I Failed Miserably
 

So I finally got to go to the track with the ole girl, and I fucking failed miserably. I have no doubt, however, that my car is a fuckin' 11 second car in the right hands.

Things I was disappointed with:

1. My 60'
2. My ET (kinda tied to the 60', ya know?)
3. My missed shifts... FML
4. My trap speed
5. The videos that were taken (none of them are even worth posting)
6. The fact that I forgot my laptop, so I couldn't make any adjustments to my tune

Things I was ok with:

1. My burnouts... Towards the end, I had some nice smokey burnouts
2. My shifting when I wasn't missing gears
3. My stock clutch held like a champ. No slipping
4. I didn't blow up
5. I'm running 27ish psi and hella timing, and I didn't get any knock
6. My car felt fucking awesome once I got out of first

I say all that to say this:

I didn't get 11s. I ran mid 12s sorta kinda consistently when I wasn't missing shifts.

I couldn't get my 60' below a 2.0. That was killing me. I think I need to raise my LC settings, but I couldn't do it at the track because I forgot my laptop. I'm a fucking tard.

My best run of the night was a 2.03 60', 118 mph trap, and a 12.5. Fairly mediocre.

I'd love to post vids, but, as I mentioned previously, none of them are worth posting.

http://184.72.239.143/mu/aefe008f-6583-8462.jpg

http://184.72.239.143/mu/aefe008f-6595-4c4b.jpg

http://184.72.239.143/mu/aefe008f-65a3-e554.jpg

Give it time. You just got that tune, so it'll take some time to get used to it and learn to harness all that power.

60' times for an MS3 will always be tough to improve on, too. Especially with big power.

One or two more times at the track and you should be at least in the very low 12s. But that is some very good mph!!! That thing will fly from a roll!!!! Does it feel like each gear the car pull harder the the last one and never lets up?? Good run buddy. When are you going to try it again?

Thanks man... I can't help but be a little bit disappointed, but such is life.

It felt so fucking good man. I raced a mustang in one of those, and he got like a 1.8 60', but by 3rd gear, I passed his ass.

I'm hoping to get to a "local" (about 3 hours away) track sometime next month. We'll see. I think I want to do some suspension work first.

Edit:

http://youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily....disappoint.gif

Do you shift at redline or do you feel the power taper before then?
What were you launching at.
May be a newb? But does AP LC cut ignition to build boost?
Were you dumping clutch at line?

Burn outs are easy in a waterbox :)

I was shifting around 6300. That's where we saw my power taper on the dyno.

I was launching at 4500

Yes sir... I need mine to be higher

I did on my last run (the 12.6), but on the others, I slipped until I felt forward momentum, and then I let it out all the way.

Yeah, but amazingly, my first two sucked... No smoke. I had to shift into second to get enough heat.

Edit: My first time up to the line, I had all sorts of jitters, so I accidentally put the car into reverse while I was in the water box... It was an experience... They laughed at me...

I've only dragged this car with hockey pucks but, I'm pretty sure everyone says to dump the clutch with slicks.
Did you stay in first till 6k or shift when you started rolling?

Well done Joel. You'll get the hang of it once you're used to it.

I actually got traction, so I was shifting at 6300 like all the other gears. I got mad spark blowout from 5-6k though, so it just drained my power. I didn't realize what was happening until my last run, but it was too late by then.

Not to shabby for ur 1st time out with the car in its latest setup, just a lil practice and u will be in the 11's..... fo show :)

Yeah, don't be disappointed that you didn't cut an 11 sec 1/4 your first time out drag racing a high-hp fwd car with a big turbo that you had to launch at 4500 rpm.

That shit is difficult and what I find more impressive is how your clutch and engine held up. I'm looking forwards to some more dyno sheets when you get to sea level, and then some timeslips once you get your setup sorted out.

Even though you're claiming fail, this is still win in terms of us finding out the potential of our engines and drivetrains.

haha what was running a 2.7 sec 60' and 18's?

trapping 118 is impressive, if you can get that 60' down you will be mid 11s. Nice work. The power is there, give it a few more times.
I imagine you are running some sort of drag radial? Are you getting tire spin on the launch?

That was probably dustin hahaha...

I was running Hoosier Quick Time Pros... I was actually bogging on launch. They're sticky mofos. I need to up my LC

Nice man. Dump that clutch next time. The slicks will absorb the shock. What psi in the tires?

The track is a totally different experience than the street, as im sure you found out. Its easy to get the hitters when you are on the spot. It took me 20+ passes to get a 13.5 on street tires :smokin:

What gear are you in when you hit the traps?

