Streetunit Top Mount Vs. Any Front Mount

[smoogs12]

Originally Posted by COspeed6 What would explain this? Relevant mods: Cobb Sri and CPE tmic. ECT top left, BAT top right, IAT bottom left, ambient air

Your situation is not the same.

Your AMB temp is the coldest, then your IAT gets hotter, and then your BATs are second coldest (after being cooled by the intercooler).

What would be weird is if for example your AMB temp was x, then your IAT was x+1 and your BATs were x-1. Your bats are colder that the air that is cooling your intercooler. Im pretty sure that this goes against the 2nd (?) law of thermodynamics.

My knowledge of the laws is basic, so if anyone can elaborate, please do.

[Mistersix]

While i agree the intercooler is not gonna cool the charge lower than ambient and my previous post i was not suggesting that. At or below IAT is completely reasonable.

However, at or near ambient is possible as i've seen that from my ic as well. In fact on its maiden voyage, me and Ray Danger 2020 seen it come within 5-6 degrees of ambient on a 90 degree day.

Below ambient? well no. Thats not gonna happen. But at or lower than IAT is a normal thing for my set up.

[smoogs12]

Mistersix yeah after going back and looking at your log I realized this was not what you meant.

Was only going by the post by alphasaur that said you were cooling lower that amb.

[Mistersix]

Right, just wanted to make the record straight.

[Ray Danger 2020]

It's entirely possible for the BAT's to be lower than IAT's. It's actually suprising that people don't already understand that. But, being that I'm not a physicist, or good with words for that matter, I can't explain to you how it works properly...but I will give it a shot. When the wind blows, the air feels cooler. The air is still just as hot as the rest of the air, but because it's moving it feels cool. And as you would move faster, the air would feel progressively much cooler (at least until the point where the friction of the air on your skin would cause it to be hot). Everyone has stuck their arm out the window at some point going 80. The air feels cold. So it's basically that same kinda principle that is relatve to this conversation. The air, because it's moving faster (or you're moving faster through it) feels colder and would pull the heat out of the intercooler more efficiently. I'm sure there's more to it than that but like I said. I'm not a physicist.

[smoogs12]

Ray Danger 2020

I agree completely that bats can be near or at the temp of your iat (if you have a big enough het exchanger and enough air flow).

What I am saying is impossible (with the basic knowledge of the laws of thermodynamics that I have) for your bats to be cooler than AMBIENT air temps.






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[mituc]

The BAT's can't be cooler than the IAT's unless the radiator used to cool the air down (in this case the intercooler) has some external/additional help such as a liquid evaporating and absorbing heat (water wetters?) or a large fan blowing into it (the fan effect probably can be achieved during long high speed runs because this effect needs more time to manifest itself).
Otherwise on our planet or anywhere the laws of the thermodynamics as we know it work everything tends to cool down (or heat up) to the same temperature as the surrounding ambient.

Now, I'm using the SU TMIC for 2 years and a few months now. After going big turbo (which made the biggest difference in BAT's) when the ambient are around or below 30C (85-86F) the BAT's are 20 Celsius more, so around 48-52C at 30C AAT (118-125F).
With the stock K04 I had the same 20C difference when the AAT where significantly cooler (10-15C/50-60F)

So if you want cooler BAT's get any decent TMIC on the market and go big turbo.
This crappy war TMIC against FMIC is always about TMIC heat soaking in stop&go traffic where BAT's don't really matter. Where it matters is during hard acceleration and/or/during track days when a FMIC will heat soak the engine radiator. So with the price of BAT's like 5-10C lower compared to a TMIC you get 10-15C more ECT - fuck that!
Also, for short pulls such as drag racing or street roll racing the FMIC will be a bit more efficient because the engine coolant will not have enough time to heat up enough for the radiator not to handle the cooling.
So choose based on what you want to do with your car and/or your budget. But since you're asking about the SU TMIC specifically I can confirm that it's a good part (as well as the others mentioned in this thread though).

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by COspeed6 What would explain this? Relevant mods: Cobb Sri and CPE tmic. ECT top left, BAT top right, IAT bottom left, ambient air

This is easy !!

This happens always with SRI and sitting in traffic specially on hot days. Typically while driving your IAT's and BAT's are normal (IAT's near ambient and BAT's slightly higher). But when you start slowing down your IAT's rise rapidly because the SRI is located in the engine compartment, all that engine bay heat is directly injested through the filter and passes over the IAT sensor registering your IAT as very hot. Its the same idea of placing a bottle of water in the freezer to cool it more rapidly, but instead you find yourself placing the bottle in between other frozen items so that it can cool even faster. The IAT sensor is so close to the immediate engine bay heat that as soon as you slow down, it registers very hot. Since your second IAT sensor is in the manifold, AND after the intercooler, it does take some time before the BAT temperature will be registered as very hot (obviously only a couple minutes but way faster than the IAT's). Thats really all it is.

