MS6 CXRacing 2.25 FMIC DIY Setup

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

ORIGINAL POST: CONCEPT
(For the most up to date design notes, parts list, etc. please see very end of this OP)

So with all the recent CXracing and ebay FMIC ms6 diy kits showing up all over the place i figured I would share my 2.25 piping setup I just purchased. After doing a good bit of research i decided on going with 2.25in piping because i plan on sticking with the ko4 and have limited hp goals. My basic goal was to just increase the efficiency of cooling system and not really prep the car for a BT or high hp goals. Just keep the turbo lag the same as stock, decrease heat soak, and of course increase performance without adding a lot of weight.

I have read up on many peoples kits and with what i plan on doing i should not need to relocate the washer tank and should have minimal cutting and trimming of the front bumper due to my pipe size. Below are the few items I needed to purchase off ebay. I should have everythnig in soon and will of course document the DIY process and post up my exact cuts and layout. I hope others enjoy and look forward to seeing how the 2.25in piping performs. In the future i do plan on upgrading the intercooler its self but figured this should work just fine with what im currently running and should suffice for the majority of my future planned mods.

So here are the pcs to the kit, below is a part out list....





BOV + 28x7x2.5 Intercooler + 2.25" Turbo Piping Kit | eBay

90 degree 2" to 2.25" 51mm/57mm universal silicone hose reducer | eBay

2.25" - 2.75" 57mm to 70mm Silicone Reducer Hose Black | eBay


Parts List: ( SEE MOST RECENT UPDATED LIST AT THE BTM OF THIS POST)

Bar & Plate Intercooler 28x7x2.5 inch - Inlet and outlet sizes: 2.5 inch
2.25" Straight Aluminum Pipe x2
2.25" 45 Degree Aluminum Pipe x2
2.25" 75 Degree Aluminum Pipe x2
2.25" J Aluminum Pipe x2
2.25" Straight Silicon Hose x4
2.5"~2.25" Silicon Reducer Hose x2
2.25" 90 Degree Hose x2
2.25" Stainless Steel T-Clamp x14
2.5" Stainless Steel T-Clamp x2
Blow Off Valve x1
2.25" Aluminum BOV Flange Pipe x1
Vacuum Hose And Accessories
Silicone 90 Degree Elbow Reducer Hose 2" To 2.25" Black
2.25" - 2.75" 57mm to 70mm Silicone Reducer Hose Black


Some of the piping will not be used but better to have extra then not, just in case. Also I may or may not use the supplied BOV, depends on the quality but hell it comes with the kit so worth a look see.

So total part costs $ 234.00 and all of the parts have free shipping. Now thats one inexpensive intercooler setup!!!!!


*Also to make sure and not heat soak any engine bay pipes I will be keping and modifying my stock TMIC inlet ducting to help cool the top pipe and motor, and will also heat wrap all of the pipes and more then likely buy a heat blanket for the turbo and the long pipe that will stretch across the motor. Ill update these costs to the build soon.

Added-> DEI 010129 2"x15' Titanium Header Exhaust Heat Wrap $ 18.00

Still searching for the least expensive turbo blanket....




COLLECTED DATA FOR DESIGN:


Stock TMIC


Core Size: 11 x 13 x 2 = 286

Air Inlet Size: 2 x (8 x 1.5 ducts) = 24
(Ducting mounted under hood)



DIY FMIC


Core Size: 22 x 7 x 2.5 = 385
(25.714 % Increase in core size over stock)

Air Inlet Size: 1 x (28 x 10) = 280
(Front Air dam 10X the contact area for air)


So as you can see even a budget DIY EBAY FMIC seems to be a WIN over the stock TMIC fo many reasons. The core size can be increased, along with the area in which air can travel to hit the IC, also heat soak (obviously). Now the qualtity of the parts im using is up in the air but i can always upgrade in the future to increase the efficiency of the setup. Also im hoping that Ill be able to keep my pipes cool enough to actually be utilizing that travel as additional cooling to the charged air by using heat wrap, tube blankets, turbo blanket, and i already have a vented hood that really keeps down ambient under the hood temps, especially in stop and go, or in the mountains. I also plan on directing and focusing the air still coming from the stock ducting system to cool the top pipe coming across the engine. Comments and concerns are welcome. I love working on cars and fabing things so Im sure i can tackle this, Im just excited to document it and see how it turns out!

