11.32@130.54
 

Welp, mildly successful, but completely infuriating weekend. The short version is I got to make 2 passes with the new setup. First was an epic driver fail and ran a 14.399 with an amazing 2.5 60'...@130.25mph. Second run was much better but then I completely blew the head gasket and burned all my coolant out the exhaust at the 1000' mark or so. Even with all the fail the car managed a 11.32@130.54 on that pass. Super pissed that it couldn't just stay together the whole run though cuz a 10.9x @135 was in the bag, I just had to ride it out, but nooooo the head didn't wanna stay on yet again.

Slips and in-car video below. I'll post videos from outside once I get them. The outside videos are pretty good.

Won't have a chance to assess the damage for a week at least and no idea yet what's plans are moving forward. I'm out of play money after doing two full builds this year and I'm just done building it KNOWING where the week spots are and not being able to do anything about it. Oh well.


http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/y...EF19415A7F.jpg



http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/y...5265C18B40.jpg

needz new camera mod.

It's a piece of shit iPhone on a $10 ebay phone mount on the dash lol. I think it did just fine.

I'd say you lost both runs... pretty badly. :)

Think for an iPhone it did just fine, your dump tube is great.

thanks obama

Wow! Congrats man. Soooo close, we have so many just on the edge! Someone will hit it. SOOON!

So how many times have you lifted your head now?

At least a milliondy-three or so.

Or maybe 6

thats a decent pass , especially for a second pass on a new set up . i assume u have the usual 26 by 8.5 x 15 m and h etc etc ??? u gonna need more than 135 to make up that front half time though ..... if u can muster a 1.81 sixty early on im sure u can get at least mid 1.7s with some work . the back half doesnt make up time in the same manner u would expect . great start ....how long til u back up and trying again ?

Yeah this was my 5th pass ever but I can tell you it is worlds easier to run a solid time with thid transmission. I bogged pretty bad on the 1.81 so I would have definitely had a solid 1.7x if I git another pass in. And yeah im on the stamdard 26x8.5's for now.

Im hoping to have all the chsnges and rebuild done by spring when the trakcs open around here but a lot will depend on what damage I end up finding and whetjer or not I can get the parts together for an engine that I will actually be comfortable with putting a lot of power to again. Im way beyond tired of dealomg with this type of bullshit when not even making crazy numbers.

its always best to either have a spotter or someone video u close enough on the side of the car to see the launch, tire rotation, nose and the second gear reaction .... with that info u can tell what the car needs to get the proper momentum out of the hole .


keep posting ...wish u fuckers would have more passes between fails though lol

I actually had a couple people video which I'm trying to get from them and I definitely wanted to use what I saw in them to get better on my next runs...but in the end yes I fail far far too often so now I wait :(

Also forgot to add to the op I ended up hitting ~20psi in 1st and 28-29 in second. 1st could have used aite more and 2nd likely could have used all 36psi.

Do you really think you won't spin too much in 2nd @ 36psi? Yes even on slicks.

With this gearing, yes, with stock gearing I would blow away 2nd with that much power unless the track prep is amazing. Gotta remember I looking at 85+ mph in second with this gearing so it's really a whole different car on the track.

howvis the 1st gear gearing vs stock gen 1 tranny ?

I only get like 6-8mph more but it still helps some from what I can tell. I'm working on a couple gearing tweaks I think will really suit the car perfectly now that I've gotten a couple runs and have some datalogs. I just hope I can get an engine together to really compete next year, because I feel very confident in the rest of the setup.

Good stuff, amazed it did 1.8 on the 2nd run the way it bogged, lots of potential..just weld the fucking head on and be done.

Yep, so I have very little actual in-car experience drag racing, but from watching tons of guys here on MSF and reading a lot of tips from guys like @rodrigo; and @Darksun280; I think the biggest reason most people have 60ft problems is because they end up shifting to 2nd before the 60ft cone. I think that's probably where the most time is lost, not carrying out first gear far enough. Luckily with this gearing, I get probably an extra 10ft out of first gear, so I was able to get well past the 60' while still pulling through first gear.

