MS6 CXRacing 2.25 FMIC DIY Setup

[p057]

Originally Posted by ESB Jiu JItsu I honestly do not feel a lag I do feel the lack of jumpiness/ edginess i guess but its not lag, Its just more directed power. im watching the psi build

that is lag, bro.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

the feeling is better....smooth but the time in which it takes to build boost is the same. Feels strong....like bull! I highly recommend fmic on stock turbo! of course i have not had a upgraded TMIC so i cant speak on saying one way over the other but no heat soak is amazing and my stock IC must of had at least a few small leaks because im holding boost like a champ now! more pics and updated data, including solid works drawings, total volume of my system, calculated pressure drop, and resistance values.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Looking forward to the final list o parts & updated data.....

You've certainly peaked my interest!

[2.3speed06]

And more pics

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

more pics coming soon! I can upload those from my phone at work so hold tight! I need to update the op as well.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

UPDATE: 7/16/2012

Some pictures of the setup up to this point. Lot of the bends and setup has changed to allow for the best possible flow. I will update my parts list soon!





I went with the washer routing on the passenger side to keep bend radi at a minimum. I didnt notice a big difference in piping length going this route over the drop in front of the radiator option and i did not care about my washer fluid. Also notice I use 75 degree bends instead of 90s to reduce the resistance.



Went with the tight bend around the radiator on this side because I did notice a difference in piping length going this route and I didnt want to squeeze to many pipes through the same space due to the fact i run a CAI.



Top view of engine. Decided with a straight route across the engine to eliminate unneeded bends. Also used another 75 degree bend here vs the common 90 degree.



Recessed mounting bolts for the intercooler. No need for a bracket the height was perfect with the btm of the top half of the crash bar.





FULL PIPING LIST:
as of 7/16/2012



Turbo
2 to 2.25 Reducer 45 deg. Elbow Coupler
2.25 Pipe 30 deg. Bend + straight
2.25 Coupler
2.25 Straight Pipe
2.25 Coupler
2.25 Pipe 75 deg. Bend
2.25 Coupler
2.25 Pipe 45 deg. Bend + straight
2.25 Coupler
2.25 Pipe 75 Deg. Bend
2.25 to 2.5 Reducer Coupler
Intercooler
2.25 to 2.5 Reducer Coupler
2.25 Pipe 75 Deg. Bend
2.25- 45 Deg. Coupler
2.25 Pipe 30 Deg. Bend + Straight
2.25- 45 Deg. Coupler
2.25 BOV Flange Pipe
2.25 to 2.75 Reducer Coupler


I cannot stress how much research I have sorted through showing the resistance in the system in the form of bends is were the largest amount of pressure drop and flow restriction is. Here is a little blurb....

"So let’s cut to the chase - what are some of the useful figures? Let’s take a 3-inch tube: that’s pretty common these days on both high performance exhausts and intakes. A tight 90-degree bend (where ‘tight’ means a radius about equal to the diameter, ie in this case 3 inches) poses the same restriction as 7.5 feet (2.3 metres) of straight pipe!

A long radius 90-degree bend (a bend radius of 4.5 inches, or 11.4cm) has a flow restriction equal to about 5 feet (about 1.5 metres) of straight pipe.

A 45-degree bend? Well, one with a radius of bend the same as its 3-inch diameter has an equivalent flow restriction of 4 feet, or about 1.2 metres. A 180-degree bend with a 1:1 radius/diameter? It’s got the same flow restriction as 12 feet of straight pipe - that’s an incredible 3.7 metres!

Get the picture? Those bends - even when they are relatively open - drop flow to a major degree. If the mass of air contained within the pipework isn’t critical (eg as it is for intercooler plumbing, where throttle response loss needs to be minimised) it makes a helluva lot of sense to go much longer rather than put in tight bends."

So longer piping with less bends is infact better then shorter piping with drastic bends. I think this is another good reason to go the short rouse on one side and long on the other. To help keep a good balance. also may help some of you guys claiming to not have as quick of spool as stock when going to FMIC. Count your bends up and see

[2.3speed06]

So besides the obvious cutting of the crash bar, what else needed to be cut and by how much? Excellent write up tho dude.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

thankyou also check my last post i just updated it a bit..... I bent my horns in, i removed my washer fluid tank because i could care less about it and I modified my fog light housings but that was also because i installed custom hella projectors. Honestly if you get a base piping set anyone can come up with a fmic kit. Its really a mater of what are you willing to do without to make the "best" system. You could cut nothing and make the piping work with some extra bends here or there but removing and moving those pcs allowed for the best routing in my personal opinion.

