Chassis braces ?????

[Cheeto]

Sub to find out how Haltechs goes and looking for that MS6 link as well so holla.

[Frequentflyer]

How much does all this shit weigh?

[guitarzan134]

All the parts, individually, are very light. The four point front brace only weighs a couple of pounds, and it's one of the larger single pieces.

Side note- in being light, they're not indestructible. I'll try to snap a pic tomorrow, but my front brace has a decent dent in the top cross member. Two days after I bought the car, before I knew the bracing was there, I took it to a detail shop/wash. They couldn't pull the car through the machine because it was "too low" (stock height). The guiderail was hitting something. Put it on my buddys lift later that day and discovered everything. Dent is still there. Car still feels great. I've put 40k on it in ~17mos, including a trip to the Dragon.

[heeltoe]

Originally Posted by 08cosmic3 I have the opportunity to get a used whole brace set for our car dirt cheap. Even though it's cheap I don't want to spend the money if the benefit is minimal. I have a Cobb RSB and FSD's as my only suspension mods. I travel to Tail of the Dragon 2-3 times per year and might start AutoXing the car. The set is a mix of GT spec and KX F3, mostly Kx F3. Does it help much or a waste of money?

Do you have any lowering springs installed? are u worried about the under brace scraping over speed bumps and drive ways? i was thinking about getting them but not sure about the clearance and street ability.

[Etipp98]

Im interested on a 10 pc set!

[08cosmic3]

I'm not lowered so no problem for me but I could see how someone slammed might scrape. My question to you then is if you are wanting your slammed car to handle better then un slam it.

I love my set. I have Koni FSD's on stock springs with a Cobb rear sway. I don't have the front lower tie brace or a trunk brace. I might get the trunk cage someday but I don't see how the trunk brace would help much and tightening up the front too much on a FWD car will cause you to loose grip hence is why I still have the stock front sway and won't be putting on the front lower tie brace.

There is a fitment issue with the front lower tie on the older ones. GTSPEC recently redesigned that part so it would fit.

[08cosmic3]

A company called Tigertunning has them in red slightly cheaper than GTSPEC but still much more expensive than the price Haltech got them for. I have 1 pc that's GT spec and the quality looks the same.

Tiger Tuning | Mazda 3/Mazdaspeed 3 (2004 - 2009)

[heeltoe]

anyone running this chassis brace setup with H&R or Swift or Eibachs and not have any problems with scraping the bottom?

[K.Mah]

Originally Posted by Haltech So i got into touch with this Chinese outfit who sells these knock off's. I have an entire 10 pc set enroute. I'm going to test em. If they hold up, i may just sell em. So i plan to give them a nice workout.

Interested! If you need a gen2 for fitment let me know, Im in your area

[exentix]

50% off sale right now with tb performance if anybody is interested?

TB Performance-Products | Facebook

[lilred]

Originally Posted by exentix 50% off sale right now with tb performance if anybody is interested? TB Performance-Products | Facebook

Cough Oliverms3 cough

tapafuck

[Frequentflyer]

Originally Posted by exentix 50% off sale right now with tb performance if anybody is interested? TB Performance-Products | Facebook

High strength polymer?

[Oliverms3]

Originally Posted by lilred Cough Oliverms3 cough tapafuck

Lol.... 50% huh... Aiint buying that for shit if thats 90% off

[Ms3_Miami]

Im intrested in this, waiting on Haltech's review to jump the gun.
Constantin Im thinking of getting a trunk brace too, lmk when you install it i wanna see it. btw how much you getting it for??

[Constantin]

Originally Posted by Ms3_Miami Im intrested in this, waiting on Haltech's review to jump the gun. Constantin Im thinking of getting a trunk brace too, lmk when you install it i wanna see it. btw how much you getting it for??

I'm getting a used one for about half off... With your brace behind the front seats, you mine as well get all the braces for the car Hopefully I'll get it installed before AutoX.

Originally Posted by exentix 50% off sale right now with tb performance if anybody is interested? TB Performance-Products | Facebook

They are cut and welded, not even bent.........

[exentix]

Lol sorry guys I don't have them just saw the link figured I'd share.