There's still obviously a ton of improvements I can and will be making, but yeah as far as the head goes, I will literally be swapping motors if I can't find a way to keep the head gasket happy this winter. I'm still holding out hope on a couple ideas I've got bouncing around though, so not giving up quite yet.

You are a hot mess where do I begin

1.81 is acceptable for now untill you get more comfortable

3.2 seconds to get into 2nd gear is terrible. You gonna have to get the timing down to snatch 2nd faster. you killing the momentum of the car. turbo probably falling all out of boost on your shift lol/ That .2 -.3 tenths you are loosing down low is really hurtling your E.T

How dare you pic up 33 in the back half but only trap 97 to the 8th. You should be doing 101-103 to the 8th. That means you got no momentum for the start of the race. You not getting that sling shot effect. a snappier 1-2 shift or more tire or less weight probably need one or the other.

I showed this vid to ant but you need to see it too. Video your self banging a 1-2 and there compare it to raif.

Lol. I would expect nothing less from you in the criticism department, and that's what I like.

I couple things in my defense. As far as the 1-2 shift goes, I could definitely use work, but there are two things that were working against me on this run that I couldn't control.

1. As much as I do love this gearing and think it makes it considerably easier to run a faster time than using the GEN1/ 6 gearing, it's not a close ratio trans at all. If I had a little more rpm to use in 1st, it would help me hit 2nd gear at a more reasonable rpm. Right now, I drop from 7800 at the top of first to just 4100 grabbing 2nd, just from the gearing.

2. Being my first time with the WOT box at the track, I really think the Ignition cut time is a little too long because there is a distinct delay from the time I grab the next gear to the time the car picks back up again. I'm not talking turbo lag either, it feels different, more like the old post-shift stutter type issue. I previously had the WOT box on Auto which cut for up to 350ms, but I had lowered it to 175ms for the track. I feel like it helped some, but could still bring it down even more.

As for the 1/8 at only 97, that's a product of me running too low of boost in 1st and 2nd gear, having a slow 1-2 shift, and not really getting back into power due to gearing until 95-100mph in 3rd. Again, the gearing is great but there are still some slight trade offs.

Lastly, with the speed on the back half, I should have easily picked up near 40mph on the back half, but after looking at the logs, I really lost all power just before 7k rpm which is where I'm right before peak power normally. I mean shit, I picked up 47mph on the back half in the first garbage run haha. On this run, I really should have been banging rev limiter in 3rd through the traps at ~136 but I had to bring the fail at the end of the track.

With all that said, keep bringin the criticisms and ideas on how to get faster, so I can show you DSM's what's up at the Shootout next year :)

EDIT: I fully plan on the car getting more tire and less weight for next year, so anyone with suggestions for the tire or areas for weight savings, please let me know.

I gotta be rough on you dudes. I've been there. You got way more car than the goals you are reaching for. And I promise you the moment you finally put everything together and then start running 10.9 then 10.7's and then low 10's with the same car your dicking around in now you're gonna look back and say to yourself "WTF was my dumbass doing that whole time when i was running 11's" lol

by the way I'm not a fan of limiting boost in 1st gear anymore. You gotta cut fenders, extend studs and add more tire lolol

While I understand the concept of why run only 3 gears at the track you stated it best when you said 1st 7800 to 2nd 4100 .... If you short shift it as my extremely dark friend suggests you will end up bogging 2nd gear .... This is where a spotter earns his keep and watches your nose behave. When we were dialing in Julios car His first pass he went into second at 6800 .... I saw the nose drop which meant forward momentum was accompanied by downward momentum aka not enough forward aka not enough rpm into second .... We went up 7100 and the second pass his 330' cleaned up nicely .