We started the night at 15 psi, but by the end we were down to 11 psi and my 60' hadn't improved at all...

That's why I'm thinking that either

A) I just suck that much
B) I need to up my LC

I honestly think it's a combination of the two though...

Edit: I lied... We only took them down to 12 psi

what was you're LC at anyway. Most people try like mid 4k and get owned. I say 5k minimum. When you get a good lunch its gonna feel like your spinning and sloshy but your actually covering good ground.

You hit it dead one, mighty dark one. Dustin and I had it set at 4500

We need to go to the track when u get back. That way I can coach u. Lol

That's a decent 60 but a 1.8 can definitely be done I've seen it on skeet tires in an ms3. You actually need to lower your launch control as it is probably fucking your launch. Maybe even remove the LC and launch without it. I know it sounds gay. Launch control with the AP really sucks and it caused me to bog alot also when I was running the 12.8s or whatever I ran.

Give it a few more tries at a local ish track ( i guess kc). And I u cant get it lower I'll take a stab at it haha:07::07:

That's an interesting idea... I wanna go to KC whenever their track opens and see what I can do.

If I had my laptop, I could have experimented a little bit, but I'm a fucking dumbass... I'll definitely let you track her a couple times though.

im gonna saying if they are hooking that hard 5300 is going to be a sweet spot.

Yeah mang... I'm gonna try that next. I was gonna up it to 5k, but I'll go ahead and up it to 5300

Ill preface by saying I have no experience with this car or FWD at the track
But if you are bogging off the line, and running 12psi in your tires id say thats part of it.
I also dont have experience with those particular radials either.
But if you arent spinning, and are bogging down..id raise the PSI in the tires. Id keep filling them until you start spinning off the line. That will help eliminate your bogging issue and improve on trap MPH. You may pick up a mph or two. Now if you were spinning at 15psi or 12 psi..that would be a different story.
If you just keep raises your launch RPM you are running out of gear and hp at the top of the RPM range. And you are also going to have more chance of clutch slip before it locks up good.

But thats my opinion...

On a side note in regards to launching at 4500rpm...has anyone ever broke front axles on these cars?

Remember even if they FEEL like they are spinning just stick to the plan and ride things out, bang those gears.

U need to slip the clutch using launch control don't just drop it.. Every time I would drop at that high, I would bog and end up short shifting or missing a gear.

Depends actually. You bog if there is too much traction or you launched too low so if your gonna dump the clutch make sure you have a high rev limit. If your gonna slip 43-4800 is fine.

Lc isnt gonna work the same every day every track. amb temps, tire temps, track prep all play part on launch. The best tool is you. I have never been able to duplicate what my brain to feet work can do with lc.

My suggestion. Huge 2nd gear burnout, 11psi in tires, launch the shit out of that bitch at like 5500 and bang those gears. Do not for any reason slip the fucking clutch man. Shitty 60s and fucked clutch will shortly follow a slipping off the line.

You will get many many different suggestion but only you can make it work. Ive bar far put the best 60fts down in this car and hope that has some weight, but take what everyone says with a grain of salt. Just go out there and learn for yourself. All cars and tracks are different and no one way is gonna stand true every time. Good luck pimpin. I have to wait 5 weeks now so i hope someone gets it before me, I really do. I dont plan on going out there an fucking around LOL

You need a 2-step to really have control over launching the AP fails with its LC.

I will give it a shot at the track! for sure.

if you have a vid of your 12.5 run, i want to see it.

12.9. @ 113 not bad either for a novice as 95% of us on here are.
Let's get a coach with better times ex: Driver. 12.5 on stock turbo compared to any 12 on big turbo owns all.

I'm proud of u Joel. Everyone is gonna hate, screw em ur car is the fastest MS3 ON THIS FORUM AND THE WORLD they're just jealous my friend. Thanks for the attempt man you'll get it soon it's truly inevitable

joel, the ONLY thing u failed at was being realistic with your expectations.

its funny cuz anthony calls me up yesterday and hes asking me if u hit 11s lol....im like.."niggah, this ginger will come back with a 12.6 at high teens mph"....

your car is def gonna run 11s....but it will take a few outings for u to chop a few tenths off the 60'....a couple of tenths off the shifting...and it will happen.....just be realistic.....how could anyone that hasnt drag raced this car possibly have done much better?


congrats, u did a great job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's ok to groan me Brian 12.9 is pretty fail on big turbo I'll post my 12s on stock turbo when the time comes let ya know how it's done:)

+1 for practice and getting used to the "new" car

I've accomplished more in 5 measly track runs than u ever will with your ms3...I'm definitely not on the "novice" level with you as you put it.

