im gonna add water meth at the end of the year to try for 10s on slicks

the next question im gonna ask is COMPLETELY just out of curiousity...im not trying to start anything. is the majority of this site all protege garage fan boys?

This site has fanbois from all the companies. Cpe has their cheerleaders here, pg has theirs, streetunit has theirs ect ect

whats bugging me here is that you go read what the ms6 guys are doing and the come read what the ms3 guys are doing and you see the same mods but less power on the ms6 guys. i honestly think that the three guys are apples and the six guys are oranges. i don't think we can really look at what they are doing and expect the same on our cars for whatever reason. the three guys are making 30 or so more horse with less mods than the six guys in some cases. case in point Laloosh and Driver.

day of release we can get custom tunes made for the Accessport thanks to our friends here in Chicago named P&L.

say what? Dont drop that little tidbit and then runaway zach. how the hell will this be done?

red:i thought they weren't going to release tuning software till the AP sold enough units.

and J at this point I'm a fan of whoever can get the parts at the lowest rate. Shit I ran onlyTXS for almost a year........... fmic, tbe, sri.
Than i started ordering things from PG..Ken just has the things i'm loking for at the prices at I could afford. I think at this point i've bought things from every major vendor. I've had 2xfmic 3xsri 2xdp 1xmid pipe 3xbov/pbv 2xcbe 2x rear engine mount ..... i'm pretty much a parts whore.
p.s. nice street unit sticker j/k

I'm saving up for fuel pump upgrade right now. I also prefer the responsiveness of a smaller turbo for daily driving. If I eventually am able to afford another daily driver, I will probably go with a larger turbo.

I dont think P&L is going to be able to do that since ive now confirmed with 2 Cobb tuners in Ca that tuning software will not be ready for the MS3 for a few months. If they are going to be able to do that for you guys, im sure a lot of Cobb tuners will be raising their eyebrows...

oh i wont deny im an SU fanboy. cullen is probably one of my closest friends so of course im going to support him. the only reason i dont support ken is because he confused me with someone else and then bashed on me for asking for free parts when i already was fully built under sponsorship from hiboost turbos...he claimed i wanted him to GIVE me everything...i dont think i've ever asked any company to give me anything...anyways but ya i was just curious...i actually really enjoy these forums. theres no bickering like the m3f board. if you look at my posts over there im always a dick cuz im so tired of the same shit over and over but here its so much better and so much calmer and just friendly people with friendly attitudes. i sometimes feel like i shouldnt post because i have different components but w/e heh...i just wish some guys were closer. id love to film me running some of the faster speed3's

Ive been sponsored on several vehicles and never paid a dime afterwards for parts/tuning. You have to get to a certain point and prove you are worthy to get kickdown's.

Oh believe me i know. I've saved 12 grand now as a result of sponsorships...it took me being boosted and fully built to start getting attention. At that point I got things under cost, labor free, some parts, free (only from 2 of my sponsors) but I more than make up for it for them. For example, tbk performance (brother of juan from hiboost) has had to 11k builds, sold about 9 kits, and 3 gears as a result of sponsoring me.

They are beta testing the software for COBB. It helps to have friends with connections.

Ahh, well there it is. Are they going to hook you guys up than?

So what is the final diagnosis on your engine? I last saw that you had a very wicked metallic sound that ramped with RPM. Did you find you actually toasted your engine? If so what failed?

Tks,

yeah these forums are much better, i was getting tired of people asking stupid questions on other forums like if they need to use premium gas....DUH. Well your car is a beast man I am sure it would give the faster speed's more than a run for their money.:love:

PG fanboi here, but that has nothing to do with my turbo choice. i could have gotten a gt 30 from them for a steal too, but that isnt what i wanted. now that i hear people saying "its not bad i have full boost by 4k!) i say HOLY SHIT THAT IS LAGGY !! with my set up, which keep in mind still has a stock intercooler and downpipe i can have a full 20PSI by 3k. now with the new forge WGA and turbo, DP, and IC on its way i only expect it to get better !

I definately would not want full boost by 3000rpm. I would never stop spinning. I have a quaife lsd which FAR out performs the speed3's oem lsd and I still have trouble keeping traction in certain conditions. I have a 35r and spool from about 2800rpms on. I make wastegate (6psi) by 3600 I would guess and my full 16psi on pump gas by 4400. On days where there is little humidity (i live in miami so its almost always 100%) i spin my tires STARTiNG at 5000rpms because it gets so torquey up top for me. If i were to have full boost at 3000rpms I would have a useless daily driver. To say that you are happy spooling at 3k its like saying your happy not making big power. Your turbo (I am guessing still the stock k04) is completely innefficient at 20psi. Not only will it be flowing excessively hot air but it doesnt flow that much air to make good power at that boost pressure. I don't know why people think 4000 and 4400 rpms to hit full boost is laggy. If i punch it in second gear at 30 or 3rd gear at 45 you may get a car jump on me but within 1 second i will be next to you and the next second 2 cars in front of you. Lag is bad - I do agree. But a properly sized turbo and a good tune allowing for a decent spool up (and yes full boost by 4400 on a car that revs to 7k and now revs to 8500 since i built the head) is a GREAT spool. I would MUCH prefer 1000rpm later spool for a much more efficient and powerful turbo. While you spin I'll maintain traction. Once you stop spinning I'll be in full boost. Now don't get me wrong. I LOVE the speed3. If it had been out when i started building my car I would have gotten it. I am glad i didn't because of how tricky it is to mod it and go big b/c of fuel issues but its a great car. I just love the platform I started on. I had to build my motor and tranny but to go big on the speed3 you have to as well. I make 400+whp daily and it will be more once the new head is on. To have that you will have to build your block as well. I would say the tranny might not hold up as well but thats up in the air because your gears are stronger than mine were stock so I had to get billet 3rds and 4ths since i snapped so many stock ones. Anyways....this is why i like this forum...much more intelligent bickering as opposed to m3f where its people with no knowledge making statements :)