[Mistersix]

Pretty good info there. I never thought about radii having such resistance.

Whats on your dash?

Can i request some pips of the foglight shrouds?

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Yeah, me either until I really started to read about it and now it sounds as if its more important then length. I think this means more then ever a certain balance needs to be achieved in the routing. But I easy made a system with minimal 90 deg bends, while most people just throw them every where. It takes a bit more time to design around using them but from what i have read small bend changes can make big differences in flow especially when in conjunction with each other. Again its all about what your willing to do away with to create the right routes to support longer less radical bends and still keep your piping to a minimum.


If your referring to the weird light in the center, i think what your seeing is the reflection of the overhead garage light on the glass. it does look odd though lol.

And yes fog light housing pictures coming up mind you they are not 100 percent perfect yet, but it looks decent for the time being until the next weekend and more time on the car!

Also i have some pictures of the metal bov return pipe. I finished it up and going to try and install at lunch. Will update that thread with pics shortly.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Originally Posted by Mistersix Pretty good info there. I never thought about radii having such resistance. Whats on your dash? Can i request some pips of the foglight shrouds?

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

some more good research and the next two steps to improve the FMIC setup....

How Intercoolers Work | What is an intercooler | Front Mount Intercooler FMIC


directing the air by making a outer duct around the intercooler to block off wandering air and direct flow. Ill also make sure to do this behind the FMIC as well to help take that air all the way through the radiator as i have read this is just as important.

Also will be mocking up a IC mister using oem washer tank, pump, and tubing but simplying adding a fan mister kit from home depot


10 ft. Flexible Misting Kit-52440 at The Home Depot

[Mistersix]

I've been considering some ducting around the ic as well. Wouldn't be to hard and if you paint it black it would be hard to see from the outside.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

the metal one on the website I posted looked clean. I may go with black plastic though. Excited to see what this weekend yields !

[greenespeed]

ESB Jiu JItsu
Good job on all this research and on the project itself. I am needing a fmic as it seems the ms6 bat's run hotter than the ms3 for some reason. Especially in this muggy heat in TN. If you don't mind saying, what approx. is the cost of what you have done so far?
Is it necessary to cut the fog light surrounds for the piping or can it fit without cutting?

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

honestly its all in the routing i think you could get around it with the proper bends but i said fuck it and cut it lol. Its really not that hard. a dremel will do the trick for all the small trimming. I would say total I have spent no more then 250 and you could get away with spending less if you replicate the setup I just updated in one of my last posts. But just be mindful i was willing to cut and play around with the setup. my goal is best efficiency with the most cost effective setup. I still ended up having many couplings and pipe left over from my initial setup. In fact really the only thing you cant have enough of is t bolt clamps

[2.3speed06]

I just really don't want to cut my crash bar at all. But it'll sit way to low if I don't huh

[greenespeed]

Originally Posted by 2.3speed06 I just really don't want to cut my crash bar at all. But it'll sit way to low if I don't huh

I think cutting the crash bar places the ic where it needs to be. Looks as if you didn't cut it to fit you would be losing some air flow on the bottom of the ic. Probably the same reason why some people have cut out more of the mesh grille to open up more air flow to the ic.

You could however always run a smaller ic that would fit flush to the crash bar without cutting. Or you could buy my cpe tmic and then I could do a fmic cause I don't mind cutting the crash bar at all.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

good info above.

opt 1- smaller intercooler height wise but thicker core? I myself thought taller wider plus thinner core allows for more flow to the radiator so thats why i went the route i did.

opt 2- place the intercooler behind the crash bar. At first i had my IC angled so some was a little behind the crash bar before i went the cutting route

opt 3- cut the crash bar....its only the lower half....the top half is still intact and functional to an extent. it at least holds up the IC nicely But i agree cutting he crash bar puts it exactly where it needs to be for best flow and air contact.


Ill be cutting my grill this weekend to see if ill continue to go grilless or not Just love seeing that big ol intercooler every time i look

[2.3speed06]

I think I'll pass on the top mount, thanks tho. Looks like I get a hacking away at that crash bar lol

[greenespeed]

Originally Posted by 2.3speed06 I think I'll pass on the top mount, thanks tho. Looks like I get a hacking away at that crash bar lol

If you get going on this before I do let's set up a meet and do it then. I'd like to help with it and plan for mine.

