GT2871R
 

Why are more people not going this route in regards to a turbo? Any ideas?

Because its powerlevels suck. its a small turbo that wont be much different from stock. I guess if you feel like blowing 1500bucks to be a tiny bit faster....go for it lol

yeah, if you are gonna spend your money on that, you might as well get a GT3071 or the 35 like laloosh.... From what i read the GT3071 doesnt have as much lag as you would think and can breath really well up top..

I think the 28 will have much more potential once we can get a lot more fuel available, build a motor and run a lot more boost. You can't judge a turbo that is meant to run 20+ psi when people are only driving around boost 16 or so lbs.

The 28 will be ideal for autoxing where mid range is more important than top end. I think another thing that scares people away from it is the fact that its only a few hundred more to get one of the big boys. The people that are really experimenting with car right now are more concerned with having a dyno queen that can go fast in a straight line.

Someone just needs to come out with a t T3/T4 ewg turbo/manifold kit for this car already so we can get some more options.

spend a little more for the 30/35 or save HALF and get a rebuilt stocker. The 28 doesn't seem to serve much more purpose than the rebuilt stockers out there.... especially not enough to cover the $700 price difference....

I used the rebuilt stocker as my gap-filler til I step up to a 30/35 - or BWS2xx through Steedspeed when that eventually hits

rebuilt stocker for 900 isn't worth it chris could have hit 340 plus on his stocker but he won't mention why probably. Only reason im not making anymore power is cause honestly i don't have an real power mods. BC,intake,DP+MP. GT28's max out at around 400whp but 350-380 is what they can make safely or with out effort.

The 2871 is unproven yet.
Once we have a car with full flow mods, forged internals, some head work and more fuel (injectors), that is running this turbo above 20 psi, I think you all might be surprised. The focus community has had great success with this turbo, they have cars putting down 350+whp from a 2.0.
Personally I am interested in a car with great mid range and lots of torque, so I chose the 2871.
Having viewed a 2871 and a 3071 side by side I can tell you that the differences are not as great as you might think. The entire GT series makes the stocker look like it came off a matchbox car...lol.
And as far as the comparison between the reworked stocker and the Gt2871...there isn't one. Having run both those turbos I can say with great certainty the 2871 knocks it's socks off, even at 17 psi.
Going bigger will def get you more power, but there is always a trade off for that. Who knows, I may decide to go bigger, but not until I unlock all the gt28's potential.

I don't doubt the power the GT28 can make but if people plan on wanting to make at least 400 with out trying to hard A GT30 should be considered first if there going to throw out that kind of money

Very true, it is all about your goals.

My boys srt-4 with a gT28rs dose between 370-385 on 23 psi from what i've seen all the times he's dyno'd. it did 430 on 28 psi and meth. No one here wants to run 28 psi on meth all the time I would think. And remember they run 8:1 compression I believe

so were talking about building the engine with flow mods and putting a 28 on there? Once again why? for a couple extra hundred you can get a 3076 or 35 and blow the doors off a 28.

Midrange power is nothing but gearing related. As the tuning solution increase we will be able to rev higher. With the 35 on there my car already feels different, you have to drive it different. Sure the 28 might be a better autox turbo, or a daily driver if you feel like building boost and shifting by 4k....who the hell does that anyway? If your going to blow the money, step up and get one of the bigger GT series

once again loosh.. its about personal goals.. i have a 28 waiting install right now... im not tracking my car and i really dont race people on the streets to much, and i could give a flying fuck if i ever make it over 400 whp, because its not important to me and it not going to happen on that turbo. it will be a great improvement over my smokey ass stock turbo that mazda wont take care of, and frankly, i dont feel the need to try to be the fastest person on the internet, as long as my car gives me some thrills... and my main goals are efficiency, and most importantly, safety of the car.
i guess thats why im "ok" with 28.

we weren't talking about what makes you happy we were talking about making power vs turbo cost

this must be a personal opinion, but i would feel safer running a 35 at 17psi vs a 28 on 17psi. Back pressure and the earlier spool is the name of the game with this engine. Then again i could be wrong and throw a rod on the way home

and i was talking about why someone might want a 28 vs. a bigger turbo, because thats what the OP asked.

and we said that cause of the cost of a 28 vs a 30 you might as well get the 30 so you have the room to get even more power if you want. Theres only a small amount of people who buy a 1200 dollar turbo just to get another 30whp as the long term goal. it always comes down to "If your going to spend the money you might as well......"

alright... different strokes for different folks i guess...
but for me, buying a 28 for 1,000 dollars with inlet pipe and all the shit i got with it, i would say that it is a much better option than paying 900 for a reworked stocker.


and too laloosh.. good point, but dont throw a rod on your way home!!! (you have rods and pistons on car yet?)

not yet, im waiting for whoosh to do all the work lol

I totally agree with you for a gt28 vs a reworked stocker no doubt but my friend with the gt28 a year later wishes he just got the 30 or 35 now hes too lazy to go try and take off and sell the 28

solid plan... that guys just going to pioneer everything on this fuckin car.
good luck with those, things going to be insane. what psi you going to run at when its all said and done?