His car is way faster than mine ever was to begin with. It's definitly in the 11 second range and I have a few ideas for him for the next time he goes to the track tO help him hit that goal.

You can't compare a stock turbo to a big turbo at the track. It's a lot easier to drive a slow fully bolted car than it is to drive a 400 + hp car. Get a little experience under your belt and then talk to me about fail.

What track was this?

Even though you didn't hit 11's it's nice to see the those trap speeds. LOL at 17.91 @ 92.18 mph (and a 2.8 60') in the second pic.

I'm not gonna compare dick sizes here u no longer own an MS3 so ur input is no longer valid for me. I ran a 13.7 with intake and ghetto ass Falkens. 12s will be cake when the time comes if it ever does. My car will be an autoX car this spring/summer not trying to make my fail wheel drive a drag car really wasn't ever what this car was meant for obviously.

Ya need to get the stick outta your ass don't even know why u became such a hater towards me. To each his own:chairshot: This is Joels thread I'll debate no longer. Sorry Joel you'll get 11s within time big ups for all you've done and will continue to do for this platform

You are the one who started this dude you bring it upon yourself. I don't own an ms3 you are right. But just because you stop going to school it doesn't mean you didnt learn anything while you were there. Your reasoning is way off dude.

Congrats Joel! You did really well for your first runs. I had the same issue with the misfires at the track. I was running the same tune for a week prior to the track with no issues. Almost every run I has I would misfire at mid to high range rpms. I'm looking for an ignition amp to help smooth that out. You should jump on one asap.

I stretch my springs every time I go to the track. Seems to help alot. Ive yet to get any cut on this new motor.

Yeah man... dustin and I have some ideas about the shit. I think I'm gonna try the kenne bell bas.

We'll see what happens.

did you....FLAT FOOOOT!?

You gotta double clutch

Yeah he already said he was granny shifting

On a couple runs I flat footed. On others, I granny shifted.

Vin diesel taught me the way, but no one races the way he does

/ in b4 the post of the thread


look at the positive in life joel, at least this time u didnt stick your tongue in some dude's mouth.

Fixed to reflect actual events.

He is learning and needs more time behind the wheel drag racing.

I do question the prep on that track. It was windy, moist and cold. I think he would of gotten damn near a 12.0 once we got the tire pressure down lower.

We didnt have an airtank, so we had to creep down in PSI. I think he will start with 12 psi next time out the gate. I told him to fuck his LC, but Joel doesn't like every time he is coached. He will learn eventually :)

good shit joel, 118 is nothing to be disappointed about esp if you managed it with the rest of your fail haha.


lenny u need to take some launch advice from this mofo and stop cleaning out the MS3 after market of clutches haha

isnt 118 the fast trap speed of any ms3 yet?

He would of trapped 119 last night, i know it.

I think socks did 119mph with nitrous.

Woulda coulda

You are just a Ray of sunshine and a source of encouragement aren't you

what about RR?


hahahahahahahahahahaha

Am I wrong?

beat me to it!!! This is exactly what i would have done it i were bogging that bad (FWD). i also agree that there are other factors that can cause bog. Let me ask you a question how much boost were you launching with? I mean you are two stepping you are putting load on the motor thus allowing you to build boost off the line. So how long did you sit there two stepping before you took off? I am thinking if you are leaving the line with enough boost then your launch should have been NIIIIICCCEEE!!! and definitly not spin. But if you are boosting with somewhere around 10-12 psi off the line and bogging then either your tire are too big, too much grip, to low of air pressure or you were letting out way to fast. Then again on the last one i dont think if you are boosting off the line it is possible...

Just work on it and as i do pay attention to what you are car is doing and what you are doing and alter it as you see fit when on each pass. good luck next time i know you will do it. also did you run with full interior? Did you weigh the car? if so what did it weigh?

you said something about suspension, i believe suspension will help with weight transfer but i wouldn't look at that as the reason for bogging..

i do a data log! @ the track
i bet dollar to doughnuts
your hitting higher load, and going rich causing the blow out!
my car does the same shit, ive seen it go into the 8s afr in first

Congrats man. I have read both of the threads and fuck all the people talking shit or that hidden shit talk. Like good job man BUT. People here at times are just fucken jealous tools. The dude has THE fastest MS3 around, congratulate him and don't be a fucken hater.

Think about all the potential for fail in any department with this car and this guy is putting out tons of fucken power and going for broke.

Commendable in my book and hitting 11's with practice like everyone said will be possible.