Decided to start compiling some data..... please let me know if you have figures that suggest other wise. All of this is based off of information i have searched on the internet.....


Stock k04 @ 15.6 psi @ 5560 rpm cfm flow rate of 491 cfm
Stock k04 @ 19 Psi @ 5560 rpm cfm flow rate of 564 cfm
BNR stage 3 25% more efficient then stock which puts it at about 614 cfm


CXracing intercooler max cfm flow rate of 700 cfm


PIPING FLOW RATES-

2" piping
1.57 x 2 = 3.14 sq in
300 cfm = 156 mph = 0.20 mach
400 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
500 cfm = 261 mph = 0.34 mach
585 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.25" piping
3.9740625 sq in = 1.98703125 x 2
300 cfm = 123 mph = 0.16 mach
400 cfm = 164 mph = 0.21 mach
500 cfm = 205 mph = 0.26 mach
600 cfm = 247 mph = 0.32 mach
700 cfm = 288 mph = 0.37 mach
740 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.5" piping
4.90625 sq in = 2.453125 x 2
300 cfm = 100 mph = 0.13 mach
400 cfm = 133 mph = 0.17 mach
500 cfm = 166 mph = 0.21 mach
600 cfm = 200 mph = 0.26 mach
700 cfm = 233 mph = 0.30 mach
800 cfm = 266 mph = 0.34 mach
900 cfm = 300 mph = 0.39 mach
913 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach

*.4 Mach is the point at which air becomes turbulent and losses in efficiency start to occur exponentially. The key is to stay under that speed. You want to use the smallest piping possible that still flows enough to meet your needs. Larger than necessary piping increases lag time with no measurable gain


So if you look at my current setup of stock boost and turbo I should technically be running 2in piping for max inefficiency but the 2.25in piping is still in the GOOD range. my plans are to run a BNR stage 3 upgrade in the future which puts me right in line with my goals and the cfm rating my system is setup for.

In my opinion it looks as if going to 2.5 piping would really require a BT setup with some high cfms other wise 2.25 is MONEY!


Also just found this....
http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-...tor/index.html

ill put in some numbers and see if i can make a graph that shows the bends and diameters with their pressure drops. Then i can calculate the entire systems pressure drop through solidworks calculating my inner area.

I cannot stress how much research I have sorted through showing the resistance in the system in the form of bends is were the largest amount of pressure drop and flow restriction is. Here is a little blurb....

"So let’s cut to the chase - what are some of the useful figures? Let’s take a 3-inch tube: that’s pretty common these days on both high performance exhausts and intakes. A tight 90-degree bend (where ‘tight’ means a radius about equal to the diameter, ie in this case 3 inches) poses the same restriction as 7.5 feet (2.3 metres) of straight pipe!

A long radius 90-degree bend (a bend radius of 4.5 inches, or 11.4cm) has a flow restriction equal to about 5 feet (about 1.5 metres) of straight pipe.

A 45-degree bend? Well, one with a radius of bend the same as its 3-inch diameter has an equivalent flow restriction of 4 feet, or about 1.2 metres. A 180-degree bend with a 1:1 radius/diameter? It’s got the same flow restriction as 12 feet of straight pipe - that’s an incredible 3.7 metres!

Get the picture? Those bends - even when they are relatively open - drop flow to a major degree. If the mass of air contained within the pipework isn’t critical (eg as it is for intercooler plumbing, where throttle response loss needs to be minimised) it makes a helluva lot of sense to go much longer rather than put in tight bends."

So longer piping with less bends is infact better then shorter piping with drastic bends. I think this is another good reason to go the short rouse on one side and long on the other. To help keep a good balance. also may help some of you guys claiming to not have as quick of spool as stock when going to FMIC. Count your bends up and see

DESIGN- PIPE ROUTE AND ASSEMBLY


Turbo
2 to 2.25 Reducer 45 deg. Elbow Coupler
2.25 Pipe 30 deg. Bend + straight
2.25 Coupler
2.25 Straight Pipe
2.25 Coupler
2.25 Pipe 75 deg. Bend
2.25 Coupler
2.25 Pipe 45 deg. Bend + straight
2.25 Coupler
2.25 Pipe 75 Deg. Bend
2.25 to 2.5 Reducer Coupler
Intercooler
2.25 to 2.5 Reducer Coupler
2.25 Pipe 75 Deg. Bend
2.25- 45 Deg. Coupler
2.25 Pipe 30 Deg. Bend + Straight
2.25- 45 Deg. Coupler
2.25 BOV Flange Pipe
2.25 to 2.75 Reducer Coupler

DESIGN- SOLID WORKS RENDERINGS (in chronological order)








Here is a video of the setup.....

