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 Old 08-08-2018, 02:48 AM   #1
 
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Default Bnr s4 installed now my car wonít start without jumping the starter

So I got my bnr s4 in along with these mods ported intake manifold, xspower turbo manifold, HTP 3.5” intake, corksport injector seals, Damond motorsports rear motor mount, turbo smart dual port blowoff valve, autotech high pressure fuel pump internals, cpe catted downpipe, grimmspeed 3 Port electronic boost controller, cx racing front mount intercooler, guardian angel v3, and I think a 3bar map sensor ( came with the manifold and I forgot to ask, it is a Bosch sensor). I got it all together and when I tried to start it nothing happens, all my interior lights turn on and everything but I’m not getting anything to the starter. So I jumped the starter and once I get it started it dies in about 2-3 seconds. I even have a mechanic helping me with this and he doesn’t know. All the fuses tested ok. He has almost run out of ideas. Just looking for some helpful ideas as to why it is doing this. I also have no throttle response, I can’t just press the gas to keep it running.

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 Old 08-08-2018, 04:28 AM   #2
 
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Do you have a tune for that 3.5" intake? If not that may be why it dies right away. Check wiring harness again. Did you take out the ground by the HPFP?
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:07 AM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by KiwiFlavor View Post
Do you have a tune for that 3.5" intake? If not that may be why it dies right away. Check wiring harness again. Did you take out the ground by the HPFP?
I do not have a tune yet. I was just looking to make sure it would start before I moved on to getting a tune. I did ask on one of the Mazdaspeed Facebook groups last night and they recommended to get a tune. I ordered one last night but Iím more worried about why it wonít start with the key. I have to jump the starter selonoid for it to turn over
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:16 AM   #4
 
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Ok, you CERTAINLY need a tune. When you have bigger intake than stock, you're going to need MAF CAL or the car won't even idle.

Im not sure tho if that could be the cause of your no-start issue. Try unplugging the MAF sensor and see if it starts without it.
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:18 AM   #5
 
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wait wait wait, you put in a bigger turbo, and a bunch of mods, and then thought the car would start without a tune? wow.
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:19 AM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by KiwiFlavor View Post
Ok, you CERTAINLY need a tune. When you have bigger intake than stock, you're going to need MAF CAL or the car won't even idle.

Im not sure tho if that could be the cause of your no-start issue. Try unplugging the MAF sensor and see if it starts without it.
Ok, Iíll try that after work. I understand how the MAF would not let it idle but how would it not allow it to start because it canít read air flow if there is none. The motor wonít turn over. I can hear the fuel pump but thatís it
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:19 AM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by Clay46 View Post
I do not have a tune yet.
What in the world led you to believe you could drive a car modified to this extent on a stock tune? The intake alone is going to prevent your car from running, never mind all the other stuff. Do you even understand how electronic boost control works? Next time try doing a little reading before just bolting a bunch of stuff onto your car and expecting it to work...
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:19 AM   #8
 
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:23 AM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by MD1032 View Post
What in the world led you to believe you could drive a car modified to this extent on a stock tune? The intake alone is going to prevent your car from running, never mind all the other stuff. Do you even understand how electronic boost control works? Next time try doing a little reading before just bolting a bunch of stuff onto your car and expecting it to work...
I am not looking to drive it. I was looking to make sure it would start. I know I can’t drive it like that. I just figured it would still idle. As most cars would do after mods. The boost controller isn’t hooked up yet. I just have a line that connects the compressor housing to the actuator and then plugged the hole on the intake.

Nowhere did I state that I planned on pulling it out of the garage and go driving around in it

Last edited by Clay46; 08-08-2018 at 05:24 AM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:24 AM   #10
 
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.... there's so much wrong here... lol
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:26 AM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by maisonvi View Post
wait wait wait, you put in a bigger turbo, and a bunch of mods, and then thought the car would start without a tune? wow.
So your saying that because of a bigger turbo I canít even use the key to Start it
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:28 AM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by Clay46 View Post
So your saying that because of a bigger turbo I canít even use the key to Start it
It's not just the bigger turbo man...

You need a tune for the intake, the 3 port EBCS, and also your 3 bar map sensor....
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:30 AM   #13
 
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So if I get a tune then the key will work to start it?

Originally Posted by KiwiFlavor View Post
It's not just the bigger turbo man...

You need a tune for the intake, the 3 port EBCS, and also your 3 bar map sensor....
I understand that but how would that make the car not allow the key to be used for starting. I understand it would do that once itís started and then die

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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:32 AM   #14
 
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You can start there first.