[Ms3_Miami]

Originally Posted by Constantin I'm getting a used one for about half off... With your brace behind the front seats, you mine as well get all the braces for the car Hopefully I'll get it installed before AutoX. They are cut and welded, not even bent.........

yea im getting all of them. Im waiting for Haltechs review

[dpolseno41]

I'm currently in the process of making a rear hatch brace. I already made bracing months ago for myself but I came up with a new idea that should take the guess work out of cutting the interior and be the cleanest set up. I see no need to brace anything except the rear strut towers. I'll post some pictures here when it's done.

[Nliiitend1]

Lol.

The MS3 doesn't have rear strut towers...

[dpolseno41]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 Lol. The MS3 doesn't have rear strut towers...

You know what I mean! I call them strut towers in my mind to keep it simple but admittedly I'm completely wrong in doing so haha This was my first crack at it. I've since taken out the cross bracing when I was lying under my car one day and realized it isn't doing shit when looking at how the body/ chassis is set up.

[TRex]

honestly all this bracing shit is silly imo

the only part of the car the needs tightening up is the ass end and at the most a rear tie bar (with rsb) is all you need.............maybe a hatch brace if you really want to go crazy

but if you got the moniez, hey more power to you

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by TRex honestly all this bracing shit is silly imo the only part of the car the needs tightening up is the ass end and at the most a rear tie bar (with rsb) is all you need.............maybe a hatch brace if you really want to go crazy but if you got the moniez, hey more power to you

You apparently havent been driving cars on the track to make a statement like this. Hatchbacks have a lot of flex.

Polsen, nice braces... But why are you those spherical ends?

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by dpolseno41 You know what I mean! I call them strut towers in my mind to keep it simple but admittedly I'm completely wrong in doing so haha This was my first crack at it. I've since taken out the cross bracing when I was lying under my car one day and realized it isn't doing shit when looking at how the body/ chassis is set up.

Further to the point, even tying the tops of the two shocks together does very little, if anything, to better brace the car from suspension loading.

Those shocks pretty much carry zero lateral load...

Of course, bracing the shit out of open space in the hatch of the car (with the likes of a welded-in cage or similar) will increase the car's rigidity, but at the expense of cargo room, which was the reason a lot of us bought hatchbacks in the first place. Furthermore, the tangible handling benefits of doing something like that on a car that is still utilizing rubber suspension bushings are for all intents and purposes imperceptible...

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 Further to the point, even tying the tops of the two shocks together does very little, if anything, to better brace the car from suspension loading. Those shocks pretty much carry zero lateral load...

That bar should be tying the two rear shock towers together. Then underneath the rear, a lateral g load brace should be added.

Not sure why the are tying to top of the shocks together.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by Haltech That bar should be tying the two rear shock towers together. Then underneath the rear, a lateral g load brace should be added. Not sure why the are tying to top of the shocks together.

Again, the "rear shock towers" (which are really nothing more than small insets in the wheel wells) carry almost zero lateral load. All of the lateral rear suspension forces are being handled by the floor of the car (through the rear subframe attachment points).

If you want to increase rear rigidity in a meaningful way, you need to tie the rear underfloor (where the subframe bolts up) directly to a bracing system that utilizes decent cage geometry (and that is tied into the roof and sides in multiple places)...

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 Again, the "rear shock towers" (which are really nothing more than small insets in the wheel wells) carry almost zero lateral load. All of the lateral rear suspension forces are being handled by the floor of the car (through the rear subframe attachment points). If you want to increase rear rigidity in a meaningful way, you need to tie the rear underfloor (where the subframe bolts up) directly to a bracing system that utilizes decent cage geometry (and that is tied into the roof and sides in multiple places)...

Not sure where you are arriving at this decision, however a parallel bar to the subframe will indeed aide in the reduction of chassis flex. If you do not think the rear shock towers flex, then go push your car to the limits on uneven surfaces, while moving fast and making aggressive turns. Ie.. canyon runs...You will hear the rear hatch popping on you.

Since this cars subframe uses bolts and the front portion requires its subframe to be unbolted to remove the front swaybar, I wouldn't recommend welding in subframe connectors. However, subframe connectors will greatly remove unwanted flex while tying the front to the rear. We could in theory, build bolt in subframes connectors, although not as strong as welding, to facilitate in a stronger chassis.

None of our cars are really race cars.... So a cage is out and very dangerous to have in a daily driver. So we have to become a bit creative in our endeavors. The aftermarket really hasn't addressed flex in our chassis. But it's there... Especially innthe rear hatch area... And a good majority of it CAN be removed without having to take extreme measures.