MS6 :: 2012-06-29_16-49-24_912.mp4 video by esbjiujitsu - Photobucket




PICTURES OF THE SETUP (V 1.0)

Some pictures of the setup up to this point. Lot of the bends and setup has changed to allow for the best possible flow. I will update my parts list soon!





I went with the washer routing on the passenger side to keep bend radi at a minimum. I didnt notice a big difference in piping length going this route over the drop in front of the radiator option and i did not care about my washer fluid. Also notice I use 75 degree bends instead of 90s to reduce the resistance.



Went with the tight bend around the radiator on this side because I did notice a difference in piping length going this route and I didnt want to squeeze to many pipes through the same space due to the fact i run a CAI.



Top view of engine. Decided with a straight route across the engine to eliminate unneeded bends. Also used another 75 degree bend here vs the common 90 degree.



Recessed mounting bolts for the intercooler. No need for a bracket the height was perfect with the btm of the top half of the crash bar.



FINALIZED aka CURRENT SETUP (V 2.0)

Parts List:

Bar & Plate Intercooler 28x7x2.5 inch - Inlet and outlet sizes: 2.5 inch
2.25" Straight Aluminum Pipe x2
2.25" 45 Degree Aluminum Pipe x1
2.25" 75 Degree Aluminum Pipe x3
2.25" Straight Silicon Hose x4
2.5"~2.25" Silicon Reducer Hose x2
2.25" 45 Degree Hose x 1
2.25" 90 Degree Hose x1
2.25" Stainless Steel T-Clamp x14
2.5" Stainless Steel T-Clamp x2
Silicone 45 Degree Elbow Reducer Hose 2" To 2.25" Black
2.25" - 2.75" Silicone Reducer Hose Black
Blow Off Valve x1
2.25" Aluminum BOV Flange Pipe x1
Vacuum Hose And Accessories


Routing:

Turbo—
2 to 2.25 Reducer 45 deg. Elbow Coupler
2.25 Pipe 30 deg. Bend + straight
2.25 Coupler
2.25 Straight Pipe
2.25 Coupler
2.25 Pipe 75 deg. Bend
2.25 Coupler
2.25 Pipe 30 deg. Bend + straight
2.25 Coupler
2.25 Pipe 75 Deg. Bend
2.25 to 2.5 Reducer Coupler
Intercooler
2.25 to 2.5 Reducer Coupler
2.25 Pipe 75 Deg. Bend
2.25- 90 Deg. Coupler
2.25 Pipe Straight
2.25- 45 Deg. Coupler
2.25 BOV Flange Pipe
2.25 to 2.75 Reducer Coupler

Pictures:
















CONCLUSION (V 2.0)

2 words sum up this build for me.....rewarding and educational. Not only did I end up with a FMIC kit for under $250, but I will be doing plenty of tests to prove my $250 FMIC setup will out perform even the highest name brand FMIC/TMIC kids for the ms6. My journey here is not over yet I already have plans to sell this kit and actually make a v3.0 which will end up being easily the shortest IC pipe, and lowest resistance FMIC design EVER for the ms6 or ms3! So stay tuned. Ill probably generate a whole new thread for that setup as it will require lots of cutting!

Despite having tons of time under the hood of lots of cars this was my first front mount build. In all honestly its not that hard, it just all depends on these 3 questions....

Will you be using the Stock turbo or BT?
If your running stock turbo I suggest 2.25 in piping, and if your going BT then I would possibly go to 2.5. Personally for BT i feel a mix of 2.25 hot side and 2.5 cold side would yeild the best results.