[2.3speed06]

Sounds good to me dude. I think I'm going to do the 2.25 instead of the 2.5. I really like this setup a lot. Same goes for you tho. If you do it before I do I wanna be there n help.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

make a template of your IC, made things very easy! Measure 5 times cut once lol

You will not be disappointed with the 2.25 piping! Keep the 90 degree bends to a minimum, good luck and have fun!!!!

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

My front mount intercooler air duct is almost complete! Might be test fitting this weekend out of some plastic corrugated, but intend to product out of HDPE plastic or just get it welded in aluminum





This will go directly in front of the FMIC to collect all the air coming into the front grill and direct it to the exact extents of the intercooler

[Mistersix]

The only way to do it without cutting the crash bar is to go behind the crash bar. Alot of FMIC kits are like this and work fine so its not completely unreasonable.

Under the crash bar is, imho. Even if you went with CXracing's smallest core which is 5.5" tall you would still have to cut some of the air diverter. If your considering FMIC, keep in my this car was not designed to have one. Much modification in the way of cutting and hacking will be in order.

Cutting the crashbar however, allows maximum airflow to the ic. Which is key and the whole reason for the mod.

take the image below for example. This is all out. Crash bar removed and all the holes in the grille carved out. Its a bitch, but just look at it. It looks bad ass. And BAT's at and lower than IAT's every time i mash the throttle. This thing is just begging for a BT.

p.s. the pic is crooked. Not the ic.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Looks great! and btw I went with a 7in core and only had to cut 1/2 the crash bar and i did not have to cut any of the air diverter. Fits perfectly. I decided to go with the natural angle of the crash bar and it worked perfectly to get me maximum space! the angle is maybe 5 deg at most, but worked perfectly check my pics!

Mistersix Im sure it does want BT that IC is huge!!!!


Im trying to compile a list of the bend resistance of the 2.25 and 2.5 pipe bends so we can all calculate our projected losses Im very excited to see how some of the high dollar setups compare to our cost effect diy's Most of the IC kits I see have tons of 90 deg bends to accommodate for a lot of the stock equipment, so I expect their efficiency to be much lower.

[Mistersix]

Damn bro thats some vodoo magic. you fit that with only cutting half the bar? Fucking A!

My core looks huge but its only 8" tall. It looked tiny outta the package. But once it was in the bumper opening i was like damn, that fuckers huge.

I'd bet the DIY's are every bit as good as the 4 digit kits. Your just paying for the guess work and some welds. The kits do have that on us. Less couplers and more pipes actually welded together. This, something i'm currently considering.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Originally Posted by Mistersix Damn bro thats some vodoo magic. you fit that with only cutting half the bar? Fucking A! My core looks huge but its only 8" tall. It looked tiny outta the package. But once it was in the bumper opening i was like damn, that fuckers huge. I'd bet the DIY's are every bit as good as the 4 digit kits. Your just paying for the guess work and some welds. The kits do have that on us. Less couplers and more pipes actually welded together. This, something i'm currently considering.

hahahaha!

And yeah I agree but Ill have mine welded once I have a few extra bucks. I found a local guy that will weld it up for me. I have enough extra pcs to replace my elbows so must of my couplings will be replaced. Because i agree i want an issue free kit and for that you want bead on all the ends and you want as little couplings as possible, plus that will only aid the flow of the kit Im excited to get to that stage.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

UPDATE!

I Was finally able to log some runs last night to check and make sure my fuel pump is holding up to all my cooling mods and the results seem to be great! @ idle 174c coolant temp 630 psi on the pump and @ wot I was hitting up to 1783 but holding over 1600 easy on a 110,000 mile car I would say thats pretty awesome for stock internals! Hopefully i can pony up some cash to get a full version of this app so I can measure bats soon as well.

[dale_gribble]

Here is my input on cutting the crash bar. It seems kind of crazy to me. It is the only piece of any kind of rigidity on the front of the car. There are literally no other crossmembers ahead of the cabin. Cutting that has to reduce rigidity and impact safety. I would only cut the crossbar if I made up for the cuts with some kind of additional strengthening/reinforcement in the cut area.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

I agree with you to an extend which is why i kept half intact, although Im sure that wont do much but neither does the stock crash bar in full form. Its only rated for 5mph, so i have read......