If not then maybe your starter is crapping out. Idk if this is relevant, but again, did you mess with any ground wire at all?

EDIT: Actually nvm, ground wire will let you crank, but it won't start.
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:34 AM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by KiwiFlavor View Post
You can start there first.

If not then maybe your starter is crapping out. Idk if this is relevant, but again, did you mess with any ground wire at all?

EDIT: Actually nvm, ground wire will let you crank, but it won't start.
I did not touch any of the grounds but the starter seems fine because I can jump the solenoid on the starter to get it to turn over I just canít get the key to work
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 Old 08-08-2018, 05:47 AM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Clay46 View Post
I understand that but how would that make the car not allow the key to be used for starting. I understand it would do that once itís started and then die
This is a MAF-based car. Fueling, boost control, everything is calculated and driven by the MAF signal. This is why MAF calibration is the first thing we do when tuning these cars, and why your car won't run at all right now. The car is expecting a certain amount of air to be going into the engine at the MAF voltage it detects while it's cranking and starting, and right now a completely different amount is going in because you have a 3.5" intake that's flowing a lot more air at the same MAF voltage than the stock 2.5" intake. The ECU can use the primary O2 sensor to make small corrections in fueling (because MAF sensors inherently have error), but not the level we're looking at between a 2.5" and a 3.5" intake. You're literally flowing like double the amount of air at the same voltage.
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 Old 08-08-2018, 06:12 AM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by MD1032 View Post
This is a MAF-based car. Fueling, boost control, everything is calculated and driven by the MAF signal. This is why MAF calibration is the first thing we do when tuning these cars, and why your car won't run at all right now. The car is expecting a certain amount of air to be going into the engine at the MAF voltage it detects while it's cranking and starting, and right now a completely different amount is going in because you have a 3.5" intake that's flowing a lot more air at the same MAF voltage than the stock 2.5" intake. The ECU can use the primary O2 sensor to make small corrections in fueling (because MAF sensors inherently have error), but not the level we're looking at between a 2.5" and a 3.5" intake. You're literally flowing like double the amount of air at the same voltage.
Ok, I still donít understand how that would affect the key not engaging the starter but Iíll start with getting a tune
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 Old 08-08-2018, 07:22 AM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by Clay46 View Post
Ok, I still don’t understand how that would affect the key not engaging the starter but I’ll start with getting a tune

Hi, yes you're right. If the starter won't engage, there are some other problems beyond the tune.

It's quite common on this platform for the car not to start after being pulled apart and put back together. Keep trying, double check all of your plugs and harnesses. Often times it's just a plug that needs a wiggle or a faulty ground.

Have a look at some of the 'Car won't start' threads on here for ideas.

As far as the tune goes, one of the etuners on here will be able to send you a base map that suits the larger MAF housing, hopefully this will allow it to idle once you've got it to the point where it's tuning over with the key. Best of luck to you sir.
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Originally Posted by Clay46 View Post
Ok, I still donít understand how that would affect the key not engaging the starter but Iíll start with getting a tune
Exactly what Spectrix said. Personally I would NEVER start my car with all those mods without a base tune first. I would be very upset if my engine got fucked because I was not properly prepared and impatient. That should have been the very first thing you bought.

Sounds to me like the clutch switch on the pedal or you left a connector off somewhere. Ensure that all wires and grounds are G2G.

Good luck!! You'll be loving it once its tuned.
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 Old 08-08-2018, 12:54 PM   #20
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Bruh, don't report posts just because they are right. You can't go big turbo without a base tune at the least. It just won't run.
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 Old 08-08-2018, 12:57 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by MS3Shadow View Post
Bruh, don't report posts just because they are right. You can't go big turbo without a base tune at the least. It just won't run.
Ok I understand that but my problem is that Iím not getting any power from the key to the starter. Like I had stated I am not trying to drive it. Iím just trying to figure out why the key wonít work to start it
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 Old 08-08-2018, 01:25 PM   #22
 
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All I will say is that OP is very lucky that he has the starter problem. Not being able to start was a guardian angel looking our for his ass. Otherwise, he'd be trying to drive it, trying to find some way to keep it running while he explored his yet to be found base map from a custom tuner for his big turbo setup.

He should be very thankful that the starter issue saved his ass.

Now, OP, get with one of the custom e-Tuners here, line up a base map that will be a safe place to begin with your mods.

Chances are high that the starter issue is probably going to be a ground wire left unconnected or a poor ground connection somewhere during the install.
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 Old 08-08-2018, 01:47 PM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
All I will say is that OP is very lucky that he has the starter problem. Not being able to start was a guardian angel looking our for his ass. Otherwise, he'd be trying to drive it, trying to find some way to keep it running while he explored his yet to be found base map from a custom tuner for his big turbo setup.

