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MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Suspension & Brakes Discussion for suspension items like coilovers, springs, sway bars, mounts,chassis bracing and brakes.


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 Old 01-06-2011, 02:13 PM   #1
 
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Default Soft Brakes after Pad/Rotor Install?

I installed front Powerslot Slotted Rotors with HPS Performance Street Brake Pads yesterday. After driving, I feel like the pedal is much softer than before. I have to push the brakes in much further to come to a stop. Is this normal or is there something else I should check/replace?

Also, is there a trick to putting the caliper spring back on? I had a hell of a time putting it back on.


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 Old 01-06-2011, 02:56 PM   #2
 
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Dumb question, but did you bleed the brakes?
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 Old 01-06-2011, 03:01 PM   #3
 
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Dumber question, if you don't release the brake like from the caliper, you wouldn't need to bleed would you? I never have anyways. Make sure that the brake fluid reservoir cap is tight and the level is correct, could be that the pads need to be broken In a bit, bedded into the rotors I believe is the term, look up proper procedure
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 Old 01-06-2011, 08:28 PM   #4
 
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Its the P.O.S. HAWK HPS pads. They are just squishy like that. Trust me on this one. I've been through bleeding and re-bleeding so have many others on here. I plan on going back to stock pads asap. The hps stop well if you stomp the break, but there is nothing like the perfectly crisp feel of the stockers. If anyone knows where to get the stockers for cheap online lmk please.
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 Old 01-06-2011, 09:08 PM   #5

 
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Originally Posted by JNR5005 View Post
Its the P.O.S. HAWK HPS pads. They are just squishy like that. Trust me on this one. I've been through bleeding and re-bleeding so have many others on here. I plan on going back to stock pads asap. The hps stop well if you stomp the break, but there is nothing like the perfectly crisp feel of the stockers. If anyone knows where to get the stockers for cheap online lmk please.
I had the exact same setup for a year and it's not the hawk pads. The pads work great as their popularity can attest to.

The only characteristic of the hawk hps pad to be aware of, is that they require more pedal effort stopping, when they're cold - like first thing in the morning. Once warmed up, they stop on a dime.

I'm guessing it's as someone else mentioned, you haven't bedded in the brakes yet, or did it incorrectly.

Read the bedding in procedure on the hawk box and follow it to a "T"


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 Old 01-06-2011, 09:33 PM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by hnda etr View Post
I had the exact same setup for a year and it's not the hawk pads. The pads work great as their popularity can attest to.

The only characteristic of the hawk hps pad to be aware of, is that they require more pedal effort stopping, when they're cold - like first thing in the morning. Once warmed up, they stop on a dime.

I'm guessing it's as someone else mentioned, you haven't bedded in the brakes yet, or did it incorrectly.

Read the bedding in procedure on the hawk box and follow it to a "T"


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The "requirng more pedal effort" is his problem. AKA squishy pedal. OP; buy the $250 set of oem fronts, that will fix your problem instantly.
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 Old 01-06-2011, 09:47 PM   #7

 
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Originally Posted by JNR5005 View Post
The "requirng more pedal effort" is his problem. AKA squishy pedal. OP; buy the $250 set of oem fronts, that will fix your problem instantly.
I'm betting he didn't follow the bedding in... more pedal effort does not equate to squishy pedal (like when there's air in the line)


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 Old 01-06-2011, 09:49 PM   #8
 
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I did not bleed the brakes as it was my understanding that it was un-needed with just a pad/rotor install. I supported the caliper with a bucket, so there was no stress on the line. I followed the instructions on the pad box fairly closely, within the confines of the traffic that I was driving in.

It was rather cold here when testing (about 30 degrees F) so I am thinking that it just may be the pads warming up. It's not like they are not stopping. I am making 90-100 mile drive tomorrow, so I will get a better feel for them then. I don't think I will be buying new pads any time soon though. I will just wait until these wear out again and I'm sure I will get used to them eventually.
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 Old 01-06-2011, 09:52 PM   #9
 
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You cheaped out and thought aftermarket would be better is the problem. The hawks don't have the same bite and won't until they reach higher temps. The oem are much better, wider temperature range for optmal coeff of frction, and I've heard little issues with them fading. So if you want your pedal feel back go with the oems.
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 Old 01-06-2011, 09:54 PM   #10

 
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Originally Posted by MidwestSpeed3 View Post
I did not bleed the brakes as it was my understanding that it was un-needed with just a pad/rotor install. I supported the caliper with a bucket, so there was no stress on the line. I followed the instructions on the pad box fairly closely, within the confines of the traffic that I was driving in.

It was rather cold here when testing (about 30 degrees F) so I am thinking that it just may be the pads warming up. It's not like they are not stopping. I am making 90-100 mile drive tomorrow, so I will get a better feel for them then. I don't think I will be buying new pads any time soon though. I will just wait until these wear out again and I'm sure I will get used to them eventually.
You're correct, no need to bleed if you didn't remove brake line from caliper...

The cold is definitely going to impact stopping effort - regardless of pad, but possibly more with the hawks...

another thing to consider, is getting stainless steel brake lines... This will also firm up your pedal...