the last thing i want on this car is faster spool downlow.... I want that lag till high 3s low 4s. This motor doesnt like to be loaded up downlow.

I agree!!!! This is the same reason I argued the gt30 or even the gt35 may be safer than the 2871 in previous discussion. Of course not at full bosst, but like Whoosh and I are doing it.

I still dont have that lean spot that was so noticeable with my old turbo and these mods.... even tuned. The fuel we dump goes in and stays in...whether its the standback doing it or the later spool... who cares.

Id bet that lean spot is the motor killer in all of this if I had to bet.

^the best i could do, to fix the lean spot was 12.6 before 4k...guess that doesn't help the motor blowing up.

In what way does the quaife lsd "far outperform" the ms3 lsd? Just curious.

oh, and with huge power, you still arent going to have traction at 4000rpm in a fwd car, as srt dudes, they spin through third with bigger, laggier turbos. wheels spin is an inevitability no matter how your car is tuned when you are fwd, the real answer is stickier tires, not laggy turbos. Run 245 dr's in front and enjoy the boost more. I do agree with loosh though about the low rpm load, this car hates it, anyone who has got on the gas when in fifth at 50 or so or in sixth at 60 or so knows this. Car feels like it's going to shit it's guts all over the place, this car just isn't a huge fan of boost, like I have always said. I can't comment on guys with upgraded cdfp's, but stock, this car seems like it pissed off about being boosted.

the quaife lsd in my tranny is aftermarket and is a true mechanical / gear'd lsd...the one in the speed if im not mistaken is electronically controlled...

nope it's not electronically controlled

what kind of LSD is it?

cone-type Super LSD limited slip differential.

yeah... but the issue isnt at 4000 its more like 3000-3500. I'll go look at my old dynos, but if full boost is on in that range, I just dont think we have enough fuel there to support a turbo fully spooled in that range.

Yes, cone clutch, like an Auburn, except without much preload....
-enganear

According to cobb there is no throttle plate closing problem and the dropoff of power is due to the turbo running out of air. So I will ask in this thread are you guys with big turbos making power till redline?

I have driven Paleriders beast. It was pulling like a scalded ape at 6600 rpm in 4th with no signs of dropping off, in fact it seemed to be pulling harder as the tach climbed (or maybe I was running out of 2-lane road, its all a blur....).
-enganear

It does in fact fall off after 6400 rpms... but only down to about 300whp.... then the real drop off is after about 6600.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/h.../346whprpm.jpg

on this particular subject i.e. the throttle plate
I'm going to have to say that Cobb doesn't know what they are talking about

at 5000 RPM my plate is open over 80%
at 6000 RPM mid 60% open
anything past 6200 it drops like a sack of potatoes
that's at 20PSI on my GT turbo

although the car is seemingly still pulling hard and it is in comparo to the stock turbo...you are actually losing power>big time

I think its a combo issue. The TP is closing, and the stock turbo is leaving its compressor map, and blowing hot air.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...pressormap.jpg

Whoosh,
Do you know if anyone actually watched the TP on the speed6's to see if it had the 110-115% issue that the standard 6s's had? I remember that twowheeling did some experiments with the 6s Throttlebody, and found the plate actually went past the 0 mark (with 0 being 100% open and completely flat -- ) and actually started to close again. ie, at max throttle input, the car would be at 115%, which was actually 85% (because it started closing again as it went past the 0 mark)

Below is an exaggeration, due to lack of degree options with text. :)

Closed [ \ ]
Open [ / ]

This was one of the reasons a large # of owners felt the car was faster with less then max throttle input. (ie accelerated faster with partial input over full input).

double post

anyone else see the bolt on 3076 and gt35r on ATPs site??

Thats what I have been waiting for. I am about a week and a half out from ordering the turbo, EMS, and fuel pump.

So what should I run? I have wanted the 35r since I got this car and whoosh is having some luck with it, but it is also $200 more than the 3076, which I think will get me where I want to be. BUT a gt35r is.. a fricken 35r..