With that said (and im just trying to give you advice and for U to step back and look at the larger picture) observe this in car of the tach

Launches 6700 or so ... Spin jumps to 7100 and when the tires grab it drops to 4100 ... Pulls steady (no spin) up to 7-7100 shift and drops into 6k + second gear .... THATS why Julio not only has great sixty foots but also killer 330 and 660 considering he only had 94 mph to play with . The point of this is that Julio (and Nishan can chime in ) purposely had a very broad powerband by design (even though technically only real power used was between 5500 and 7200 rpm other than the initial 4100 rpm pull when tires grab ) And in your case I would imagine your "meat" I'd much narrower hence making long ass gears not very efficient for keeping the car always at a narrow band of power .... But I do understand that it's easier to just pull in one long ass gear to not have to shift ... And that's great for 100-135 mph pull where horsepower is what gets you there , but at the lower speeds ... Torque and momentum is what gets you those precious tenths that no trap can ever make up.


I'm not knocking on your choices , to me what u have is what u have ... Anything can be made more efficient by driving and attention to detail . That near 4k RPM discrepancy between the top of first and bottom of 2nd is going to be challenging to get decent 330ft times . Either way post up all you do it's always fun trying to figure out how to drive a different set up efficiently

I completely agree with everything you said. The only thing I'll say is my TQ/Power band is actually probably the largest of any DISI in existence. I made within 20wtq of peak (~485) from 4500-7800rpm which in 3rd gear is over 60mph of flat Tq with no shifting... With that said, that's the only thing that saved me with this gearing, was that giant tq curve.

It's definitely a give and take, but I'm happy I'm trying something new and I know 100% I would have never been able to cut this type of time with stock GEN1 gearing, no way in hell. There's a chance with about 50 runs I could have dialed it in enough to get close, but that's it.

As for the launch I had blown off the tires in 1st on run #1 so I was super conservative on run 2 and it bit me in the ass. I launched at 5800 off of the shortest 2-step ever so the log showed I only made 1.5psi on the launch. That's why I bogged so bad, I dead hooked and didn't spin at all.

Can't wait to make some tweaks and get out a lot more next year. I've got the itch to learn to drive this car better and better at the track, I just need to put a motor together that will handle it.

i wouldnt know anything about boost at launch lol .... we dont use lc ...just engine speed to carry wheelspeed as the boost builds naturally .... i think 1st was 20 psi and second 23-24 ..... tire spin and less load in the shorter gears takes away any real boost so the less bullshit IMO the better to make clean passes .... that does not mean we couldnt have run better with LC ... i simply dont believe so .... i had a deal with Nishan ... let me make 3 passes with zero nannies , no lc, no ffs, no boost by gear and if i cant cut the time i told him we would then we would try the electronic wizardry ....building boost at launch IMO serves no purpose when traction is your biggest enemy .... carrying wheel speed out of the hole without excessive spinning (no more than 1-1.5 rotation of tire ) serves the 60s best ..... when the advancements in suspension and traction aids surface THEN that is when building boost off the line will serve its intended purpose .... like in high hp big tire guys that can cut low 60s .....


best advice i can give u is this .... try everything 10 times .... see what works best for YOUR set up .... and in my experience the BIGGEST reason why guys are slow will always be the same ...ego

would be cool to see some side videos of the car going down the track along with some Tach videos or a log .... i love watching this type of shit to see how much room there is to improve and ultimately make a killer pass

Preach!

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/tu...mfnio1_500.gif

Nice!!


Cant wait to get my genone one out once the tune is dialed in! Im in need of a lot of seat time tho

i have only seen 1 person successfully use LC and that was David (mzrdave)... and that is from not having enough power to defeat the traction of the tire and cutting the best 60fts to date on ms3 ... 1.688 and 1.69s ..... which were def better than the 1.71-1.72 we could cut on julios .... but genpu vs gen 1 .... and we didnt have bags so i do feel davids car was better set up ..... shame hes out of it along with julio .

would love to see consistent mid 1.7s out of these BT guys to at least get decently clean passes ....and eventually 1.6s when more progress is made

That's all well and good but it requires one of the cars to be up long enough for the driver to practice enough to get consistent with the car.