[dale_gribble]

When I did my fmic I was kind of shocked that the crash bar was all there was up front. I was surprised there wasnt a cross member below the motor or tying the suspension together up front.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

I would have to agree especially when I thought....hmmm it will be easier to cut if i remove it and quickly found out everything is tied to that wee crash bar up front. lol.

[redmnsterut]

Originally Posted by greenespeed ESB Jiu JItsu Good job on all this research and on the project itself. I am needing a fmic as it seems the ms6 bat's run hotter than the ms3 for some reason. Especially in this muggy heat in TN. If you don't mind saying, what approx. is the cost of what you have done so far? Is it necessary to cut the fog light surrounds for the piping or can it fit without cutting?

GO with the FMIC for sure, I did this and love it! I would also agree with running hotter than the MS3

Originally Posted by 2.3speed06 I just really don't want to cut my crash bar at all. But it'll sit way to low if I don't huh

I didn't cut mine, I just mounted it right below. I cant fit the lower valance, but I pick insurance covering my car in the event of front impact over having it on. redmnsterut 06 MS6

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Here is my input on cutting the crash bar. It seems kind of crazy to me. It is the only piece of any kind of rigidity on the front of the car. There are literally no other crossmembers ahead of the cabin.

My reasoning for not cutting almost exactly, and also that I don't want insurance deciding to not cover my car if something were to happen.

OP great right up! you have spent a lot of time and have some great ideas. Will be interested in the air duct you are coming up with.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

thanks for the info and for the appreciation! I will be updating more info this weekend on the setup. plan on wrapping the cold pipes and working more on my air collectors and directors! There is a lot to be gained from a FMIC setup you just have to go all the way with it. I hope to see a big drop in BATs and ambient under hood temps and a huge increase in air flow just from the front collector alone!

also prior to cutting the crash bar I had my intercooler slightly angled behind the crash bar as well.... just another option for those not wanting to cut and keep the stock btm valance but will loose some flow.

[TiGraySpeed6]

FWIW, the sub-frame is a pre-stressed square which handles all the mounted component stress & flex duties ahead of the firewall. (engine & suspension)

I'm not gonna make the claim that cutting the crash bar is no big deal, folks would get all in a tizzy about that & I don't wish for that battle.

I would say tho that If I were to install a FMIC, I would cut it in a heartbeat. Especially so for the half cut represented here.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

thank you for that added information. makes me feel a bit better I certianly do not feel bad cutting half, plus it made the perfect mounting bracket lol, cant get anymore solid then that

[2.3speed06]

Damn it man, decisions decisions....

[dale_gribble]

I was able to get my CX Racing FMIC below the crash bar and still keep the lower valance in place. This did require some major surgery on the valance though. I need to realign the FMIC to the center of the car; I didn't realize that it was slightly off center until I got it all back together.



I think the FMIC looks WAY BETTER if it is up in the grille ala cut crash bar like yours. Functional wise, I don't think it really matters that much in terms of airflow across the IC. I am sure my IC is getting plenty of airflow though I may revisit better directing the air with a shroud myself.

Hey, I learned that the hose clamps get a little loose as the FMIC stuff heat cycles a few times. Don't forget to go back through and retighten everything.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

i agree with retightening everything!!!! i was amazed how loose some pipes were and didnt blow off. But i also took a lot of time scuffing the ends and making sure of a tight fit. I think that saved me, that and the fact i have been tweaking the kit actively so im always checking the pipes/connections.

One thing i do not respectfully agree with is the air flow and dynamics involved where your IC is mounted. I do like the fact you didnt cut the crash bar but I dont see how it could flow well through the back of the IC into the rad with it being that low? Even i have mine slightly angled to help direct air back up towards the rad. and this is often overlooked..... the IC will direct the air coming through it so its important to point and shoot it at the radiator! a lot of the research i have been doing is about air flow and making the FMIC setup as efficient as possible and it all comes down to getting as much air to it as possible and improving flow through it, all while not impeding the radiators performance. Its a balancing act but really it just comes down to how far are you willing to go to get the most out of the setup. I would of cut the entire crash bar if needed but luckily my setup did not demand it.



oh and btw the white looks amazing!!!! beautiful car!