He should be very thankful that the starter issue saved his ass.

Now, OP, get with one of the custom e-Tuners here, line up a base map that will be a safe place to begin with your mods.

Chances are high that the starter issue is probably going to be a ground wire left unconnected or a poor ground connection somewhere during the install.
Iíve already contacted a tuner as stated above and as stated above I have gotten it startedit just dies right away. Also I didnít have to mess with any of the grounds so I doubt its a ground
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 Old 08-08-2018, 02:44 PM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by Clay46 View Post
Iíve already contacted a tuner as stated above and as stated above I have gotten it startedit just dies right away. Also I didnít have to mess with any of the grounds so I doubt its a ground
If you removed the HPFP you did have to remove a ground. But what do we know? We're trying to help here.....
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 Old 08-08-2018, 03:11 PM   #25
 
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Originally Posted by Thor Hammer View Post
If you removed the HPFP you did have to remove a ground. But what do we know? We're trying to help here.....
If I removed a ground while doing that then I am unaware that there was a ground that I disconnected. I donít know every little detail about these cars. Iíve only owned one for about 9 months.

Originally Posted by Thor Hammer View Post
If you removed the HPFP you did have to remove a ground. But what do we know? We're trying to help here.....
And also as I stated above I have had the car running. If the fuel pump wasnít grounded I would have not had fuel right? But if itís starting by jumping the solenoid then the fuel pump is good.

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 Old 08-08-2018, 03:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Clay46 View Post
If I removed a ground while doing that then I am unaware that there was a ground that I disconnected. I don’t know every little detail about these cars. I’ve only owned one for about 9 months.



And also as I stated above I have had the car running. If the fuel pump wasn’t grounded I would have not had fuel right? But if it’s starting by jumping the solenoid then the fuel pump is good.
If the high-pressure fuel pump wasn't grounded, (and therefore not operational), you might still be getting enough pressure from the in-tank pump to start the car, but not to let it idle.

Given all the shit that you touched on your car, it's likely that you've got a missing ground wire. If the car won't crank without applying power directly to the starter, then the likelihood is that your starter isn't properly grounded. It's easy to knock the starter ground off while removing and/or installing an intake manifold.

Moreover, if the HPFP isn't properly grounded (which also might be the case here), then even if you got the car started, it shouldn't stay running.

EVEN IF you get the car started at this point, it WILL NOT MAINTAIN idle. The 3.5" ID of the intake you installed is too large for the ECU to compensate for. You absolutely 100% need a custom tune for the car to even hold an idle for more than a couple of seconds.

Edit: Also, don't report posts just because you think they're offensive or insensitive due to the fact that they are telling you factual information about your car that you don't want to hear.
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 Old 08-09-2018, 06:34 AM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by Clay46 View Post
If I removed a ground while doing that then I am unaware that there was a ground that I disconnected. I don’t know every little detail about these cars. I’ve only owned one for about 9 months.



And also as I stated above I have had the car running. If the fuel pump wasn’t grounded I would have not had fuel right? But if it’s starting by jumping the solenoid then the fuel pump is good.
Wrong. You came here for help. We are giving you that help. You want to challenge the advice. That's ok, but will not solve your problem. Please stop arguing and start listening. Your time would be well-served in tracking down the weak or disconnected ground.

People here have been living with these cars daily for ten years or more in many cases, having bought them new off the showroom floor. These cars are very mature platform. The technical knowledge here is deep.
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 Old 08-09-2018, 08:16 AM   #28
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
Wrong. You came here for help. We are giving you that help. You want to challenge the advice. That's ok, but will not solve your problem. Please stop arguing and start listening. Your time would be well-served in tracking down the weak or disconnected ground.

People here have been living with these cars daily for ten years or more in many cases, having bought them new off the showroom floor. These cars are very mature platform. The technical knowledge here is deep.
Ok, well t ended up being a wire on the starter was lose or dirty because after fixing nothing and just unhooking the wire the mechanic had rigged up to bypass the key switch and plugging the connector back on it worked
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 Old 08-09-2018, 09:54 AM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by Clay46 View Post
Ok, well t ended up being a wire on the starter was lose or dirty because after fixing nothing and just unhooking the wire the mechanic had rigged up to bypass the key switch and plugging the connector back on it worked
Wow, all that going back and forth, getting defensive, etc, etc, over a bad connection. Imagine that.

Now tune that bitch and get your roll on! Post back here with your impressions with the new setup.
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