Good times though, good luck with the (re-re-)rebuild.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

You didn't use copper spray on ur headgasket did u?

Nope

The copper spray is more of a fluid barrier than anything. It fills in any surface imperfections but won't help with cylinder sealing. Not much it can do to prevent the head from lifting.

No I was saying cause he said he blew the head gasket. Everyone I seen use copper spray on a head gasket blew it.

So I was curious if he happened to use it. I know some evo shops in my area use it and same shit happened.



Didn't realize he lifted the head? Thought just head gasket. Or both?

Won't know for sure till I get the head off. I'll finally have some time tonight to look at it, but probably won't get very far. Likely won't have the head off till next week sometime.

I hope its something stupid and simple.

I used to build and work with a lot of ford zetec and duratec engines back in the day and we would see mls head gasket issues due to the fact most machine shops can't get the surface finish to the recomended 30 RA or smoother.

Here is some good reading.

Resurfacing Cylinder Heads & Blocks? Mistakes to Avoid


It was long recomended to coat an mls gasket with a very light coating of copper spray to help ensure proper sealing when the correct smoothness of the surface could not be obtained. I have never personally seen an issue with using the copper spray on mls gaskets when you apply a smooth light coat. I have had issues with failed gaskets on engines using arp studs where the studs were not retorqued after a few heat cycles.

If you can find a machine shop who can lap the surface of the block and the head after machining for flatness that is the best way imo.

But at the very least you need to let your machine shop know what surface finish you need and if they can't do it then you should find another shop.

When I do my engine build I will be getting the surfaces lapped and checked and make sure to have a finish of 20-30 RA

Great job on getting out there and pushing the platform. Learning a lot from you guys, and the only thing that I can help you with is the WOT box. I run mine at 50ms, and I worked doen to that from 150ms at 50 ms increments. The only thing that I will warn you about running it at 50ms is, it is not forgiving of mistakes.

thread jack time .... can we tune that with either sct or hpt ??? i ask because shaun @ AED does something on my drag race tune to mimic rpms holding between wot shifts but he wont say what he actually does (gonna jump to hpt real soon)

That I don't know, but I would think that you could if you tuned it off of the tps signal and the clutch switch signal.

I am actually going to give AED a try this winter. I want to compare his tune to my local tuner.

My MT82 is getting sent out to RevAuto to get built this winter, then I will be power shifting without the WOT box. I think that the WOT box is causing timing to be pulled between shifts, but it worth it for now. My MT82 has been beat on and is still working flawlessly, but I don't want to push my luck too hard :)

Sorry for the thread jack.

OP updated with the first video from outside the car and the picture I got last night of a giant puddle of water on my pistons.

what rpm u launch it at ??? its hard to tell on my phone but i dont see much rotation at all out of the hole which is why it looks a little soft .... but 1.815 sixty foot is def a great way to start ...too bad it took a shit after that ..woulda been nice to add another 250 rpm to that launch and then another 250 see how it changed

I was only at 5800 and it felt like it just dead hooked, then bogged. Log tells the same story really.

I spun bad on my first run, so I was just too low on this run. I think 6200 on boost or 6500+ with no boost outa the hole would be money.

"dead hooking" as you guys call it is always followed by a bog or the cars front end lifting up in the air (rwd) (either case the nose moves down or up and not forward only which is not optimal) .... the best 60s will always be those that have 1-1.5 max tire rotation to minimize tirespin yet keep the engine climbing in RPM at a steady rate without it decelerating from the extra load.


what is the best recipe ? it can vary so much from track to track and day to day that you have to do enough homework yourself to see what works