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 Old 12-07-2015, 05:01 AM   #201
 
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Are you certain of the coolant flow direction through turbo and PTO cooler? I was under the impression the flow was opposite; from PTO to turbo, but I don't remember why I thought that.
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 Old 12-07-2015, 09:20 PM   #202
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Yes. I am sure.
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 Old 12-08-2015, 05:32 AM   #203
 
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Thanks, Guess there's some re-piping in my future
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 Old 12-15-2015, 04:54 PM   #204

 
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Not nearly enough colors in those paint drawings to be full homo. Full homo would at least make the return lines from the radiators blue or add some damn arrows.

The way you have it drawn up, the coolant for the oem oil cooler (heater) passes first through the heater core? Useful knowledge if you need help it cool down, except I think there is an error as there is zero flow through the heater core if the heat is off, which would mean there was zero flow through the oil cooler.

As for full homo issues, as long as the return line from the ass cooler runs on the head side of the thermostat, there would be zero issue. If it was so cool that the thermostat wouldn't open, then that means the coolant going into the head is at an acceptable temperature. The return line direct from the thermostat and the return from the oil cooler are both on the head side of the thermostat plate, so I think you have zero issues. That return line from the manifold isn't really meant to flow, its basically a signal line, and the oil cooler loop is intended to flow at all times, regardless of the thermostat being open or closed.
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 Old 12-16-2015, 07:12 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Ziggo View Post

The way you have it drawn up, the coolant for the oem oil cooler (heater) passes first through the heater core? Useful knowledge if you need help it cool down, except I think there is an error as there is zero flow through the heater core if the heat is off, which would mean there was zero flow through the oil cooler.
When the heater core is of there is no flow through it.
When the heater core is of the coolant for the OEM oil cooler comes from the 3/8" hose on the EGR valve that goes to the turbo, from there to the T-case, and then from there Tees into to the heater return line. So there is very minimal flow through the OEM oil cooler. The coolant from the 3/8" port of the EGR valve is the only coolant that flows through the OEM oil cooler when the heater core is of/not flowing. This is the same for the MS3 with the exception that the MS3 does not have the T-case between the turbo exit port and the Tee on the heater return line.

When the heater core is on then the 5/8" line on the manifold starts flowing through the core, exits and meets the Tee intersection mentioned above where the 3/8" coolant line from the turbo + subsequent T-case meet. From there it's a straight shot to the OEM oil cooler and then the 5/8" port on the T-stat housing. Turning on the heater core increases flow through the OEM oil cooler immensely of course as now you have the full 5/8" line from the manifold going through it.

The T-case has 1/2" ports but both the turbo exit port and the Tee on the return line of the heater core have 3/8". The hose ID from the turbo to the T-case inlet port increases from 3/8" to 1/2" and the hose from the T-case exit port to the Tee on the heater return line decreases from 1/2" to 3/8".

Originally Posted by Ziggo View Post
As for full homo issues, as long as the return line from the ass cooler runs on the head side of the thermostat, there would be zero issue. If it was so cool that the thermostat wouldn't open, then that means the coolant going into the head is at an acceptable temperature. The return line direct from the thermostat and the return from the oil cooler are both on the head side of the thermostat plate, so I think you have zero issues. That return line from the manifold isn't really meant to flow, its basically a signal line, and the oil cooler loop is intended to flow at all times, regardless of the thermostat being open or closed.
Like I mentioned earlier I think you are wrong on the amount of coolant that goes through that "signal line". As explained when the heater core is of and the T-stat is closed, there is only coolant from the 3/8" port exiting the EGR valve + the flow from this 5/8" "signal line" going to the water pump. In other words the water pump is mostly pumping water from the signal line till the T-stat opens. Going by the good ol logic of fluids going the way of least resistance it would stand to reason that there is quite a lot of coolant that goes through the 5/8" "signal line" even when the T-stat is fully open. The way I see it the water pump can run without risk of chocking even at full engine RPM with the 5/8" signal line + the 3/8" EGR line alone.

I will try to improve my drawing for moar clear.
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 Old 12-16-2015, 08:23 AM   #206

 
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I wasn't saying anything about the amount through the signal line, but more it's purpose. It's intended to circulate behind the tstat so that when the coolant hot the tstat will see it. Else you end up with the problem you feared, with a bubble of cold coolant keeping the tstat closed. What I am saying is that if you set it up so that signal line is still intact you should be ok as the temperature and circulation through it would still allow the thermostat to operate like stock.
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 Old 12-27-2015, 08:00 AM   #207
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It is done.
But I am a lil suspicious.
Usually something fails or doesen't work as intended or I forget something. I must have used 20-30 clamps in total for all the connections + all the soldering of the copper tubing and there doesen't seem to be a single leak anywhere.

Coolant temps as measured by the stock sensor on the manifold by the head indicate a 15-20 degree temp drop about 6-8 seconds after opening the solenoid and engaging the pump. I installed individual switches for both but I think I will merge them into one. I already flipped the pump switch before the solenoid one by mistake and thats poo poo.

