Fucken haters on these forums as of late.

Edit: I want to see some videos of this thing pulling from a 40 please...please...lol

Shit I didn't realize that was your first time at the track. I'll see if any of the videos I took are worth posting. The fucking camera wouldn't focus on the time but you can see the launches pretty well.

Joel, lower your tire pressures down to around 9 to 10psi. If I'm not mistaken, you're running the Hoosier. I run those as well, and they don't hook too well, especially when there's too much air in them. I was skeptical running low pressures like that, but the tires will balloon anyway once they are heated up.

Awesome mph. Keep up the good work!

That'd be awesome man! Much appreciated!

Thanks man!

What rpm do you launch at?

Yeah don't do this Joel lol.

He has traction he just needs to find a sweet spot where he can spin alittle bit to fall into the beginning of his power band with out the bog. theres multipul was he can do this which has been suggested in this thread but your suggestion is like telling him to have someone spray VHT on the ground. Dude has traction already.....

you must powaaaaaaaaashift

I was. I didn't see any improvements over the times when I granny shifted though.

Well, that's kind of a lie. My first 12.5 @116 was granny shifting. second 12.5 @ 118 was power shifting

I tell you what to put this debate to rest put about 18 psi in your tires and do a nice smokey burn out to heat the tires up and launch it and see what you do in 2-3 passes and then do it at the suggested air pressure like 8 psi and see which one works for your set up.

This also all plays a part on if they prep the track with enough VHT or is it dry.. crazy question i know this shouldn't be your problem but i have to ask is you are sure that you are taking the traction control off before you run right? Just asking as i have made this mistake plenty of times so it can happen due to your nerves.

FYI i know that lower air pressure is BETTER than more air but the more are you let out the more traction you get. So it he is bogging then raise the pressure or raise the LC. Both to the point where you start spinning and then back it down...SWEET SPOT

Also when you launch your car is your clutch pedal all the way to the floor when you are launching? If so then this might your problem by itself. The reason is the time it take you to lift your foot to engage your clutch your rpms may have dropped drastically thus causing you to bog... a lot of beginners do this as well.

I'm gonna experiment a bit later this month hopefully.

What the fuck is traction control?

I don't even use my clutch. That's what people mean when they say "bang through the gears", right?











Just kidding :)

I won't be getting slicks for a while so in street tires where should I start with psi for the track?

Depending on the tire, full air pressure due to your sidewall being so hard that is not really a big deal if you lower the air or not. Look at your treadwear to see how sticky the tire is. Usually the lower the treadwear the stickier or the softer the compound. But your tires will wear out faster as well even in normal driving..

I'm actually about to get new tires. I'm looking at a set of Nitto NT 555's for both my cars. I'd go to a more high end of Nitto's but they start to look like slicks and not street tires above these.

the nitto is a VERY nice choice for the money and the performance. The only down fall is their weight at least for me. You will like their performance though!!!

Yeah I was looking at a different set of Nittos but then I saw I could get these for only 7 dollars more per tire so I'm going with them. They had slightly better reviews so I think it'll be worth it.

wilks are you going to be doing a sea level dyno before your next track days. curious to see the diff from altitude...

That's the plan. I'm going to be doing it on the same dyno I hit 418 on

Congrats on the runs either way. It takes more than money to go fast. It takes time and you'll get there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

good shit man.......

Has anyone on here used any aftermarket EBCS other then the grimmspeed with there big turbos? The grimmspeed failed with big turbo kits.

I'm using the aem tru boost, and it holds boost perfectly fine. The only thing I don't like about it is that you lose boost by gear. You might be able to just get a 3 port solenoid from aem and use that with the stock controller. It might be better

Cut it down to a 1.7 60ft you will be running 11s with no other changes. I have knocked off a full second from just learning how to drive, so don't get discouraged, keep at it and you will have elevens easy.

On the BT, I was launching at 4krpm and it was falling flat on it's face. At 4200, it was better. Next time out, I will try around 4600rpm or so. Since you have 2 step, start at 4400rpm or so (depends on how much boost, if any, it builds on the line). The launch characteristics of these cars on stock turbo vs. BT is totally different. You are doing your burnouts in 2nd gear, right? If you say no, that is a part of your problem. A tire spinning at 50mph for 5 seconds will heat up better than a tire spinning at 20mph for 10 seconds. Feel me?

He said he's bogging on the launch, which means he's launching too low. If he launches higher, which he should, he will spin, so to counter that, he needs to lower tire pressure.

