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-   -   CTS-V Brake Swap (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f12/cts-v-brake-swap-208626/)

MunkieJunkie 01-30-2017 03:22 PM

CTS-V Brake Swap
 
1 Attachment(s)
So I've seen that a bunch of different platforms can do a CTS-V brake swap fairly easy, and its a very good bang for your buck than just about any other brake mod.


Does anyone know if this is possible on an MS3? Obviously it wouldn't be a straight plug and play mod, but maybe with a little bracket fabrication it would be possible.

BobtailedSnail 01-30-2017 03:36 PM

I'd like to see where this goes even for a 6, since I'm putting MZ6 rear calipers on mine.

ryguy 3 01-30-2017 03:41 PM

Did you message the company that makes the brackets for the subaru?

ctsvbrakeswap@outlook.com

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MunkieJunkie 01-31-2017 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryguy 3 (Post 3103760)
Did you message the company that makes the brackets for the subaru?

ctsvbrakeswap@outlook.com

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I'll email them right now

Nailedit187 01-31-2017 12:16 PM

I so would!

MoMS3 01-31-2017 12:32 PM

I'd be interested as well...perhaps get a group buy in order to help convince these guys to design one for Mazdaspeeds? I would imagine there is interest in the FoST community too (I'm assuming the same setup would work for both focus and MS3?)

MunkieJunkie 01-31-2017 12:55 PM

Just hang tight guys, I emailed them and waiting on a response.

Djohns 02-01-2017 08:20 AM

Would be a good option, anyone know how small of a wheel you can run with these?

WetzMS3 02-01-2017 08:31 AM

Why?

I don't really know anything about the brake setup you are referencing, but why? What is the benefit?

Djohns 02-01-2017 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 (Post 3103954)
Why?

I don't really know anything about the brake setup you are referencing, but why? What is the benefit?

Would be a decent option for those who need/want big brakes. I believe they are a 4 piston design, and can be had for relatively cheap compared to other big brake kits.

MunkieJunkie 02-01-2017 08:39 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 (Post 3103954)
Why?

I don't really know anything about the brake setup you are referencing, but why? What is the benefit?

It would essentially be a BBK for cheap. But a BBK is beneficial for many reasons, and based off the picture alone you can see the differences.

MoMS3 02-01-2017 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MunkieJunkie (Post 3103956)
It would essentially be a BBK for cheap. But a BBK is beneficial for many reasons, and based off the picture alone you can see the differences.

Keep in mind our rotors are 12.6" from factory and the CTS-V calipers from what I can tell get used with 12.75", so basically not a huge difference there (someone else can do the math to figure out the difference in surface area). The big difference for us is in the unsprung weight, as the stock caliper is ~20lbs I believe and these CTS-V's are about 9lbs per side.

The fact these calipers can be had for $150 new for a brembo 4pot is icing on the cake. Now to see if they've got any interest in "braking" into the Mazdaspeed/FoST market...crossing all my fingers and toes

impossible 02-01-2017 05:30 PM

Already contacted the ctsvbrakeswap.com in June 2016 about it and they never replied.

Vansquish 02-01-2017 08:21 PM

For what it's worth, we'd have to run different rotors than what was OE for the CTS-V. The OE CTS-V rotors are 5x120, and ours are obviously 5x114.3. Furthermore, we would likely run into clearance issues with the calipers much like what the few EVO Brembo swappers have discovered.

impossible 02-01-2017 09:24 PM

No. Visit ctsvbrakeswap.com and you'll see all those supported platforms with brackets available are 5x114.3 aside from the older WRX's which were 5x100 :)

MoMS3 02-01-2017 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vansquish (Post 3104031)
For what it's worth, we'd have to run different rotors than what was OE for the CTS-V. The OE CTS-V rotors are 5x120, and ours are obviously 5x114.3. Furthermore, we would likely run into clearance issues with the calipers much like what the few EVO Brembo swappers have discovered.