Are you looking for High gains or just a better then stock cooling solution?
You want the most efficient setup possible,then you want limited bends with as low a radii as possible and minimal tube length. That will mean cutting and test fitting a lot. Power doesn't come easy and if you want the best you have to be willing to spend some time revising. Just looking for something that will cool better then the TMIC and not heat soak then just route the piping so that its easy to check, limited cutting required for stock parts, and keep all your stock goodies. The FMIC will perform over a TMIC even without going through the trouble of reducing bends and lengths.


To cut or not to cut the crash bar?
This falls into the question above..... do you want the best setup possible and the most air. Cut the crash bar...even 1/2 of it will improve the air flow to the FMIC. Cut it all the way if you want a giant IC, the bigger you go the more cooling you will see. Dont want to cut the stock crash bar no problem.... go shorter but thicker on the IC, just bare in bind this limits flow.


I will continue to update this as i can and as I improve this particular setup prior to the even more badass setup COMING SOON!

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

I updated a few things in my op..... also for future reference i decided to design my entire kit in solid works. Here are my pc's to work with.... this will make it easier to keep track of changes and pipe use. Also i can calculate length of pipes and total volume. Also makes it very easy to duplicate and have produced. Stay tuned for more progress. Pipes and ic will be coming in tomorrow !

[Mistersix]

What a write up, very thorough. I've just been down this road and would like to add some input.

Actually i'm still on this road. I'm on my 4th revision of pipe routing, shape and size. There are a number of unknown problems you seem to be overlooking. The same problems i only uncovered once i was knee deep in the fab process. Your piping is a tad smaller so you may have some more wiggle room.

I doubt you'll be able to do anything with the hood ducting other than remove it. There's just no room for it with the pipe running across the top of the engine. Fwiw, the air will still travel up threw there, more than likely over the back of the engine. This, however, is a science i'm not qualified to make assumptions on.

You did not say exactly what bpv pipe you got. I can only assume its from ebay as you have a flange to attach to it to make it work. If so, it will not allow you to run the bpv full recirc unless you can turn it and fyi, finding affordable 28mm ID silicone hose is a bitch.

In you list is there is no long silicone tubing. This was a life saver for me. I bought 3ft piece and cut it to size as needed. Without it i would have several connections over a very short length.

You never mentioned how you plan to mount the intercooler.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

thank you for the feedback. and i appreciate the compliment. I will be doing a lot of the layout in solid works as im test fitting the car. This will make it easier to see the big picture when i move pcs around for best fit.

Based on my measurements it looked as if I cut circle slots in the upper air damn to allow the pipe to fit across the engine. Of course you may be 100% correct and when i get there i may not have enough room. If thats the case ill go back to the design room because i really want to bring air specifically to that top pipe.

I did just get the ebay pipe that came with the kit so obviously im in the dark about that piece. Honestly i got the kit with the bov flange and bov just because it seems so cheep...why not... so ill test that piece and if it doesnt work ill have a friend weld up something for me using what i have in my garage.

As far as the extra silicone goes.....im in this for a solid piping kit with as little as silicone as possible. Once my design is complete Ill have it welded up to my likely to keep it looking sexy and keep future leaks under control. PLus silicone really takes up space and with 2.25 piping the big benefit i have is more spacing. I dont want to loose that.

Of course there will be road blocks im sure, and ill have to revise plans as i go but im up to the challenge. I am just excited for the project. And who knows maybe it will offer others another cost effective solution to FMIC.

I really appreciate your constructive thoughts on my setup. Please anything else you can think of im open to. I have a lot of interesting ways of cooling piping and running piping and look forward to testing the different solutions and narrowing down the shortest route piping with min. drastic bends.

Also on mounting. I will just bend some brackets or buy some from home depot and mount to the top of the crash bar since i will be cutting a notch out of the btm portion. i want to leave the crash bar so a small notch is as much as i feel comfortable cutting


Ill have more progress on my solidworks drawing by the end of today so long as work is slow lol and should have many gifts from ups today!!! yey!

[Mistersix]

Your plan is solid and should work out fine. The bpv pipe and flange you have is the same as mine. The problem with it is the bpv is 90* to the recirc pipe and the stock recirc pipe does not reach. Even if it did it would kink. I have mine vta right now, and though it sounds cool it sucks to drive.

That 90* reducer coupler you have for the turbo may be sketchy. I'm not sure it will clear the valve cover. I went with a 45* reducer, then a 45* pipe. Obviously you dont want the pipe sitting on the valve cover.

