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 Old 06-12-2018, 09:43 PM   #41
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
I like that routing, but I would have both cans VTA.
Why?

The one routing provides vacuum while cruising and the other releases excess pressure under boost.

Both VTA on a S4 is overkill.
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 Old 06-13-2018, 06:35 AM   #42
 
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The check valves I've seen have a somewhat small orifice to allow GOOD flow for pressure release.

The non-vented can does nothing when in boost. The air in those lines is stagnant. If the can was vented, with a check valve on the filter of course, it can then play a role in venting crankcase pressure.
Is there such a thing as too much venting? I don't think so.
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 Old 06-13-2018, 07:34 AM   #43
 
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Originally Posted by Solarsurge View Post
The S4 is SUPER sensitive to crank case pressure. It doesn't take much to blow out oil. I would STRONGLY recommend a PCV plate and using Damond's OCC routing diagram pictured here. Also, check your AFRs. If you're running rich, you might see some blue smoke.
why is the check valve on the green path not after the Valve cover ? Since the right occ is vented, the intake could suck air thru the engine by the VC and occ filter ?



Fstrnyou sometimes peoples don't like the oil smell when venting out.
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 Old 06-13-2018, 07:44 AM   #44
 
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The filter has its own check valve.
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 Old 06-13-2018, 07:47 AM   #45
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
Fstrnyou sometimes peoples don't like the oil smell when venting out.
If you don't like oil smells, you bought the wrong car lol
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 Old 06-13-2018, 01:56 PM   #46
 
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Originally Posted by Solarsurge View Post
If you don't like oil smells, you bought the wrong car lol
i know, but it get worst when venting VTA....especially if occ filter is high in the engine bay...
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 Old 06-13-2018, 02:01 PM   #47
 
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Okay, in that case...
Route all VTA hoses to a charcoal filter.
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 Old 06-13-2018, 03:20 PM   #48
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Okay, in that case...
Route all VTA hoses to a charcoal filter.
Fill catch cans 1/2 way with Febreeze
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 Old 06-14-2018, 05:19 AM   #49
 
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Originally Posted by Solarsurge View Post
The S4 is SUPER sensitive to crank case pressure. It doesn't take much to blow out oil. I would STRONGLY recommend a PCV plate and using Damond's OCC routing diagram pictured here. Also, check your AFRs. If you're running rich, you might see some blue smoke.
This looks promising! I ordered a DM PCV plate and another DM vented can. I'll give this routing option a try.
My only concern is the vent right off the block potentially spraying oil everywhere. Have you tried this method?

I target and hold 11.8:1 all the way to 6700 rpm, so it isn't super rich. It's clear when the turbo smokes, as it's a whitish blue color.
Thanks!

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
I like that routing, but I would have both cans VTA.
I agree! it looks like it will retain good vacuum under all driving conditions. I currently have a DM vented can, so with the DM plate I will be able to figure out which routing option works best for pressure relief, ultimately allowing oil to drain out of the turbski efficiently. I thought the breather cap and vented can alone would be enough. Hopefully the plate will solve the issue.

On their website, they show the back side of the plate, and you can really see just how small of a hole the PCV valve has. Those other two big holes on the plate should definitely help.
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 Old 06-14-2018, 05:52 AM   #50
 
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Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 View Post
My only concern is the vent right off the block potentially spraying oil everywhere. Have you tried this method
at worst if it happen, you can extend the hose length and rise the filter height? i don't know if the DM plate have baffle for it already? I would expect they made something that works
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 Old 06-14-2018, 05:56 AM   #51
 
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I had one at intake level without issues
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 Old 06-14-2018, 09:57 AM   #52
 
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The crank case is seeing typically 2-5 psi at most. It's not gonna spray anything. It might spit a tiny bit here and there, but that's what the filter is for. 5 psi up the turbo oil return, on the other hand, is enough to make it flow backward since it's a gravity feed. It's kind of like blowing air bubbles into a beverage with a straw.
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 Old 06-14-2018, 06:11 PM   #53
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
I had one at intake level without issues
Nice custom work right there!