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 Old 12-27-2015, 08:05 AM   #208
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Uhh I dont know that I would use copper tubing like that. Its so thin that if it flexes at all anywhere it will quickly fatigue and split. I would use plastic or rubber.
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 Old 12-27-2015, 08:11 AM   #209
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Are you shitting me?
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 Old 12-27-2015, 09:38 AM   #210
 
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Looks like he's gonna find out. Lol
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 Old 12-27-2015, 09:51 AM   #211
 
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Copper lines are used on the MR2 to go under the body to the heater core in the front and those usually have to be replaced due to stress on them. My car just has heater hose running the whole way now.
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 Old 12-27-2015, 11:30 AM   #212
 
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
It is done.
But I am a lil suspicious.
Usually something fails or doesen't work as intended or I forget something. I must have used 20-30 clamps in total for all the connections + all the soldering of the copper tubing and there doesen't seem to be a single leak anywhere.

Coolant temps as measured by the stock sensor on the manifold by the head indicate a 15-20 degree temp drop about 6-8 seconds after opening the solenoid and engaging the pump. I installed individual switches for both but I think I will merge them into one. I already flipped the pump switch before the solenoid one by mistake and thats poo poo.

















The riser in me couldn't resist taking out the parking reflectors and installing some mesh. For teh fastz you know. Thats what I am telling me self.




This is nuts.... Do you already have the sp63 fan controller? Pretty nice to see 8 degree drop. What if u left the system on all the time? I would guess coolant would stay to cold?
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 Old 12-27-2015, 11:43 AM   #213
 
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*******
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 Old 12-27-2015, 12:38 PM   #214
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
Don't quote the fucking pictures, asshole!!!!!!
You need to kick yourself in the dick for that last post.
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 Old 12-27-2015, 02:03 PM   #215
 
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Don't quote the fucking pictures, asshole!!!!!!

I knew someone would be happy about that.
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 Old 12-27-2015, 02:06 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
Are you shitting me?
Unfortunately im serious bunny today.

Also fucke everyone for quoting all the pictures.
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 Old 12-27-2015, 02:56 PM   #217
 
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Seriously @Code Monkey;, fix your post. Don't shit in this thread.
Edit: You too, @blackms3_71;.
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 Old 12-27-2015, 03:55 PM   #218
 
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Originally Posted by Enki View Post
Seriously @Code Monkey;, fix your post. Don't shit in this thread.
Edit: You too, @blackms3_71;.

I had asked serious questions. I forgot to delete the picture part of the quote. My apologies.
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 Old 12-27-2015, 04:14 PM   #219
 
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The initial temp drop is probably from all the cold water still in the rad/piping btw. I'm curious to see how it does open full time and daily driving around. With the tstat, the temp should still climb when sitting, but probably go up a bit slower.
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 Old 12-27-2015, 08:04 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by blackms3_71 View Post
This is nuts.... Do you already have the sp63 fan controller? Pretty nice to see 8 degree drop. What if u left the system on all the time? I would guess coolant would stay to cold?
I do have the SP63 controller my dear.
Why would I leave the system on all the time?


Originally Posted by Easter Bunny View Post
Unfortunately im serious bunny today.
I am not using hose or plastic tubing for pipes that are exposed to the underbody of the car. And the amount of cycles for that copper tubing to fatigue is pretty big.

Originally Posted by Enki View Post
Seriously @Code Monkey;, fix your post. Don't shit in this thread.
Edit: You too, @blackms3_71;.
I have a thing for people shitting on things so let them go at it. Thanks for your vigilance nevertheless.


Originally Posted by Enki View Post
The initial temp drop is probably from all the cold water still in the rad/piping btw. I'm curious to see how it does open full time and daily driving around. With the tstat, the temp should still climb when sitting, but probably go up a bit slower.
That is exactly what happens when sitting.
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 Old 12-27-2015, 08:08 PM   #221
 
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
I have a thing for people shitting on things so let them go at it.
*Triggering intensifies*
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 Old 12-27-2015, 08:18 PM   #222
 
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I just wanted to interject a hearty, warm thank you to @Tomas; for naming this thread appropriately so everytime I get a notification it says Dildo Blitz in large letters across my phone. Had a few people give me some odd looks over the holidays and I had some explaining to do. Awesome build so far though, man.
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 Old 12-28-2015, 05:22 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
I am not using hose or plastic tubing for pipes that are exposed to the underbody of the car. And the amount of cycles for that copper tubing to fatigue is pretty big.
Is it standard copper plumbing pipe or did I miss something? I have recently ripped all of the old hot water baseboard heating and associated copper plumbing out of the house. The shit is not that sturdy

You at least need to support the shit out of it like every 12 inches with one of those rubber lined clamps.
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 Old 12-28-2015, 05:35 AM   #224
 
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Did you have to ground the rear aux radiator or copper tubing due to the additional capacity, or is electrolysis not really a concern?