Damn, i don't mean to keep pooping in your fruit loops but every time i look at the first post....

I think you gonna have to cut a lot more than you realize from the crash bar. My core is .8" taller and i had to cut the whole thing for it to fit.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

The funny thing is my car was set to vta with a turbo xs rfl bov when i bought it so I have always driven vta. Personally I like the way my car drives but i have considered going 50/50 or full recirculated to see what im missing. I see what you mean about the angle. i also wonder if my turbo xs will fit on that flange....if not i have the cxracing bov that comes with the kit just in case and have actually read its not terrible.....but i love my turbo xs and was thinking about having it welded to be a recirculated fitting instead of a horn housing. We will see those questions i hope to answer this weekend so i can start to determine if i have to buy longer hose to go recirculated or what.

Correct i want the pipe to be elevated. Even though I will be wrapping that pipe as well. If i have to extend that section, or even just have a hard pipe welded to work and get another coupling thats okay. I can just sell the one I have on ebay. But we will see, im sure i can figure out something to extend the reach there. I am in no rush just wanted to have something to start from. The kit and setup so far has been so cheap I still have a little left in the old quarter jar lol

If need be i can make a crash bar myself to replace the stocker or allow some of the crash bar to be in-tacked and attempt to angle the intercooler. But from what i have seen in other setups it didnt seem i would need to cut that much but i certainly cant argue with someone thats done it now can I . We shall see very soon.

And trust me you are being extremely informative and respectful i appreciate any information and help. I will also have a lot more information to post once i meet with my friends who have all the intercooler knowledge. Once they see my proposed setup and options im sure they will have a good insight as well. I look forward to test fitting and mounting the IC to start getting the piping nailed down in solid works. It will be very exciting to see what data i can gain. I think the biggest will be ease of figuring total volume. But im sure there is much more. Hope to post pics of the kit tonight so long as ups doesn't screw me

Thanks again i just appreciate the feedback and discussion!

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Its a friday im allowed to work on government projects right.... lol Its coming along nicely. Still have some more hoses to draw up, also the flange on the bov pipe and the bov itself. also may see if i can find a t4 drawn up somewhere online for effect Fun times!!!

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Added some T Bolts and rendered for a better look Found a turbo and bov to throw in there for effect working on them now. Still a reducer elbow to draw once I get a free moment, but I would say after those few things ill be done with the 3D model until I can measure the actual car and start test fitting. Fun times!

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Last update of the day! No ups yet but still holding out it comes before the end of the day so this weekend i can get cracking!

Here is the most recent solidworks rendering of the kit. Again this is rough, but from here it gets easy. Enjoy. Updated OP with this pic as well because it best represents the kit at this time.

[Mistersix]

I had a pipe pop off today. So i gotta take the bumper back off and figure out how to get it to stay. I'll get some pics while its open. The setup i'm using would look nothing like what you've rendered.

Are you gonna run the piping in between the frame and radiator shroud? Or out and around?

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

please take as many pics as possible, right now my rendering is a rough draft. Once i have the IC and piping in hand Ill make all my hard measurements and dimension and identify all the bend radii. Hope to see everything tomorrow if i get lucky with a saturday delivery. Then ill rip the bumper off and start getting down to the nitty gritty. Again thanks for the help!

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Fedex came through!!!! hopefully i can start getting my moutning location figured out this next week and iron out the piping from there. Im very impressed with the quality of the pipes, bov and the IC. For as much as I paid Im floored to have all of this to work with!

[Mistersix]

I put a butt load of pics in this thread.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ml#post1487955

I know your subbed to it but just a heads up.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Just a quick update.... I cut a simple template of my intercooler out of paper corrugated so i can safely mount it and move it around and not mess up my shinny new IC. Ill trace out where I need to mount it and prep that area to cut tomorrow or sunday. ONce i cut the crash bar I can locate my mounting locations and make my brackets . Slow and steady wins the race! At least in my case.

[Mistersix]

Careful of the bumper clips just above the side markers. I'm currently replacing one.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

bumpers off....taking measurements, trimming pcs, cutting crash bar in half and lining up piping route. May end up going around the engine vs over on top of it..... we will see


Also about to start a thread.....found some low beam hella projector housings i had for a past project and im replacing the fog lights with them. Looks amazing and Im sure visibility at night is going to be crazy improved!!!! The looks alone are stunning. Pics to come soon!