[Erich]

Originally Posted by guitarzan134 I just came across this thread. I was fortunate enough to inherit the full gt-spec chassis bracing, sans in-car trunk cage, when I bought my Juan. Seeing how much space the cage takes up, i'm glad it was gone. The people @ gt-spec have great customer service, too. While changing out my rmm a few days ago, I noticed that one bolt was missing from the 4 point front brace. I fished the receiver/nut out of the cars frame and rigged it temporarily. Called them up and inquired about a replacement. They said to send a pic of the brace and the broken nut and they'd ship out a new one immediately. Didn't matter that I wasn't the original buyer. As for it's effectiveness, the car is fucking solid. I have yet to give it more than it can take. I'm sure I would chicken out before I reached it's limit.

Better to find that limit under a controlled condition then find it while driving hard or having to avoid an unforeseen situation. If you really aren't sure about finding it yourself, lots of car clubs offer classes that will have an experienced driver to help you find it and handle when you are close/there.

[heeltoe]

Do it the right way and inject some foam into ur chassis lol

[bostongeorge]

Been wanting to do this for awhile now. Looking forward to Haltech's review.

[dpolseno41]

Originally Posted by Haltech Not sure where you are arriving at this decision, however a parallel bar to the subframe will indeed aide in the reduction of chassis flex. If you do not think the rear shock towers flex, then go push your car to the limits on uneven surfaces, while moving fast and making aggressive turns. Ie.. canyon runs...You will hear the rear hatch popping on you. Since this cars subframe uses bolts and the front portion requires its subframe to be unbolted to remove the front swaybar, I wouldn't recommend welding in subframe connectors. However, subframe connectors will greatly remove unwanted flex while tying the front to the rear. We could in theory, build bolt in subframes connectors, although not as strong as welding, to facilitate in a stronger chassis. None of our cars are really race cars.... So a cage is out and very dangerous to have in a daily driver. So we have to become a bit creative in our endeavors. The aftermarket really hasn't addressed flex in our chassis. But it's there... Especially innthe rear hatch area... And a good majority of it CAN be removed without having to take extreme measures.

For the record, when I put in the bar that connects the two rear towers and tightened it, there was an audible POP. I could keep popping and un-popping it. It's definitely stressing some point of the body. Overall the car feels a little bit more planted to me. Nothing crazy but still a noticeable difference.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by Haltech Not sure where you are arriving at this decision, however a parallel bar to the subframe will indeed aide in the reduction of chassis flex. If you do not think the rear shock towers flex, then go push your car to the limits on uneven surfaces, while moving fast and making aggressive turns. Ie.. canyon runs...You will hear the rear hatch popping on you. Since this cars subframe uses bolts and the front portion requires its subframe to be unbolted to remove the front swaybar, I wouldn't recommend welding in subframe connectors. However, subframe connectors will greatly remove unwanted flex while tying the front to the rear. We could in theory, build bolt in subframes connectors, although not as strong as welding, to facilitate in a stronger chassis. None of our cars are really race cars.... So a cage is out and very dangerous to have in a daily driver. So we have to become a bit creative in our endeavors. The aftermarket really hasn't addressed flex in our chassis. But it's there... Especially innthe rear hatch area... And a good majority of it CAN be removed without having to take extreme measures.

"Strut towers" carry lateral suspension loads. The rear "shock towers" do not.

A parallel bar along the floor of the car connecting the areas where the rear subframe bolts up will do way more than any bar stretched between the vertical sides of the rear cargo area,

I don't know why you're throwing talk about the front subframe into this conversation, as I never mentioned it...

You guys are chasing the sun with these stupid bolt-in hatch cargo area "braces."

Until I see a true before/after chassis rigidity study to prove their worth, I won't be putting much stock into them.

[MonstaSpeed6]

I need these in my life! Just got a set of H&R Streets, and in the summer im throwing on some Sonic tuning wheels 8.5" with 235 Nitto NT05s, then im going Evo hunting!

Haltech will you be helping us MS6s out. Were like the abortions that just happened to survive. So we're hated through life. Lol

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 "Strut towers" carry lateral suspension loads. The rear "shock towers" do not. A parallel bar along the floor of the car connecting the areas where the rear subframe bolts up will way more than any bar stretched between the vertical sides of the rear cargo area, I don't know why you're throwing talk about the front subframe into this conversation, as I never mentioned it... You guys are chasing the sun with these stupid bolt-in hatch cargo area "braces." Until I see a true before/after chassis rigidity study to prove their worth, I won't be putting much stock into them.