Unless you have such a bad problem with engine bay heat that your filter is always pulling in extreme heat, its mainly just a situation of the IAT thermometer being so close to engine bay heat. That is why the most ideal situation is when the car is moving because there is adequite airflow to the air filter and intercooler and you will see the temperature differential be as it should.

Side Note: It IS possible to have BAT's lower than your IAT's (in the ideal situation where airflow is adequite to both). But typically this is not seen with most Air to Air intercoolers. Technically, your intercooler could not decrease the temperature of the charged air lower than the ambient air cooling it, unless it was made of some other material that transfered heat much faster but then it would render itself useless because the cores would be heatsoaked to hell. Thats why Water to Air intercoolers have the ability to be more than 100% efficient. Water has a higher specific heat ratio than air does (it can accept more heat before its temperature rises by 1°). When it comes to intercoolers, its not really about how fast you can withdraw the heat, but the quantity of heat and how efficiently can you cool the cores to continually and adequitely pull heat out of the charged air.

[Ray Danger 2020]

You can get BAT's pretty damn close to AMB temps tho. Mistersix's logs after his FMIC install prove that. TMIC's are hard pressed to get close though because they sit right on top of a +/- 180* hunk of metal...lol. With my Corksport TMIC, the best I can do is get about 20* above AMB temps and almost nail my IAT's...but only for a very brief period of time before the stock K04 turns into a flamethrower. On the highway cruising at 75mph, BAT's sit about 30* over AMB. But if I punch it, again, I get about 18*-20* above AMB at best.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

I hope to have some BAT data to compare after my FMIC setup install. I know it sure runs amazing now and SOP dyno is through the roof lol I want to make sure i have some before and after data once i finish my front air collector.

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by Ray Danger 2020 It's entirely possible for the BAT's to be lower than IAT's. It's actually suprising that people don't already understand that. But, being that I'm not a physicist, or good with words for that matter, I can't explain to you how it works properly...but I will give it a shot. When the wind blows, the air feels cooler. The air is still just as hot as the rest of the air, but because it's moving it feels cool. And as you would move faster, the air would feel progressively much cooler (at least until the point where the friction of the air on your skin would cause it to be hot). Everyone has stuck their arm out the window at some point going 80. The air feels cold. So it's basically that same kinda principle that is relatve to this conversation. The air, because it's moving faster (or you're moving faster through it) feels colder and would pull the heat out of the intercooler more efficiently. I'm sure there's more to it than that but like I said. I'm not a physicist.

sorry, no. everything you just said defies physics. that's not how heat works. heats flows much like water, hotter to colder. only reason one feels cooler when wind is being blown over them is because the air is cooler and because we produce sweat which evaporates and produces a cooling effect. intercoolers don't work the same way. you can't take air (iat, effectively ambient air as that is the starting point) have that air go through a hot turbo and then cool the air with an intercooler and end up with air cooler than the initial oat, defies physics.

I think the issue us, which has been alluded to, the oat reports temps incorrectly.

[Ray Danger 2020]

Originally Posted by alphasaur sorry, no. everything you just said defies physics. that's not how heat works. heats flows much like water, hotter to colder. only reason one feels cooler when wind is being blown over them is because the air is cooler and because we produce sweat which evaporates and produces a cooling effect. intercoolers don't work the same way. you can't take air (iat, effectively ambient air as that is the starting point) have that air go through a hot turbo and then cool the air with an intercooler and end up with air cooler than the initial oat, defies physics. I think the issue us, which has been alluded to, the oat reports temps incorrectly.

Don't forget to take into account that the IAT's are higher than AAT's.. The intake IS sitting by a big hunk of metal that's ~180 degrees.. So the air in the engine compartment, even though you're moving, is going to be probably like 10 degrees warmer than air outside it.. You don't have to believe it's possible to get BAT's below IAT's but Mistersix has many datalogs that say otherwise.. Pretty much every time he punches it, he gets either right at or below IAT's..

[thatsmrgimp2u]

I've had the su for almost a year and it cools very effectively in my opinion. Average 10-14 degrees higher than ambient temps at speed. However, shroud rattles a bit (not with the top down but it's still a nuisance on the dyno) and the forward tabs have broken on mine twice... Had a friend weld in some support for them and they haven't given me issues since. I recommend switching to nylock nuts with any tmic, as mine kept coming loose.

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[Mistersix]

Here's a quick example, again. This was a heat soaked run to about 4 grand. If i would have keep in it BAT's would have just dipped below IAT's