[Mistersix]

I would advise one to keep the piping as short as possible. It may "look" better to do it a certain way but the shortest route possible is gonna be best for performance.

My route is the shortest one could possible take and i still feel a bit of a delay, a "softening" of the oncoming boost hit. Its a completely different feel from tmic super short piping. And i realize this the more i drive my car.

It still hits hard and pulls on you hard but the initial hit is not as it was with the tmic. Its almost a less comical....less juvenile...... more mature feeling acceleration, to over describe it. Its more fitting of the speed 6 being a midsize sedan. If i had a scrappy little hatch(ms3) i would stick with the tmic just to retain the "leaping" effect it has when ripping threw the gears.

Would adding another foot or so add to this effect enough that one could tell a difference between two setups? Maybe, maybe not.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Our setups are almost identical. My cold side is exactly the same as yours give or take bend radi.

Pre intercooler I went the windshield washer route, because it was very easy, and also only added a total of 6in in total pipe length over the other route. I just didnt like how pinched it was between the engine and the frame where there the pipe comes down. Too each their own. Your piping looks great i just decided to go this way for now.

Also Im curious to see with me going 2.25 piping unlike everyone elses 2.5 if my lag will not be nearly as significant. Because if you think about it volume wise my system is avlot less to fill then a 2.5 in dia system ie quicker boost and faster air movement.



Here are some pics of my progress in the last 3 hrs.

[Mistersix]

i went with the 2.5 cause it was easier to find everything and cheaper as i thought. less reducers allowed me more room in the budget for a better core.

You should have had plenty of room with the 2.25" pipe going by the powersteering tank.

Thats a lot of pipe though man.
(thats what she said)

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

honestly my mounts are not awesome and i fear that area becoming tight and hurting my pipe.... im surprised no one else feels the same but maybe im paranoid? its really not that much extra pipe length overall and the bends are nice and open. im hoping that awards me something Back to the dungeon.... its hot outside in NC fewwwwww

[forcedinduktion]

nice! subbed for finished project

[Mistersix]

Today would def be a tough one for wrenching. It wasn't nearly this hot when i did mine and it was still tough.

Anyways, if i could go back to talking about spool. Here's a log i did today. Pretty hot out but Treadstone FTW. Kept bat's at and lower than IAT's. Look at lines 20-25 thats the spool. About 500rpms to get full boost. Never took that long with the tmic. While this map is not quite dialed in as far as AFR's and boost go its just an example of the negative effects of running all this piping and such on the little K04. Look at the WGDC's. they're working hard and still not hitting my targeted boost. This could however, have everything to do with temperature and not hardware.

Going with the small pipe and core may have been your best bet.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

DONE!!! and all i can say is wow~!! One the cxracing bov is holding way better then my old turbo xs. And no noticeable lag and a bunch of noticeable hp!!! Even my wife could feel it! Also the torque curve seems smoother and the power comes on nice and even but no lack of boost, holds 15.6 psi perfect, no spikes yet, and no extra lag, but we will have some more data tomorrow. Im tired as hell time for some sleep. Will upload pics tomorrow morning. Have a great night!!!!

[Mistersix]

In for pics.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Still need to tweak the piping here and there to help level things out a bit, also still need to open up front grille, but I need to save something for me to do next weekend All in all im crazy impressed. Only 250 invested and sure a good bit of diy but if you like that sort of thing like i do this project is a money saving WIN! And the power.....ohhhh the power. And the setup will only improve as i improve the air flow up front and start to wrap and cool piping in various ways. Also i love this BOV, will be trying re circulation tomorrow or tonight, but so far so good!

Cant thank everyones posts before mine that helped me determine my routing and the pit falls! i t made my work much easier! Also ill be updating my solid works models and posting those soon

[Mistersix]

Gotta get that bobo fixed. But it looks good otherwise. Looks like you need to cut some holes outta the grille. So what are ya gonna do about the the washer fluid reservoir?