23-25

who knows, i might want more and upgrade later, but for now im just too damn excited to get that fucker on my car... when i first held that thing in my hands, my first thoughts where "damn, and this is only the 28?".
hopefully it doesnt come to that though. im not trying to go too big here..

So for a specific application like autocross, would the GT30 be reasonable or would you have to stay in the GT28 range?

I'm an autocrosser...as much as I love all out power and acceleration, I need to maintain my ride to be competitive in the autocross realm and track environment.

Will the GT30 screw me over...?

you wont be competive in the class a changed turbo puts you into either way. a 35 will suck at auto...a 30 will probably suck as well lol

So you're saying I'm stuck with the GT28...?
I'm not talking about being competative in a National caliber...more state.
I already dominate the DSP class...though, I've basically been the only car in that class... :rotf::rofl2:

I'm thinking STU or SM...mostly modded STis and EVOs...which I do currently keep up with.

considering it would put you in a class with supercharged corvettes, probably.

you will get pwned in either stu or sm lol. no turbo is going to help you there. honestly if you main goal is autox, stick to the stock turbo and focus on suspension w the biggest tire allowed

damn...i couldnt agree with u more on this chris.....unless u jam some 285 in the front u will have no chance in sm

i like 2871s. had great success with them before, hitting 400 on a .64 a/r without running stupid high boost, but it did require cams, and it was in a 2.0litre engine that had more of a top end powerband, but also had good times with them in 2.4litre engines.

the .86a/r was the better route to go for most wanting to shoot just over 400whp, and the lag difference between the .64a/r and .86a/r isn't that bad, IIRC, not more than 400-500rpm (didn't matter most of the time when going to 8000).


for autocross, if i had to go larger and pick, i'd go 2871 over a 3071, unless the 3071 was twin scroll :D but either way, the bump in class will kill you, and being the modded stockers can make close to what a 2871 makes, i don't know if the 2871 will really be a big favorite on DISI MZRs.

but it's true, it will come down to personal preference. i've gotten past my peak power days and want an all around non-stop smiling type of ride. a gt2871R could be in my future if the valve train/flow mods are developed to support it, same with upgraded stocker.


also, i'm not sure there is a 2871 with the correct turbine housing inlet flange available. ATP might, haven't checked lately.

This statement couldnt be more false. You can increase mid range depending upon the turbo, up to and including TUNING in the midrange as well. Another thing, you have no gearing options at your disposal for this car anyhow, so where exactly are you going to pick that up with a big turbo?

As far as reving higher per tuning, you arent going to rev higher, until you have a valve train and lower end to support it.

last time i checked, if u rev higher, your gearing goes up.

lets see we have the stock turbo, shift at 5800 or go home, midrange would be about 2600-3600 right?

Now we have a gt35, shift at 6600 midrange would be about 3300-4600. Like i said, midrange is gearing related.

so if all you want is a TBE, cai, TMIC and tune, would the 2871R be the best bet to keep the internals safe... say around the 15 low 18high psi range? or inneficient for that setup... the internals i do not want to touch, and my turbo is smoking!

You are not changing midrange power by reving higher. The car by default can rev to 6500 based off our redline index. We know why a stock MS3 will not rev past 5500 and theres fixes out there to go over this hurdle. A turbo is set to hit a specific RPM range. If you rev to 6500 with the stock turbo, the midrange does not change. If you were to rebuild your valvetrain with higher quality springs, lifters, and vales, its going to hit midrange at the same rpm regardless. If you add CAMS to the mix, you will THAN change your midrange index.

The 35R is a late hit turbo anyhow, so with you reving higher, you are finally getting more out of that turbo than a MS3 without the throttle control. You are not going to move the midrange power whatsoever. Thats why man created cams.

dont stop at the 285 ;)
the 315 is almost the same diameter as stock, 285 is a hair closer though.... mount tire, bring sawzall. thats not what ya want to do? well then dont play in the big boy classes (dsp/sm) or get used to loosing bad (nationally)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...3/8f7664da.jpg

i was thinking seriously about going to dsp, but to do it right, you better have a budget the size of Crazyitalian
especially since custom lower control arms may be legal in 09

If you want to remain sane and not rebuild. a 2871 is as high as you could possibly go.

that why ron is running a 35 for 6 months now.
2nr running a 35 for a week or 2
and ill bet my ass ill be running the 35 just fine untill i build it

your idea of midrange is based on the max rev of the engine.
my idea of midrange is based on peak useable power.

Well i guess you are right... ill be sure to call Dana and Richmond Gear and let them know, gear sets are no longer valid according to your logic.

Not if you drive it like myself or Randy would.. Kaboom

There is no way that you can choose mods that will guarantee that you 'remain safe'. I must have said this time and time again on MSF, but the safety of the car is going to depend on the TUNE and the DRIVER MOD more than anything else. You can throw a GT35 on there, safely tune it, baby it and you will probably be fine. You can throw a 28 on there, boost the crap out of it, beat on it daily and have problems.