Any what are you guys running for inlet pipes? I dont want to run the ATP one because it is a 3" tube that uses a 3" to 4" silicone adapter and is pretty expensive.

I already have the TXS DP/RP/RFL BOV, PG Manifold, Corksport FMIC and Cobb Intake.


And anyone have a fuel pump avaliable ASAP? I cant wait on a list for one. Ive needed it for a while, but no one has one around. Anyone know if PG has them in stock? Are they still even making theirs, or is MRLILGUY doing it??

35R would be my choice... At least, you can talk to Whoosh and pretty much duplicate his setup without issue.

Yea, I really like the 35r. If they are in fact avaliable, I am going to order one this week, then try and hunt down a fuel pump.

Whoosh definitally knows his shit and has already helped me a ton

without a doubt, go 35R.

mrlilguy makes them for pg

well.. my new engine blew on tuesday.. i was going to order everything today.. Pretty much fucked. No clue how.. last time was fuel for sure but this was just random and is no doubt the worst blown engine I have seen out of anyone posting on here. 5 half dollar sized holes in the block and 3 or more spots that look like and earthquake hit and caused the block to split and open into MANY parts. Pieces of the engine everywhere.

Lots of souit (?) on the o2 sensors and all in the exhaust. Grey and pretty thick. Oil all over the front back and on top of the engine.

So I will be PMing a handful of you guys on here. I am still going with the gt35r, but I will be building a new shortblock with forged internals, etc ALOT earlier than I planned. Pretty much the same price to get all OEM/ Stock stuff put in compared to the built engine. Going to have to save for the next few months to even get started :(

Cant believe this engine blew. I didnt fucking even drive it hard. Both times the engines have blown, have been in 5th gear. First time at 4900rpm and this time at roughly 3300rpm. Engine lasted about a month. Never once took it over 5000rpm. Not once.

One blew when I was 18 (blew in Mid February, 2.5 months in the shop), now I am 19 :birthday: and I get to spend the next year paying off my engine. :no: If any banks will even give a 19 year old kid a $10K loan for a blown engine on a non warrantied 2007 model car.

uber fucked

What were you mods that caused it to blow and most importantly, did you have the upgraded CDFP?

more details please..... this is just odd. I dont think they are blowing for the reasons we would normally suspect.

Definitely need more info.......mods.......... were you just driving normally when it went or were you getting on it? We need ALL the deatails (complete explanation)

According to his profile he has a TXS DP and RP with stock CBE. No mention of anything else.

this blows...
sorry to hear about your engine failure
I picked out the most disturbing part of your write up....it's really messed up Zoom

the only thing i can take a stab at is, he has a fucked fuel pump. that is the only logical thing that can be said since his motor is blowing with stock boost. He is having a fuel problem.

Car had the TXS DP/RP, Corksport FMIC and Cobb SRI.

Was in 6th at 60 or so. Downshifted to 5th and went from 60-65 gently and boom. Really all it was. No damn clue.

Fuel pump failed last time, but was replaced and flashed.

How lame is that!? Didnt even get to do anything cool while blowing it up this time! But there is oil EVERYWHERE. It is still dripping off, 3 days later.

There's definitely something wrong in your fuel setup. I wouldnt even drive it with the new forged engine until you can figure out what it is. Possibly an injector now that you have the new fuel pump/solenoid.

if fuel pressure drops the throttle closes.

Guaranteed shipment of parts for fuel pumps to me by next friday, hopefully earlier. Machinist got an earful. I asked the rep - "what happens if that guarantee isn't met?". He said, "nothing. the guarantee is an absolute 100% guarantee. Your order will be fulfilled by next Friday at the absolute latest."

Could it have anything to do with the carbon buildup in our engines? I know when they replaced my engine, they only replaced the block/internals. Wasnt a complete rebuild.

If it was an injector problem, wouldnt I at least get a code?

Not always. Ive seen injectors goto shit with no codes at all. If you have had a pump and you blew the second engine, something tells me, you have a fuel problem.

Yes, I completely agree.

So what do you guys propose as the best way to attack this?

I almost want to get a PG "Forged Engine" But 5Gs seems like an awful lot for a stock block, crank, bearings with some forged rods and pistons.

I dont know what the pricing is like or what I will entirely need. Clearly the block is gone as well as the internals.. But what CAN I reuse? The head, valve cover, "fuel pump", etc?

I know the going rate is around $2500 to pull the stock engine, build it and replace it (not counting parts). But that is with a working engine...

Where do I start? This is super easy to get done with a working car.. but the current status has me overwhelmed.:pat:

Well since you trashed the block, thats roughly $1200 right there. You will need to examine the crank and see if its ok. I would send it out to a machine shop and be sure its in good shape. Rods and Pistons will run you roughly $1700 or so... The heat should be good, but examine it.

Building an engine isnt cheap. $5000 is a lot for a shortblock, but what you have to realize is, their are no one else offering assembled shortblocks for these cars.

I could put my own engine together, so aside from the cost of the parts and machining, i would be in the $2500 neighborhood.