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

maybe get a smaller one and relocate but honestly even my wife said "whens the last time you actually used windshield washer fluid" lol so Im not to concerned. And yeah i could care less about the body damage. Happened 3 months after i bought the car which was a bummer and was in a hard place then financially and used the repair check to live for a bit and have never really cared to repair it since its just so much $$$ and i would rather spend that on go fast bits


So I single spring modded the cx racing bov and its working wonderfully! Much better then the old turbo xs i had. Im still running vta right now but have run reciruculated and liked the smoothness so me thinks Ill be in for a Guardian Angel boost cut killer soon now that it has the vta setting. Loving the FMIC and im impressed with no leaks and no issues (crossing fingers) I cant wait to cut the crash bar, front and side grilles and align everything better this weekend!


She is only going to get cooler!!! Also i have plans to wrap the cold side in silver reflective cool wrap, will be wrapping my turbo, dp in titanium exhaust wrap, making a custom heat shield for the entire rear of the engine bay that directs the hot air up out of my hood vent may even go with a set of hood props. Also want to do the second temp sensor mod to keep my fans on, and will also be playing around with some other ideas to direct air into the IC better and cool off piping!

Things I have already done for cooling..... TB Coolant Bypass, zip tie rad fluid hose to CAI, removed front and back weather stripping, custom hood vent, elevated all IC piping off heat transferable contact points

[Mistersix]

zip tied rad hose to cai? What the hell would you do that for?

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Originally Posted by Mistersix zip tied rad hose to cai? What the hell would you do that for?

It is keeping it elevated off my bov pipe and keeping it nice and cool Its not heat soaking the CAI either its hovering. Ill be replacing the hose with a autozone one this weekend! i cant wait to get back under her and make all the improvements that have been staring me in the face, i jsut cant work on it until the weekends!!! Aaarrrgghhhhhhhhhhh

[Bjf]

Same pipe diameter and hotside routing as my project, nice to see someone else trying that.
With my setup i can't say that i agree on the "more horsepower" and no lag bit though, can you honestly say you don't feel any lag?

The feeling with my car is really like Mistersix describes, but with tuning and some tweaking i'm hoping it still will turn out great.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

I honestly do not feel a lag I do feel the lack of jumpiness/ edginess i guess but its not lag, Its just more directed power. im watching the psi build and its just as quick as ever, and holding way better then stock system. What size is your core? If your running a larger core you may see more lag? Feels very strong and pulls hard. Im very happy!!! I plan on reducing some of my bends more and simplifying the design more this weekend. I only have 2 x 90 degree bends in my system most are 45 and 75 and I believe that helps flow but i plan on opening up my 90s to either larger 90 degree angles or 75's. Also once i make my top coupling coming from the engine a 45 degree ill be able to elevate my pipe more and run it right across the engine eliminating one more bend. Ill take pictures of my piping this weekend when i take it off and also update my solid works drawings

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Decided to start compiling some data..... please let me know if you have figures that suggest other wise. All of this is based off of information i have searched on the internet.....


Stock k04 @ 15.6 psi @ 5560 rpm cfm flow rate of 491 cfm
Stock k04 @ 19 Psi @ 5560 rpm cfm flow rate of 564 cfm
BNR stage 3 25% more efficient then stock which puts it at about 614 cfm


CXracing intercooler max cfm flow rate of 700 cfm


PIPING FLOW RATES-

2" piping
1.57 x 2 = 3.14 sq in
300 cfm = 156 mph = 0.20 mach
400 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
500 cfm = 261 mph = 0.34 mach
585 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.25" piping
3.9740625 sq in = 1.98703125 x 2
300 cfm = 123 mph = 0.16 mach
400 cfm = 164 mph = 0.21 mach
500 cfm = 205 mph = 0.26 mach
600 cfm = 247 mph = 0.32 mach
700 cfm = 288 mph = 0.37 mach
740 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.5" piping
4.90625 sq in = 2.453125 x 2
300 cfm = 100 mph = 0.13 mach
400 cfm = 133 mph = 0.17 mach
500 cfm = 166 mph = 0.21 mach
600 cfm = 200 mph = 0.26 mach
700 cfm = 233 mph = 0.30 mach
800 cfm = 266 mph = 0.34 mach
900 cfm = 300 mph = 0.39 mach
913 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach

*.4 Mach is the point at which air becomes turbulent and losses in efficiency start to occur exponentially. The key is to stay under that speed. You want to use the smallest piping possible that still flows enough to meet your needs. Larger than necessary piping increases lag time with no measurable gain


So if you look at my current setup of stock boost and turbo I should technically be running 2in piping for max inefficiency but the 2.25in piping is still in the GOOD range. my plans are to run a BNR stage 3 upgrade in the future which puts me right in line with my goals and the cfm rating my system is setup for.