Originally Posted by Solarsurge View Post
The crank case is seeing typically 2-5 psi at most. It's not gonna spray anything. It might spit a tiny bit here and there, but that's what the filter is for. 5 psi up the turbo oil return, on the other hand, is enough to make it flow backward since it's a gravity feed. It's kind of like blowing air bubbles into a beverage with a straw.
Man you are smart! The nice thing about the Damond Motorsports PCV plate having two additional ports is that there are many routing options. I was also considering this one to prevent oil spray yet retain oem vacuum sources:
Damond Motorsports PCV route 3.png
I would have both cans vented and was thinking of running a 5/8" hose off the top vent on the secondary can, and teeing it into the hose between the valve cover and turbo inlet for added vacuum when the check valve on top of the can opens. I may do this with the routing option you posted as well.

I'll have to do some testing to see which routing option rewards me with a clear rear view
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 Old 06-15-2018, 05:44 AM   #54
 
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Your setup would work but personally, i think the original is better.

In the original, The occ breather is there mostly in case the return isn't able to take all the blow-by but in your setup, all the crank case blow-by will have to get out from the occ filter, (there is no ''return'' )
And you are no longer separating the oil out of the valve cover vapors so the intake path will get the oem level of oil inside the tubes.
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 Old 06-15-2018, 09:55 AM   #55
 
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Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 View Post
Ok so a little update...

Smoking is still happening only at WOT but has improved a little bit. It's worse if the oil hasn't fully warmed up. Compression was checked and resulted in 180 psi across all 4 cylinders. I've removed oil return line and verified no blockage in the line, engine block, and turbo cartridge. Puffs of whitish blueish smoke occur more noticeably if I hit the throttle hard as opposed to gradually going WOT. It's also noticebly smokey if I hit the rev limiter (accidentally). It seems very much related to crankcase pressure as it only happens at WOT. If I rev the engine out to high rpm at part throttle to raise oil pressure, it doesn't smoke at all.

Things that have helped but not fully cured the issue:

1. Gen 2 valve cover w/ Sp63 oil breather cap; VC breather still routed to turbo inlet for vacuum
2. DM stage 2 vented catch can with vent routed to turbo inlet for added vacuum
3. Oil restrictor bolt from BNR (smaller hole than JBR bolt)
4. Switching back to 5w30 (was running 5w40 Rotella T6) as it drains out of the turbo more efficiently as per Bryan.

I really don't want to have to send it out to Bryan to get rebuilt. Has anyone had a similar issue with the S4? If so what was your solution?

Thanks!
Erik
I recommend a leak down test to confirm the health of your engine. On my 3 I had burning oil issues and sometimes smoking. At this point I tested the compression and saw 180 - 185 PSI on all 4 cylinders. I then made a leak down tester and checked my engine and I was surprised to see 2 cylinders had ~40% leak and the other 2 had 20 -30% leak. From there I had no choice but to rebuild the engine and during the tear down I saw that all 4 pistons had cracked ring lands.

In my case, the burning oil issue was from the crankcase pressurizing and oil blowing past the rings. Also, since the crankcase was experiencing excessive pressure, my turbo wasn't draining properly, and this cause it to seep into the compressor housing.
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 Old 06-15-2018, 01:50 PM   #56
 
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Originally Posted by Polish_Eagle View Post
I recommend a leak down test to confirm the health of your engine. On my 3 I had burning oil issues and sometimes smoking. At this point I tested the compression and saw 180 - 185 PSI on all 4 cylinders. I then made a leak down tester and checked my engine and I was surprised to see 2 cylinders had ~40% leak and the other 2 had 20 -30% leak. From there I had no choice but to rebuild the engine and during the tear down I saw that all 4 pistons had cracked ring lands.

In my case, the burning oil issue was from the crankcase pressurizing and oil blowing past the rings. Also, since the crankcase was experiencing excessive pressure, my turbo wasn't draining properly, and this cause it to seep into the compressor housing.
Thanks man! I will definitely do a leak down test. In your case since having had all 4 ringlands cracked, when did you notice smoke and the most oil consumption? Was it mainly at WOT, or even at cruising and part throttle?