Slip the clutch out (don't dump it, or you will get wheel hop then serious spin) at around 2700rpm or so, depending on track conditions. You want your tires to chirp slightly, but not fry on the launch. Lower your tire pressure to 25 to 28psi. Do your burnout quick, not a smokey one. Just like a 2 second burnout to kick the rocks off. Street tires will heat then glaze, making them slippery, if you burn out for a long time, which fucks up your 60 foot times. Bring a tire gauge. Remember to put air back in your tires when you leave the track.

Yeah, that was something I've got to look into. I haven't seen any of the tracks out here but I'm sure they have the capability to reinflate tires. (Last track I was at didn't) I know about the burnout and slipping the clutch. I'm glad you addressed the air pressure though because I was not sure about it. Also, are you saying that I should be revved to about 2700 rpm as I launch while slipping off the clutch? My first run with my 2010 MS3 was a 13.8. I'll pull out the timeslips and upload it. My reaction time was TERRIBLE!

I was launching at 4500 and that was too low. Next time I'm at the track, I'm gonna try 5k. If that doesn't work, I'll try 5300.

And yes... burnouts were second gear

Well, we need to set up a track day here soon! I really want to get my car to the track soon. Hopefully not to break anything. Good runs, but practice does make perfect. Car does have A LOT more in it!

Jarod we got a thread going in the NATOR MO.....I guess KCIR does Test n Tunes on Saturdays

I only got two videos of Dustin and/or Joel before my battery died. Hopefully they work, my camera and editing programs are fucking gay and don't get along. I posted a few more videos in the PHX meet thread.

Another thing; if they do have an air hose at the track, bump the rear tire pressure up to 50psi. Less rolling resistence.

Joel, when you say too low, does it spin tires for half a second, then fall flat on it's face, or just takes off slowly? Also, does it spin slicks in 2nd and 3rd?

Fuck, next time out, I may try the same shit. Just let the tires fry a little on the launch and see what happens.

Just watched your videos. The car sounds nasty!! I like it.

So yeah, your launches needs more revs. Does look like you're launching with not much behind it.

How does the LC on the AP work? Does it only let you set rpm, or can you make adjustments, such as retarding timing? I know in my Evo, on the AEM EMS, I can make those adjustments, and the thing will build 25psi at the line, and sounds like gun shots.

Dude it was great meeting you man. You and those tiny weiners at the irish pub cracked me up big time. I feel your pain at the track as well. It was my first time with my car there and I was getting good trap speeds for stock turbo at 102mph vs everyone else was like 97-99mph. I just couldnt break into 13's because of my poor launch abilities. Give us both a few more times at the track to figure out what we need to do and you'll be hitting your 11's and i'll be in the mid to low 13's :) Thanks again for the journey to AZ. Was great putting a face to the avatar :)

I was at 100-101 hooker! But you were the fastest I believe, I was the quickest :P We'll set up a meet some time. Hopefully by then I can stop the motor from dancing around in my engine bay and easily crack into the 13's. What were your best 60ft, best i managed was a 2.27

Just watched the vids. You are coming out of the hole way soft. I say quickly slip the clutch at 5-5.5K and let the big dog eat. Remember .1 at the 60' is usually worth .2 at the 1/4 stripe.

I was slipping the clutch pretty damn quick. On my last run, I straight dropped the clutch.

The issue is that I was bogging because I was launching at 4.5k

What boost were you holding at the line?

the run with you and dustin looked pretty damn clean man, car sound nasty too. kinda sounded like you short shifted a little between 1-2 maybe i dunno?

ps when are you getting your pussy?

So ok i seen dustin run so what time did he run? he looked really slow when he ran so where you just playing around?

dustin was at 35 psi wot POWER SHIFTING AND DOUBLE CLUTCHING..!! SPEED3'S USUALLY make 6's look that slow

He was trying to get his tune dialed in. He was also having some serious issues with spark blowout

Only like 2-3psi

Edit: Ugh.... That second video was one of my worst runs of the night. I didn't expect the tree to go until Dustin was up to the line, but it went regardless haha... That's why my launch was so horrible in that one.

the cool thing about the track that people forget a lot is that your time won't start until you actually move. Sometimes its nice to get a run, when you want to go, like a second or two after you see the lights go. Your reaction time will suck, but when youre trying to get a solid time, this is best way to do it, I think.

Yeah man. I knew that in the back of my head, but I kept forgetting about it because of noob jitters. Next time will be so much better.

you gotta hit 5th gear, so many shifts. you really gotta be on your game, and it seems like you pretty much were. powershifting is where its at though, it helps a lot.

damn cant wait till the track up here opens. ha not gonna be for a while though...