In my opinion it looks as if going to 2.5 piping would really require a BT setup with some high cfms other wise 2.25 is MONEY!


Also just found this....
http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-...tor/index.html

ill put in some numbers and see if i can make a graph that shows the bends and diameters with their pressure drops. Then i can calculate the entire systems pressure drop through solidworks calculating my inner area.

[Mistersix]

Originally Posted by Bjf Same pipe diameter and hotside routing as my project, nice to see someone else trying that. With my setup i can't say that i agree on the "more horsepower" and no lag bit though, can you honestly say you don't feel any lag? The feeling with my car is really like Mistersix describes, but with tuning and some tweaking i'm hoping it still will turn out great.

I've done some tweaking and tuning and its made a huge difference.

[Bjf]

Originally Posted by Mistersix I've done some tweaking and tuning and its made a huge difference.

Would you like to go into what you have done a little more in detail? Would be greatly appriciated.

Tap...

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Originally Posted by Mistersix I've done some tweaking and tuning and its made a huge difference.

Fantastic glad to hear! I have done the same just last night i replaced one of my 75 degree bend pipes with a 45 and then replaced another 90 bend with the 75 degree I gained from my other location. Lowering that resistence as much as possible really helps lag. I think i am seeing full boost at about 2500, 3000 rpms and strong boost!

Also please elaborate on the changes you made Ill be making a few more this weekend. Taking out pipe and decreasing bends. You look at the fmic kits before the DIY kits started happening and its like they didnt even have bend radii in mind..... but then again they are not chopping up the front bumper like I am I now have both of my fog light bezels cut to act as a air inlet on my tubes going in and out of the IC and THIS DOES HELP! i can feel the difference on the pipe with my hand. The pre intercooler hot side pipe is now much cooler and able to be touched by hand right after spirited driving! i may also put cooler fins on that specific pipe. we shall see. Thanks for all the support guys, i feel like the more we all research and share our different setups the more we can learn and create a really high performance system for pennies in comparison to the high dollar systems out there.

Ill also be up loading pics of my bov hard recirc pipe this weekend

[Bjf]

Sounds good, i'm not at full boost before 3500 rpm's at best.

I'm really interested in what can be done to improve response. Especially tuning wise.
Tap...

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

yeah i cant wait to get a cobb ap. Im still stock turbo and tune . But im really impressed with how much the fmic added without a tune but I know a tune would really get a lot out of the setup. plus once i get FP internals too i can raise the boost a few psi

[TiGraySpeed6]

Originally Posted by ESB Jiu JItsu yeah i cant wait to get a cobb ap. Im still stock turbo and tune . But im really impressed with how much the fmic added without a tune but I know a tune would really get a lot out of the setup. plus once i get FP internals too i can raise the boost a few psi

I'm not seeing anything that indicates you do, so I ask- Do you have any means of monitoring your fuel pressure currently?

I ask since there are two known items that will allow the fueling requirements to potentially exceed the stock HPFP- DP upgrades, and IC upgrades. Either one, alone, could do it, both combined will darn sure do it.

And you're doing a great job of improving airflow with your FMIC, drawing in more air, and cooler air, requiring more fuel, potentially more than the HPFP can handle....

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Im currently attempting to monitor using obd2 connection wifi and some android programs. i know its not the best solution but doing what i can. Will have some data up soon. So far everything seems okay I hope i stay on that side of things. But i do not have an upgraded dp and from what i have seen thats the kicker. I certainly appreciate the advice i will be monitoring it carefully.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Update: Managed to move around some pipes and take out some resistance in the form of bends and I believe the change is actually noticeable in the form of smoother boost . Removed one tight 90 elbow and changed it to a 30 degree pipe and 45 degree elbow at the turbo. Removed one 45 degree and replaced with a straight going across the engine. Also shortened the piping with my new route an estimated foot. So impressed with the performance. The car just hauls ass any time now and looks good doing it Also finished up hacking up my side fog light bezels and have full flow through air there now cooling the IC pipes. Im going to just keep improving the system and posting my results.