They are running 350z track pkg on nissans and sti rotors on the subies, just need to figure out what works with these...we'd just need to figure out a 5x114.3 rotor that has the proper dimensions. But I didn't think of clearance issues...wonder if calipers off of the Focus RS would be able to be adapted to our platform since they work for FoST

impossible 02-01-2017 09:27 PM

misread your comment

MoMS3 02-01-2017 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by impossible (Post 3104036)
misread your comment

I was about to say no shit, Mr knows-every-lug-pattern-off-the-top-of-their-head haha

Mazdazilla6 02-02-2017 04:36 AM

I think the Focus RS brakes would be a killer upgrade for the ms3 if they bolt up properly. Looks like the calipers are ~$180ea, rotors are $80 each and pads are $135ish. If that's a bolt on affair I wouldn't even think twice about it.

GroceryGtr 02-02-2017 05:30 AM

You aren't going to pick up much on the surface area side, but you'd see a clear increase in clamp strength(possibly a reduction in fade scenerios). My concerns would be loss of modulation(you can certainly overbrake a car) and bias changes with the rear brakes. Part of the benefit of a bbk is knowing it was designed with the aforementioned aspects in mind, well with a quality kits anyways. Unsprung weight reduction is great, but lets be practical here; 90% of people would never notice the difference. Hell outside of a competition track setup I doubt anyone has ever said "Gee I really notice the reduced unsprung weight you have on yours vs. mine". I'm being facetious/douchey, but my point is valid.

MunkieJunkie 02-02-2017 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroceryGtr (Post 3104050)
You aren't going to pick up much on the surface area side, but you'd see a clear increase in clamp strength(possibly a reduction in fade scenerios). My concerns would be loss of modulation(you can certainly overbrake a car) and bias changes with the rear brakes. Part of the benefit of a bbk is knowing it was designed with the aforementioned aspects in mind, well with a quality kits anyways. Unsprung weight reduction is great, but lets be practical here; 90% of people would never notice the difference. Hell outside of a competition track setup I doubt anyone has ever said "Gee I really notice the reduced unsprung weight you have on yours vs. mine". I'm being facetious/douchey, but my point is valid.

Agreed, for the daily driver application this would be 99% aesthetic. It'd be beneficial for those of us that track/autox our cars, though.

Vansquish 02-02-2017 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by impossible (Post 3104034)
No. Visit ctsvbrakeswap.com and you'll see all those supported platforms with brackets available are 5x114.3 aside from the older WRX's which were 5x100 :)

The supported platforms may be, but the CTS-V brake rotors are still 5x120. We'd need some other rotor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 (Post 3104048)
I think the Focus RS brakes would be a killer upgrade for the ms3 if they bolt up properly. Looks like the calipers are ~$180ea, rotors are $80 each and pads are $135ish. If that's a bolt on affair I wouldn't even think twice about it.

Focus RS rotors are 5x108. We'd need a different solution for rotors even if the calipers are a "bolt on".

ryguy 3 02-02-2017 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vansquish (Post 3104054)
The supported platforms may be, but the CTS-V brake rotors are still 5x120. We'd need some other rotor.



Focus RS rotors are 5x108. We'd need a different solution for rotors even if the calipers are a "bolt on".

Why not just use the STI rotors if they are 5x114.3? If this does go thru the custom caliper bracket could compensate for any minor difference in the rotor hat.


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BobtailedSnail 02-02-2017 06:41 AM

Are these V1 or V2 calipers we talking about?

MunkieJunkie 02-02-2017 07:07 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by BobtailedSnail (Post 3104081)
Are these V1 or V2 calipers we talking about?

Personal preference really, depending on how much you want to spend. I've seen people swap the regular CTS calipers all the way up to the CTS-V 6 piston.

Voltwings 02-02-2017 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroceryGtr (Post 3104050)
You aren't going to pick up much on the surface area side, but you'd see a clear increase in clamp strength(possibly a reduction in fade scenerios). My concerns would be loss of modulation(you can certainly overbrake a car) and bias changes with the rear brakes. Part of the benefit of a bbk is knowing it was designed with the aforementioned aspects in mind, well with a quality kits anyways. Unsprung weight reduction is great, but lets be practical here; 90% of people would never notice the difference. Hell outside of a competition track setup I doubt anyone has ever said "Gee I really notice the reduced unsprung weight you have on yours vs. mine". I'm being facetious/douchey, but my point is valid.