Either way nice job on everything!
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 Old 12-28-2015, 06:38 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Easter Bunny View Post
Is it standard copper plumbing pipe or did I miss something? I have recently ripped all of the old hot water baseboard heating and associated copper plumbing out of the house. The shit is not that sturdy

You at least need to support the shit out of it like every 12 inches with one of those rubber lined clamps.
The copper pipe is an ubotanium alloy washed with anti fatigue detergent and coated in fairy dust.
Yes its just home depot copper tubing.
No I don't think it needs to be secured every 12". It sits sturdy enough as is. If it fails then I guess I will learn my lesson the hard way but I have a little bit of experience on fatigue and creep induced failures from work and I am certain it will hold just fine till I get my SS checks in the mail.

As far as plastic tubing. See how Porsche fared with that on the Cayenne.

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin View Post
Did you have to ground the rear aux radiator or copper tubing due to the additional capacity, or is electrolysis not really a concern?

Either way nice job on everything!
The rad is not grounded. The copper tubing is.
The electrolysis could be a concern.
Guess may be I should measure it someday.

Originally Posted by ButtholeRedMS3 View Post
I just wanted to interject a hearty, warm thank you to @Tomas; for naming this thread appropriately so everytime I get a notification it says Dildo Blitz in large letters across my phone. Had a few people give me some odd looks over the holidays and I had some explaining to do. Awesome build so far though, man.
This is good to know.
My next build thread will be titled "How Does Your Anus Feel Today?" or "The Penicilin your ordered for your Chlamydia infection is ready for pick up"
I'd like to see you explain those.
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 Old 12-28-2015, 07:48 AM   #226
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Since we're using home building plumbing materials on the race car, here's one word

Pex

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-linked_polyethylene

That's gold Jerry.


and be done with it and rest assured no Cayenne type issues.

...or just plain ole heater hose.
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 Old 12-28-2015, 08:00 AM   #227
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Polyethylene or Polyvinyl. I would not use either on an automotive system.
Also keep in mind that the copper tubes provide additional heat dissipation.
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 Old 12-28-2015, 08:17 AM   #228
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fair enough...

although I don't have direct knowledge from the plumbing aspect of it, but I believe Pex is used in radiant heating systems as well as general plumbing applications. In those systems they use antifreeze which I would think is similar to an automotive application.

BTW, I could be completely wrong though

edit: propylene glycol for radiant heat systems.
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 Old 12-28-2015, 08:39 AM   #229
 
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Glanced through the Wikipedia article you posted on Pex @Dano;, it says that exposure to sunlight causes it to become brittle in as little as 30 days, tends to get eaten by a specific insect, and has some kind of issue with oxygen transportation through the surface (causes rust on iron parts if an oxygen barrier is not used).

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 Old 12-28-2015, 08:43 AM   #230
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I don't know what type of thermoplast Porsche used on the Cayenne. But it was probably something that was supposed to hold up pretty well.
And it didn't.
All Turbo Cayenne's got a recall to change the pipes over to aluminum.
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 Old 12-28-2015, 03:17 PM   #231
 
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Wow, cool craftsmanship and solutions as usual in my favorite thread. I support your selection of copper tubing. In K or L alloys it's pretty tough stuff. The joints would be the weak link imho and assume you used silver solder so that's also pretty tough.

One functional question though...how does the air flow through the radiator? All I see are the three small meshed holes and I can't imagine that's enough, even with the serious negative pressure behind the car at speed.

Looking forward to track results.
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 Old 12-29-2015, 06:37 AM   #232
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There isnt much airflow through the rear rad unfortunately. You are right those three holes aren't going to do that much but I didn't want to go full homo just yet with a full bumper diffuser like below. If I don't see enough of a temperature drop at the track then I can always drill more holes and install small fans. There is enough space between the rad and the bumper for some extractor type SPAL fans.

And yes, joints are silver soldered.



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 Old 12-29-2015, 08:40 AM   #233
 
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You consider getting the radiator coated with a heat rejection coating? Might be good for a degree or two.
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 Old 12-29-2015, 11:17 AM   #234
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Yeah. A few degree aren't gonna cut it.
If this does not work then more holes. Then fans. If still doesnt work than I wil get a bigger rad. Fluidyne makes one that will fit for about $450 or so.
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 Old 12-29-2015, 11:21 AM   #235
 
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With all that effort and money, just make your own v-mount setup....
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 Old 12-29-2015, 01:20 PM   #236
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yeah thats another option.
Or some type of shrouds.
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 Old 12-29-2015, 01:25 PM   #237
 
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Spray coolant directly on the radiator for more evaporative cooling.
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 Old 12-29-2015, 01:26 PM   #238
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or piss.
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 Old 12-29-2015, 02:17 PM   #239
 
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You could modify a penis pump to route pee to the rear radiator and make your track car smell like a porta-potty. You would also be lighter by a few grams with every lap, so win win.

Shrouding is probably the easiest. Get a flat sheet and bend it like a scoop to the floor, then seal off the sides, unless you're low enough to not get any air flow under the car at all. In which case you could maybe do some fancy side scoop on the driver side (at the risk of looking mexican as hell) to take advantage of all the available room that is still on that side of the rear radiator.
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 Old 12-29-2015, 08:15 PM   #240
 
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NACA ducts somewhere on the side and flex hose (like for cooling brakes) that goes to the shrouded radiator?
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