Oh you are one of these types... who can't read.... Rear Strut bars limit g-loading, it doesn't matter whether the car is fwd, rwd or awd. Doesn't even matter if the car is a hatchback, notchback or convertible... They can easily account for 15% reduction in chassis flex... They work even better with a lower bar or you can make the rear tower bar a 3 point system to omit the lower bar. An X brace is the ultimate to tie all four corners together in the hatch area, but now.. you have just limited the use of a hatchback. If you make a compromise like the guy above did by having the x brace removable by using pins, then you can use this system when tracking with effective results.


Subframe connectors are relative to this conversation... And it wasn't written in context to your comment directly. What you just described in your owns words was a subframe connector.

I do believe a box has 4 sides... if you reinforce only 2 sides, you are left with two sides vulnerable. IF you tie one of those sides into a V, you are left with one unprotected side... Are you tracking yet? Your worthless lateral bar now comes into play here... You can use it, top or bottom to tie the fourth side together.

If you cannot be constructive in this conversion, then stay just stay out of it.

Originally Posted by MonstaSpeed6 I need these in my life! Just got a set of H&R Streets, and in the summer im throwing on some Sonic tuning wheels 8.5" with 235 Nitto NT05s, then im going Evo hunting! Haltech will you be helping us MS6s out. Were like the abortions that just happened to survive. So we're hated through life. Lol

I would have to order 100 sets for the mazda 6 in order to get that low pricing. With the lower number of sets, comes a higher price. I know 100 MS6 guys will not order chassis bracing. Hell, not even 100 MS3's will either.

[Ferdball]

Kevin vs Nliiitend1 (sp?) in a suspension war. Great lernin here for everyone.

I've had gt spec knock offs from China for about 3 years now.

One of the pieces they replace weighs 10 lbs, so I don't know why anyone would think they weigh more.

My impression is that they most fucking definitely help reduce chassis flex. This helps other suspension components and systems do their jobs better. This also allows springs and danpeners from having to be stiffer, helping with everyday comfort and compliance.

These braces make me feel like the weak part of the suspension is now the tire grip. Right now, I think r compound tires would show the next component weakness. That could very well be the tops of the rear shocks.

Think about it, mazdaspeed dudes improved two things regarding the chassis, the front towers and the rear. I believe they would have also put a bar across the rear if they thought they could get away with it.

Sent while sitting on the throne.

[Ferdball]

Stealth black is the way to go, by the way.

[Constantin]

Gentlemen, lets do some testing. I'm willing to be the test subject for the trunk brace. I have all stock suspension, besides JBR RSB and end links. At ~73k miles, my suspension is quite floppy.

Now, I don't track the car, but there is an AutoX coming up. What I can do 1/2 runs w/o trunk brace and 1/2 with trunk brace.

I will need your help finding out how to properly measure the differences. Is there a tool to measure it? For example if the string is tied in the trunk with the measuring tool in the middle that will show the tension on the string?

Tomas, from seeing your post here and there, it seems like you have a vast suspension experience. Will be nice to hear from you about the entire subject.

[EvoFire]

In for sub.
Haltech is $225 shipped? I would be very interested. I don't think it would be a problem to grab more than a handful together to purchase these parts, maybe not 100, but 30ppl probably shouldn't be a problem.

The Genwon MS3 is a lot stiffer than my old car, but not as stiff as I like it to be

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by EvoFire In for sub. Haltech is $225 shipped? I would be very interested. I don't think it would be a problem to grab more than a handful together to purchase these parts, maybe not 100, but 30ppl probably shouldn't be a problem. The Genwon MS3 is a lot stiffer than my old car, but not as stiff as I like it to be

It would be a lot more than that. Probably low $300s for the kit, then once they arrive, they have to be shipped again.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by Haltech It would be a lot more than that. Probably low $300s for the kit, then once they arrive, they have to be shipped again.

I think low 300's is ok to swallow for 10 pieces. Works out to around $30 a piece right? Can't beat it even with ebay. Though I'm not sure if I can use all 10 pieces though.

Did you get your shipment yet? I do want to know how much lower it hangs compared to stock.

Its a good mod cause the girlfriend can't see it.

[fredricktsang]

If they turn out to be ok, group buy?!?!! :p