Well, as the saying goes... you gotta pay to play. EVERYTHING is a risk, so know that before you mod it, otherwise, no sympathy or whining allowed when you blow up.

i still think a 28 tuned to 20 psi and my driving habits, which are severe btw, will survive. On a 35R, i guarantee i would blow.

so does this mean dog man wants to help me install in a few weeks???

:Banane35:


:stupido2:

Not with pot in your property line, no.

everyone knows i just smoke all of bab`s weed.. haha, so looks like your helpin me? haha...

seriously though if you were to come over and drink all the beer in the fridge and guide me a bit. i would be stoked and you could have some beer. haha

Im sure that can be arranged.

I'm surviving so far at 20psi since Julyish. Been wondering about 22~24psi. But I might wait till I get some rods first. Winter is coming, so I won't be getting on it much. Cold asphalt and summer tires don't mix. I think the 2871r is great for those who want to replace the stock turbo, but are not looking to make big big drag car power.

I also agree with Haltech on the cam issue. I'm sure the GT30 and GT35 series are great, and makes tons of power. But they can't be used to it's full potential until some cams come out to support a different power band to make use of it's spool time, rpm, power, etc, etc.

ah! the never ending battle between the 2871 and the 3071........deja vu from my SRT days. Technology has come a long way and that 2871 can produce 350-380whp on the srt easily, and im guessing thats not too far from us either. I've seen plenty of well tuned srt's running both turbos and from a low punch, that 2871 easily holds off the bigger turbo up until the 130-140ish mph range when the 3071 starts breathing. our problem ofcourse with that would be spool but it would make for one mean ass ms3 running that turbo if we had fuel under control.

I'm sold on the 3076. I want the later spool and the possibility of going over 400whp at some point. Plus that turbo will hit and power numbers I want at a moderate amount of boost.

My opinion: Because too many people are caught up in "bigger is better" logic.

Probably 95% of the people on this forum have no need of anything bigger than the 28, but most with aftermarket turbos have 30's or 35's.

The smaller turbo will be more streetable (spool earlier), at the expense of max power potential naturally. There is always a tradeoff.

But seriously, how many people are really planing for the supporting mods likely required beyond the ~380whp the 28 can supply? My guess isn't too many.

I understand that people like Laloosh and Whoosh that wish to push the envelope and don't care much about low/mid RPM characteristics might see the 28 as a silly saladshooter, but the reality is that it would be great for most people.

It is all about individual goals. I personally would like to end up in the ~320-350whp range reliably without breaking the bank. After everyone does the R&D over the next year or two, I expect to be there.

:veryhappy:

You also have to be able to recognize problems before they cause catastrophes...

lol dreaming a little too big there.:nutkick:

Anyway I just helped my buddy install a 28 on his speed3. This thing is no comparison to the stock turbo the 28 is much better then the stock turbo. I agree with many others in this post that without building the motor this turbo is way more then the stock motor can handle. If you cant build the motor or dont want to then why not get this turbo? spools fast gets you the power when you want it.
:wiggle:

Mark

I appreciate the input here. Looks like the Gt2871R would be the ideal turbo for myself.

my gt2871r is now on...
DD is nice.. you can stay outta boost if you like or let the powah come out.
go for it.

Mine is on too...gonna start driving it tomorrow after 5 weeks of downtime. I'm excited. xD

Hope you guys give us some more input soon.

^^^+1

Can't wait to see some dyno numbers as well as longevity reports.

cant wait to put it back on ...fucken ceramic coat DP take forever to finish LOL

Yeah my ceramic coated mani took 3 weeks to get back to me lol

now we got a bunch of gt28 MS6's.

horaaay!

honestly what would happen if i just bolted it on and used the cobb beta map with it?? would it run ok? would it boost the same, higher, lower????

well.... your going to want to tune it if your going to run WOT... shit will likely knock and scream bad numbers at you.

also, i might consider a MBC, unless you want to change all your boost settings on ATR to compensate for the WG spring pressure... (which varies)

t3 turbooo all the way

atenza freak or MPS?
me confused?
t3= easier said than done.

will a gt2871 bolt on p&p to the stock exhaust manifold? and what about the downpipe? could a stock like dp, like cp-e or whatever, be reused for it?

if so, the oil support, inlet and hot pipe were the only things to care about for the installation or what?

if ur gonna buy a mazdaspeed specific kit from atp then it's pretty much pnp.

Yes BUT. The issue with the ATP turbos flanged for our cars is that they boost creep like mother fuckers. You either need to do some porting to run the IWG or better yet use an EWG. Besides that it's a straight swap.

to do some porting where?

but going with an ewg meaned to use an aftermarket exhaust manifold and i couldnt ruse my cp-e dp. am i right?

Wrong. First off the manifold has nothing to do with DP except that both connect to the turbo. Secondly, you certainly can run a CPE DP, aftermarket mani with EWG, and a gt871r (that's exactly what I'm running...CPE DP + DNP mani w/ EWG + GT2871r).

I think it was P3 that at some point opted to fight the boost creep issue by porting out the IWG with some sort of success. IMO the right way to do it is to just go the EWG route.

thank u man!

but i am always a lil confused about the shortcuts u all use. i have to excuse.

whats a "dnp" manifold? is that the brand???