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MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Turbo Induction MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Turbo Induction - Have a turbo, intercooler, downpipe question? Anything turbo related belongs here!


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 Old 11-07-2018, 08:22 AM   #1
 
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Default High boost flutter/surge

Hey everyone, this is my first post because I can usually find all the info I need by looking through previous threads and all. So last night I went for a 3rd gear pull and right at about 5000 rpm at 17 psi I started hearing surging or flutter. Not sure which one. I looked through as many forums as I could find but it seemed like they were all just people having a flutter at low boost or when they let off the throttle. I couldn't find anyone who had fluttering/surging at high boost at high rpm. Could it be my BPV/BOV going out or something worse? (I have a TurboXS hybrid) If there is a thread out there that talks about high boost surge that I missed please let me know but I looked for a few hours and couldn't find any. Thanks! (Also in those threads people said high boost flutter/surge is bad and should be addressed ASAP but didnt say what could be causing it or how it may be fixed)
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 Old 11-07-2018, 08:34 AM   #2
 
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Can you post a data log replicating the condition?
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 Old 11-07-2018, 09:09 AM   #3
 
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Okay, i took these last night when it was happening. Thanks
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File Type: csv datalog2.csv (40.7 KB, 6 views)
File Type: csv datalog3.csv (17.2 KB, 4 views)
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 Old 11-07-2018, 10:02 AM   #4
 
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I don't see anything out of the ordinary...
What is your setup? Did you ask Stratified about it?
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 Old 11-07-2018, 10:15 AM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by tegxsi View Post
I don't see anything out of the ordinary...
What is your setup? Did you ask Stratified about it?
I haven't yet but they will probably take a week or so to reply and if something is wrong I want to fix it as soon as i can. The weather also recently got colder, could that have anything to do with it?
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 Old 11-07-2018, 12:07 PM   #6
 
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I also have a hybrid BPV and one time I got flutter when i forgot to reconnect the recirculation hose to the top of the BOV. Could be something as simple as that, did you check your connections?
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 Old 11-07-2018, 01:23 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by Bertospeed3 View Post
I also have a hybrid BPV and one time I got flutter when i forgot to reconnect the recirculation hose to the top of the BOV. Could be something as simple as that, did you check your connections?
I just checked it and it seems fine
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 Old 11-07-2018, 06:00 PM   #8
 
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When is the last time your BPV was serviced? I'm wondering if the valve is opening and bleeding off boost. Maybe weak or broken spring? Damaged seal?
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 Old 11-07-2018, 06:45 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
When is the last time your BPV was serviced? I'm wondering if the valve is opening and bleeding off boost. Maybe weak or broken spring? Damaged seal?
I'll check it tomorrow, I'll also put on the stock one and see if it makes a difference
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 Old 11-07-2018, 08:05 PM   #10
 
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Definitely check that, 90% sure its a bpv related problem
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 Old 11-08-2018, 08:53 AM   #11
 
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can your noise be the one of a leak instead ? if it doesn't work by fixing the bpv, i would do a piping pressure test...

Surging happen at spool if the intake restriction is too high or if discharge to the engine offer too much restriction or both added together. It can also happen if the BPV don't open when you let off gaz.
In any case, the wheel shaft is moving side to side trying to let the pressure escape and this make a lot of load on the thrust bearing and everything untill the wheel touch the case at high speed and something break.

I'm not sure if fluter can be part of the surge or if it is just when the BOV is pulsating open/close between too much pressure and not enough against the spring....The last case would be almost just a sound.

All that to say none of them should happen at wot at 5000rpm so i think it is something else like a leak.
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 Old 11-08-2018, 09:47 AM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
can your noise be the one of a leak instead ? if it doesn't work by fixing the bpv, i would do a piping pressure test...

Surging happen at spool if the intake restriction is too high or if discharge to the engine offer too much restriction or both added together. It can also happen if the BPV don't open when you let off gaz.
In any case, the wheel shaft is moving side to side trying to let the pressure escape and this make a lot of load on the thrust bearing and everything untill the wheel touch the case at high speed and something break.

I'm not sure if fluter can be part of the surge or if it is just when the BOV is pulsating open/close between too much pressure and not enough against the spring....The last case would be almost just a sound.

All that to say none of them should happen at wot at 5000rpm so i think it is something else like a leak.
Okay, thanks everyone. Also something I hadn't mentioned, my tune has a crackle tune on it and around the same time it stopped crackling by a noticeable amount, about 80% . Could it be that something in my exhaust malfunctioned like the wastegate or maybe I destroyed one of my cats and doesnt flow as well and the back pressure is making the hot side of the turbo flutter?
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 Old 11-08-2018, 10:06 AM   #13
 
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Too much pops and bangs will kill cats. You still haven't listed any of your mods...all we know is that you have a TurboXS hybrid valve.
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 Old 11-08-2018, 10:58 AM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by tegxsi View Post
Too much pops and bangs will kill cats. You still haven't listed any of your mods...all we know is that you have a TurboXS hybrid valve.
Sorry. I'm new to this forum, I'll make it when I can but for now it's just short ram intake with turbo inlet hose, muffler delete, and bov and tune on 93

If my cats did get killed would it cause this?

UPDATE: Switched to stock BPV, no change

Last edited by Dennisaliy; 11-08-2018 at 04:58 PM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 11-08-2018, 07:34 PM   #15
 
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Got this video, not as loud on camera but still audible
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 Old 11-09-2018, 06:42 AM   #16
 
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really looks like a leak
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 Old 11-16-2018, 03:47 PM   #17
 
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Just did Boost leak test and put on stock inlet pipe on. No difference.

My other question, if my cats blew out could it cause something like this?

Thanks All
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 Old 11-17-2018, 01:39 PM   #18
 
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UPDATE: Got 2 CEL codes, p0421 and c1938, fuel trims now also jump up to 16.4%
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Originally Posted by Dennisaliy View Post
UPDATE: Got 2 CEL codes, p0421 and c1938, fuel trims now also jump up to 16.4%
C1938 is a steering wheel position or angle position code. Not related to your problem

P0421 is the low cat temp code we see when running catless without a raised bung on a catless downpipe. It means your primary cat has probably failed.
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 Old Yesterday, 07:38 PM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
C1938 is a steering wheel position or angle position code. Not related to your problem

P0421 is the low cat temp code we see when running catless without a raised bung on a catless downpipe. It means your primary cat has probably failed.
Okay thanks, so this is a dumb question but that's the second cat right?
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Originally Posted by Dennisaliy View Post
Okay thanks, so this is a dumb question but that's the second cat right?
No, that's the first cat built into your OEM downpipe. You can delete the second cat by replacing it with a race pipe and not throw any code.

Something is wrong with the first cat or sensor. You could just have a dirty or bad sensor.
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
No, that's the first cat built into your OEM downpipe. You can delete the second cat by replacing it with a race pipe and not throw any code.

Something is wrong with the first cat or sensor. You could just have a dirty or bad sensor.
Okay, I'll check the sensor first, thanks!
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 Old Today, 09:08 AM   #23
 
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Could be the sensor for the code but it won't help for the noise you heard while a leaking cat would be heard at all time...

How did you process for the boost leak test ? Did you replace the intake by a tube connected to an air pressure source and check for leaks under 15-20psi ?
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 Old Today, 09:13 AM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
Could be the sensor for the code but it won't help for the noise you heard while a leaking cat would be heard at all time...

How did you process for the boost leak test ? Did you replace the intake by a tube connected to an air pressure source and check for leaks under 15-20psi ?
Yes, didn't hear any leaks. The pressure did drop after a couple minutes but I hear that's normal
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