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 Old 01-06-2011, 10:00 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by 86azms3 View Post
You cheaped out and thought aftermarket would be better is the problem. The hawks don't have the same bite and won't until they reach higher temps. The oem are much better, wider temperature range for optmal coeff of frction, and I've heard little issues with them fading. So if you want your pedal feel back go with the oems.
^this is true. HPS do last longer, and dust less, I will say that... but there is no initial bite, and I have had embarrassing noise problems and scary glazing/fading problems lol. I have been on HPS for a while now (2nd set of oems wore out and had these lying around still so I sucked it up), U can get used to it if you really try...but its just a crummy feeling IMO. It just feels more like a grand marquis brake pedal or somthing.
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 Old 01-07-2011, 12:44 AM   #12
 
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i have ebc reds in and i hate the pedal feel. I miss the OE bite.
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 Old 01-07-2011, 05:29 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by JNR5005 View Post
The "requirng more pedal effort" is his problem. AKA squishy pedal. OP; buy the $250 set of oem fronts, that will fix your problem instantly.
No there's definitely a difference between increased braking effort and a soft/squishy brake pedal. The latter usually surfaces when the lines/fluid overheat or there is unsufficient pressure in the lines. In the two MS3's I drove with HPS, the pedal "felt" the same but took increased braking force to stop the car. Not necessarily a bad thing but the progressive behavior is not for everyone (including me).
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 Old 01-07-2011, 05:47 PM   #14
 
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I had my front rotor's turned and Hawk HPS installed and had the same issue with soft brakes and a slight grinding sound. Carried it back to the shop and they call the sound "chatter". Manager said they need to be fine turned or something along that line. Now the HPS grab like the stockers did at much less cost. I'm not sure what they did the 2nd time but it was like night and day, very happy now. They checked the rear and said I had plenty of pad left, so I did not change the rear.
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 Old 01-08-2011, 03:34 PM   #15
 
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People like to rag on the HPS here but I've been using them for ~25K of the 38K miles that are on my car's odometer (I'm on my second front and first rear sets of HPS pads) and to me, they're about perfect for a DD and they perform pretty admirably on track (with good fresh fluid) during the occasional track day, especially considering their cost (the low dust is just a bonus, as far as I'm concerned).

Yes, they give up a bit of initial bite compared to OEM pads, but I really don't believe they give up anything in the areas of longevity, heat resistance, or stopping power. As much as I use my brakes (and as often as I replace them, in kind), I've come to be pretty satisfied with their less-than-OEM price tag and relatively low dust production.

Just wanted to throw out my $.02...
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 Old 03-15-2011, 11:25 AM   #16
 
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Curious, for those doing their own pads/rotors, how many of you are opening the bleeder screw before pushing the caliper piston back into the housing? Seems this could be a $1600 issue if fluid gets pushed back into the ABS control valve.
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 Old 03-15-2011, 11:39 AM   #17

 
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Originally Posted by Design View Post
Curious, for those doing their own pads/rotors, how many of you are opening the bleeder screw before pushing the caliper piston back into the housing? Seems this could be a $1600 issue if fluid gets pushed back into the ABS control valve.
I never do. Though it wouldn't hurt, whenever I am swapping pads I am usually putting fresh fluid in.
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 Old 03-15-2011, 11:47 AM   #18
 
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Yeah even my OEM Pads had to be bedded in. When I got my car back from the dealer they felt a little soft after a brake job but after a few days they where fine.
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Originally Posted by Dash08 View Post
Dude, you have a 2.3 MZR DISI motor.

Worry isn't even a mod, it comes factory installed.
Understeer is hitting the wall with your front end.
Oversteer is hitting the wall with your back end.
Horsepower is how fast you can hit the wall.
Torque is how far you can push that wall after you hit it.
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 Old 03-15-2011, 03:59 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Ziggo View Post
I never do. Though it wouldn't hurt, whenever I am swapping pads I am usually putting fresh fluid in.
I am new to ABS so I am not sure if a failed control valve would cause a mushy pedal. But it's been a hot topic across misc forums where users complain of soft brakes. The article below summarizes the point I'm trying to make:
http://www.cardone.com/english/club/...%2012-0001.pdf
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 Old 03-15-2011, 04:56 PM   #20
 
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hey OP check how you put that spring back in. if you put it in wrong it will give the caliper resistance causing a squishy pedal feeling
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 Old 03-15-2011, 08:46 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by Design View Post
Curious, for those doing their own pads/rotors, how many of you are opening the bleeder screw before pushing the caliper piston back into the housing? Seems this could be a $1600 issue if fluid gets pushed back into the ABS control valve.
I've always just opened the reservoir cap when pushing the pistons back in. I don't fuck around with the bleeders screws unless I'm going to be bleeding the brakes.

I've also never experienced the "mushy pedal" phenomenon, and I've changed my front brake pads twice and my rear pads once.
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 Old 03-16-2011, 06:13 PM   #22
 
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Everyone I know here locally does the same. But my pedal travels downward a little further than I'd like after the OEM pad/rotor install. I opened the reservoir cap and haven't uncorked the lines so I'm confident it's not air in the system. Still holding pressure at the pedal so I don't think it's the master cylinder either. Caliper springs look and feel fine.

I noticed the same feel during FFF's test drive. Probably going to have a pro take a look and will report back.
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