Not sure i agree with this. Hydraulic force = Hydraulic pressure x area. Since the master cylinder is the same, the pressure part is constant, and the only change would be piston surface area.

It's slow at work, so i did some googling, and it looks like the CTS-v calipers have a surface area of 5554 sq mm. That works out to a single piston with a radius of 42mm, or 1.6". I am fairly certain the MS3 single piston is larger than 2.2" across (cant find the spec), so i am not sure there will really be any increase in clamping force. At least, not any appreciable increase.

Fixed calipers will help with brake fade and caliper flex, but they really do not increase brake "strength."

Djohns 02-02-2017 08:24 AM

Not to derail the subject here but what about ats v calipers?

MoMS3 02-02-2017 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djohns (Post 3104108)
Not to derail the subject here but what about ats v calipers?

They use those with one of their Subaru kits.

MoMS3 02-02-2017 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vansquish (Post 3104054)
The supported platforms may be, but the CTS-V brake rotors are still 5x120. We'd need some other rotor.

Focus RS rotors are 5x108. We'd need a different solution for rotors even if the calipers are a "bolt on".

Donny you're out of your element! Dude, the rotors are not the issue here...

Rotors are the easy part. Just need to find another platform's rotors which have the proper offset and whatnot (e.g. STI). We would probably have a wider range of choices for pads (potentially cheaper due to more on the market as well) with a 4-pot vs our oddball calipers. Plus changing pads out on a fixed caliper is generally much quicker in my experience.

Voltwings 02-02-2017 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoMS3 (Post 3104114)
Donny you're out of your element! Dude, the rotors are not the issue here...

Rotors are the easy part. Just need to find another platform's rotors which have the proper offset and whatnot (e.g. STI). We would probably have a wider range of choices for pads (potentially cheaper due to more on the market as well) with a 4-pot vs our oddball calipers. Plus changing pads out on a fixed caliper is generally much quicker in my experience.

Why offset the rotor? I keep seeing everyone say this, if we're having to machine an adapter anyways, offset the frikkin caliper to work with stock rotors...

MoMS3 02-02-2017 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltwings (Post 3104117)
Why offset the rotor? I keep seeing everyone say this, if we're having to machine an adapter anyways, offset the frikkin caliper to work with stock rotors...

Sorry I'm being unclear, I meant that we need to find a rotor in our lug pattern that has a close enough offset. Ideally we wouldn't need an adapter bracket, which is why I suggested the Focus RS brakes given the possibility that their mounting setup is likely similar to the MS3.

MunkieJunkie 02-02-2017 09:23 AM

UPDATE:

Here's what they replied to my email.

"Do you have a link to a thread on the forum we could take a look at? Or start a thread to gain interest? If there is enough interest we could start looking into making a Mazda kit."


I'll link them this thread, and I'm sure the more people that see this/the more interest we get the higher chance we have of getting a kit made.

sharksinspace 02-02-2017 09:24 AM

I'd be interested in a low cost BBK setup.

Omega 02-02-2017 09:33 AM

I'd also be interested in a low cost BBK setup as well on the 6...

[R]usty 02-02-2017 09:35 AM

I'm 100% interested.

Djohns 02-02-2017 10:16 AM

I wish them the best of luck on this forum we are very unusual people, but I too am interested.

AnimalMother 02-02-2017 10:19 AM

Definitely interested.

Omega 02-02-2017 10:29 AM

It may also be wise to solicit MSO and see if there's interest there.... The more interest from the community as a whole the better chance this will have of coming to fruition.

Djohns 02-02-2017 10:44 AM

I can check with them if OP doesn't have an account. Maybe even the facialbook homos? I don't have a Facebook so someone else would need to check with them.

MunkieJunkie 02-02-2017 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djohns (Post 3104153)
I can check with them if OP doesn't have an account. Maybe even the facialbook homos? I don't have a Facebook so someone else would need to check with them.

Yeah I don't have an account there, you could pop on over and see if there's any interest.


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