The reason I ask is because my engine consumes virtually no oil or cause smoking when cruising around at part throttle. It's mainly at WOT, and has gotten much better since installing a vented catch can and the sp63 oil breather cap.

FWIW we know oil pressure increases with rpm, and I can hold the rpm really high at part throttle to about 5000 rpm and see no smoke out the tail pipe. The smoking occurs only under load, which gives me a sense that my ringlands are not cracked

Thanks!
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 Old 06-17-2018, 05:07 AM   #57
 
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If I remember correctly the smoke was just at WOT, part throttle and cruising were fine. Also, the smoke wasn't really visible by me, it was my buddies driving behind me telling me they smell burnt oil and see a bluish smoke when I went WOT. As for oil consumption, the most was also definitely at WOT, but the rest of the time it was sipping small amounts.

If you have a valve cover breather, check the filter on it, and see if it's soaked in oil. Mine would get soaked with oil and then spray all over the engine bay (it got worse with time).

If I were you, I would definitely do a leakdown test to either determine the pistons are done or rule out that problem. A leakdown test will tell you the most about the engine health as it will identify problems throughout.
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Mine wasn't burning much oil with #3 cracked. Mostly under wot and less than 250ml at oil change. I ran it a bit more than a year before rebuilding it.
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Originally Posted by Polish_Eagle View Post
If I remember correctly the smoke was just at WOT, part throttle and cruising were fine. Also, the smoke wasn't really visible by me, it was my buddies driving behind me telling me they smell burnt oil and see a bluish smoke when I went WOT. As for oil consumption, the most was also definitely at WOT, but the rest of the time it was sipping small amounts.

If you have a valve cover breather, check the filter on it, and see if it's soaked in oil. Mine would get soaked with oil and then spray all over the engine bay (it got worse with time).

If I were you, I would definitely do a leakdown test to either determine the pistons are done or rule out that problem. A leakdown test will tell you the most about the engine health as it will identify problems throughout.
Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
Mine wasn't burning much oil with #3 cracked. Mostly under wot and less than 250ml at oil change. I ran it a bit more than a year before rebuilding it.
I've got no oil at all coming from the valve cover breather hose, but all this talk of cracked ringlands is starting to get me worried. Like you said, we will have to see the results of the leak down test and then go from there. I baby the car when it comes to tuning it and never do back to back pulls without some cool down driving in between. I've been tuning the car since the beginning and wouldn't be happy if I found out that my ringlands were cracked because I've never made more than 330 whp and I monitor knock on the daily. I hope it's just the S4 being sensitive to 'normal' crankcase pressure but we will see
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I get smoke at WOT as well but with the CS turbo. As others have said, I can't see it from the driver's seat.
It was first mentioned to me a bit over a year ago when the turbo was fresh and only pushing about 280whp @18psi.
Compression has always tested good but have yet to do a leak-down test.
I'm pushing it a bit harder now. In this summer heat, I'm guessing about 320whp @22psi.
Smoke or not, I send it daily.
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lol ringland won't break for nothing....When I broke mine, i made a tuning error and for just 2 pull in third gear it break. Too much boost without enough fuel and octane... the knock break 3 spark plug at the same time too. Lesson learned!
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 Old Yesterday, 07:32 PM   #62
 
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Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 View Post
I've got no oil at all coming from the valve cover breather hose, but all this talk of cracked ringlands is starting to get me worried. Like you said, we will have to see the results of the leak down test and then go from there. I baby the car when it comes to tuning it and never do back to back pulls without some cool down driving in between. I've been tuning the car since the beginning and wouldn't be happy if I found out that my ringlands were cracked because I've never made more than 330 whp and I monitor knock on the daily. I hope it's just the S4 being sensitive to 'normal' crankcase pressure but we will see
Well it's not horsepower, the main problem is the increased cylinder temps when increasing boost and/or timing. Our OEM ring gaps are very tight and eventually crack the ringlands from the increased heat.
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